These parents were completely irresponsible in this case.

That poor little boy, dead when he should have lived.

K/R

I tried for 10 years to get conventional doctors to listen to me.. fired 3 of them before trying a naturapath. She figured it out after the first visit. She was a DDS for 20 years and now practices both. Obviously there are incompetent practitioners in both camps.

They have no business being in business.

Undiagnosed Hashimotos is a leading cause of heart failure, and it runs in families. I knew something was wrong but could i get them to believe me? Nope. Ive been on meds for less than a month and nearly half of my symptoms are completely gone, and the others are lessening. The State of Oregon apparently finds her qualified too, since they are paying the bills.

The reality is that naturopaths have no business messing with real people. You, of course, are free to let anecdotes drive you to bad decisions,

Also, what are the medicines, actually, I have a question, if its actually medicine that you can be prescribed, what the fuck is naturopathic about this doctor's practice? Or is it just a marketing gimmick, like "homeopathic" Arnica Montana ointment that's literally at no dilution.

Mine can prescribe anything. I chose Armour desiccated thyroid instead of the synthetic versions that conventional mds insist upon. Synthoid keeps you alive, but it doesnt help many of the most painful symptoms.
Along with the prescription, we have discussed diet and suppliments to boost thyroid function, reduce my antibody count and prevent further damage. First visit, 1 hr 45 minutes, 8 pages of questions. Second visit, 1 hour 15 minutes. Third visit, 30 minutes.

whether synthesized in a lab, or extracted from pigs its still the same molecule.

Maybe its the inactive ingredients you are reacting to? Or perhaps its a combination of the efficacy of the hormone combined with a placebo effect due to the belief that "natural" = "better".

Desicated thyroid contains t1, t2, t3 and t4. Synthetic versions of t3 show some improvement in thyroid function but only some endos prescribe it. Most go only on t4 results, and the scale they use is flawed.

It's a cheap byproduct of the slaughterhouse, thus the name "Armour" as in "Meats". It is freeze dried gland from pigs or sheep.

It's more bioactive than the synthetic T4 only synthroid which is expensive and makes more money for the drug companies.
Many people on thyroid extract prefer Armour even though the doctors are told to trash it in medical school. I know of no other hormone or drug where the M.D.s are TOLD it's inferior.

I've had Hashimoto's disease since I was a pre-adolescent. It can kill you if you are taken off of thyroid. You die without thyroid extract eventually. I almost went into a myxedema coma years ago after an idiot internist in San Antonio took me OFF thyroid because I was having blood sugar problems. I had osteoporosis and 20 times too much Calcium in my hair, because my body was not using the calcium and putting it in my bones. This was from several years of no thyroid extract.

Back in the 1970s I had a board-certified endocrinologist give me the standard rant about "Armour Thyroid isn't good, the dosage isn't consistent, you don't know how much of the active ingredients you will get."

I said, "I read the label. It says 'Biologically assayed, United States Pharmacopoeia'. That is a private company that tests drugs for potency, dosage and consistency.

After my one sentence, he shut up. And that was about 40 years ago.

More information about the fat, tired, miserable women who are sick of arguing with their doctors:

www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://thyroid.about.com

Anything by Mary Shomon. She seems to be the leading patient activist for testing and asking questions of your doctors instead of just taking their word for it when they said "Your TSH level is fine so it must be in your head and I'll give you antidepressants."

I have never gone to a naturopath, BTW. The doctor who put me back on thyroid when he said I was the closest to a myxedema coma of any patient he had ever seen was a pathologist, a nutritionist and an osteopath.

doctor practice.

They encourage the use of bullshit such as homeopathy and acupuncture.

Children cannot do that. If you make the wrong decisions for yourself, you are responsible for them. If you make the wrong decisions for a child, you are responsible for that, too. That's the difference here. If a child dies because his or her parents refuse to seek competent medical attention, they should be liable for their mistake. Increasingly, that is becoming the case, thank goodness.

You simply cannot respect individual rights and beliefs without...respecting individual rights and beliefs. At the same time, the parents had a legal duty to seek proper medical care for their child that transcended their personal beliefs. IMO, this child died not because naturopathic remedies are legal but because people and their world are imperfect. Tragedy happens.

There is no justification for allowing the practice of fake health care.

not fake at all, but it may be less effective in some situations and very inappropriate in others. Some is practiced in hospitals by physicians, like senna that was used as a laxative many centuries before it was approved by the FDA.

Just like mainstream treatments, practitioners are required to apply them appropriately. I haven't read the article, but if a practitioner were involved in the actually medical decision-making, that person would likely be going to prison, and perhaps the parents. That's the way it works.

You may not realize it, but your statement is incompatible with democracy and government of, by, and for the people. When absolutist authoritarian and fascist governments democratize, they throw off that thinking and accept that society must allow many belief systems. Typically, those many belief systems were never totally suppressed and merely continued illegally underground, resulting in many, many dreadful tragedies.

Most of it is complete hogwash. The things that aren't hogwash are provided by science-based providers, despite alt-med propaganda to the contrary.

Snake oil is snake oil. It hurts people. It needs to be banned.

... And hurt people is ridiculous.

nonauthoritarians. Do not mistake the rigidity conviction of absolutism for high principle. They are very different things.

The rest of your arguments are all aimed at allowing people to be harmed. If you're a Libertarian, acknowledge it. If you're not, well, there are some serious problems with your advocacy.

There's a huge gray area in between where those who of us enjoy killing innocent babies dwell.

What I explained initially was that the laws you want are already on the books. If they are flawed in some way that facilitated this death, or getting away with causing it, then this case will probably encourage fixing them.

Science is our friend. Ignoring it, and feigning it, causes harm.

You appear to be advocating for unethical snake oil practitioners.

You either have to stop doing so, or acknowledge what you're doing.

Talking about grey doesn't change reality.

shelf about the physical and chemical properties of water. I purchased it when I was 15. It is possible to admire and respect science tremendously and also admire and respect democracy, equality, and individual freedoms as well.

And yes, most reality exists in various shades of gray (I'm American), not just black OR white, but lots of grays all at the same time.

You want democracy to subvert science.

it seems clear from your description of what I "want" that you have no idea what you would be suppressing, or any interest in it.

This is why people have to keep an eye out for extremism in politics. It's never gone, some people always feel the need to force everyone else into conformity with their thoughts, their first step to twist and misinterpret in order to villainize those who don't fall in line with them -- for everyone's good of course.

Democracy cannot exist in a world here ignorance and lies reign.

ignorant democratic individuals. I didn't know your name before HuckleB because I'm horrible with names, but I think I might remember you in future.

I don't have to know you to know, though, that if you vote for one of the two Democratic candidates, and not for an authoritarian conservative, your person will be Bernie. I believe I've seen a streak of authoritarianism in him too, and of course, to me, a very unfortunate streak of rigid, intolerant extremism.

You are tossing sophistry out in a really lame attempt to justify the unjustifiable. Look, if you're into this scene, I'm sorry, but you can't justify nonsense with words, no matter how cool they seem.

And I felt quite sure I'd guessed right based on your views in this thread -- even though none of them touched on his main themes, or mentioned him -- or Hillary. Passing up an opportunity to villify her, come to think of it, probably should have been taken as a clue that I was wrong.

You really don't understand this, do you?

are attracted to Bernie and his message, I apologize. Have a nice evening.

No wonder you're responses make no sense.

Shouldn't people be protected from medical fraud?

How does either relate to totaltarianism?

And as Jay Novella might say, get a bowl, a spoon, and some milk because naturopaths are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

The child died of Hib meningitis, which is caused by the Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) bacteria -- and there's a very effective vaccine for it.