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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDNC head challenged by faith leaders over exploitative payday lending
Several Cooperative Baptist Fellowship ministers were among 36 faith leaders sending an open letter March 17 taking the chair of the Democratic National Committee to task for resisting attempts by the Obama administration to rein in abuses in payday lending.
The clergy asked Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) to support rules being drafted by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to crack down on abusive payday lending.
The Bible expressly forbids excessive interest and warns us not to exploit the poor because they are poor (Proverbs 22:22), the faith leaders said. With its average 400 percent interest rate, payday lending is the very definition of exploitation.
The clergy said exploiting the poor is the very business model of payday lending, in which money is made by lending amounts that a borrower cannot pay back in time unless they take out another loan, and then another, and so forth.
Each loan comes with an astronomical interest rate that eats an ever‐bigger hole in the borrowers budget, they said. We call this the debt trap. It is intentional. It is not moral. It should not be legal.
more
https://baptistnews.com/2016/03/18/dnc-head-challenged-by-faith-leaders-over-exploitative-payday-lending/
djean111
(14,255 posts)a DINO, voting with and campaigning for and supporting her GOP cronies, at last. About time.
NCjack
(10,279 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 21, 2016, 10:27 AM - Edit history (1)
issue. Her brain says "keep it and accept the pain."
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)Thinking DWS or the DNC give a rat's tit for the welfare of the American people.
TheBlackAdder
(28,211 posts)PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)whats wrong with it's ass? only time that word is used properly is when it's used to describe the mouse button on the keyboard of a laptop X_X yes thats what Dell told me it was called . They are like hey it looks like one
hereforthevoting
(241 posts)At least it shouldn't but I am sure this is one of that many offenses that could just be swept under the rug by people who prefer that technique.
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)hereforthevoting
(241 posts)MidwestTech
(170 posts)this would have helped as late as 2 months ago... but now...
we'll see how things land.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Seriously?
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)but I am not going to take the Word of a group that supports open carry in Church as the Gospel as this article implies
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)When you attack the messenger, you are de facto defending the attacked. Instead of your weak response, you could have stated that although you dislike the group, DWS is wrong on this and deserves to be called out on it. But no.
It isn't too difficult to find plenty of other sources showing DWS's disgusting position on this issue.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)Questionling the source of information does fit ur logic. interesting
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Your post was a classic ad hominem defense of Schultz. By logical inference you supported her position on payday loans.
Ad Hominem: "an attack on an argument made by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, rather than attacking the argument directly. When used inappropriately, it is a logical fallacy in which a claim or argument is dismissed on the basis of some irrelevant fact or supposition about the author or the person being criticized"
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)what i wrote..... [more slowly] I question the source since they support open carry in Church.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Everyone got your message. It has NOTHING to do with payday loans, which at this point it is clear you support.
There are other sources on this issue, which you choose to ignore. You've had ample opportunity is this discussion to denounce Schultz's position, which you have not.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)[even more slowly] I question the source of info that supports open carry in Churches ~nothing more nothing less
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)And you cannot bring yourself to admit Schultz is wrong on this issue.
I actually feel sorry for you. Your partisanship has frozen your brain to the point where you have no moral compass.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)I didnt state any opinion either way on the right or wrong of Schultz. but feel free to make up what u think I think. and I surely dont feel the need to lecture other people i dont know on their moral compass but dont let me interrupt.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)Your camouflage was weak. When you try to defend DWS and her actions in support of legal loan sharks, that's when you "jumped" one. DWS would be much more at home with the RNC. Over there, they LOVE ripping off the disenfranchised - especially if they get recompense for doing so!
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)I dont consider Baptist News.com a good source of info abt anything or anybody. If u do thats ok with me. but I dont need u to tell my what u think Im thinking. but thz anyway.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)http://www.salon.com/2016/03/01/dnc_chair_debbie_wasserman_schultz_joins_hands_with_gop_in_assault_on_elizabeth_warrens_consumer_protection_agency/
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a42611/debbie-wasserman-schultz-resign/
these folks are not exactly right wing.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)I only stated I dont think BaptistNews.com is good source of info....I didn say anything abt huff, salon or esquire. nor anything abt Wasserman one way or another. Whats ur point?
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)Debbie is being rightfully condemned or supporting people that do the sort of lending that used to be a crime, and that Debbie will thus make it easier to attack her friend Hillary. Then again, obviously epople other than ther Baptists were abkle to make thyat connection.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)noamnety
(20,234 posts)People are wondering why your immediate and only concern is who the church leaders are, and why you are eerily silent on the issue being discussed: the DNC chair's defense of payday loans.
In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)Here, lemmee fix it so even YOU can see it.....
Here's the OP's header: "DNC head challenged by faith leaders over exploitative payday lending". But THEN..... we remove just three words that you seem fixated over - these three right here-> by faith leaders There! Now you employ your crypto-sensic insights to see the crux of the matter with Ms. Schultz and her advocating for the disadvantaged to be swindled by greedy scum - no matter WHO has made the damning allegations.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)I said I dont think BaptistNews.org is a good source of info..... still believe that. but hang in there talking to urself.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)Do you believe your sig line? Seems contrary to your stance.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)BaptistNewOrg is not a good source of info.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)You're SO Right. I should have realized from the get go that your view is the only view. Thanks for making me smarter!
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)but u havent even challenging my opinion that BaptistNewsOrg is not a good source of info. u have been talking to urself abt things that I never stated or commented on.
Jemmons
(711 posts)of how people respond.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)spell "group" and "churches" tho.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You've been given multiple confirming sources on this, and you're still trying to have an argument. Why?
Human101948
(3,457 posts)You are just creating a distraction from the deplorable actions of Hillary's BFF.
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)EITHER, the poster did not read the site (because they do not support open carry),
OR, the poster did read the site, and is just lying about their positions.
The poster keeps doubling down on a false claim--one that is easily refuted by clicking a simple link and skimming a bit.
Just so you know what you're dealing with. Even if the poster's argument were formally valid (which it's not, it's an ad hominem fallacy), it would still be unsound, because of the false premise employed.
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)You OBVIOUSLY didn't read the site... even though you claim you did.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)Here are the first three paragraphs of the article you're talking about:
https://baptistnews.com/2016/03/21/packing-in-the-pews/
Jim Coston, senior pastor of Calvary Baptist Church in Waco, Texas, is still planning to use his guns.
He lives outside the city and wants to protect his goats and chickens, and firearms greatly diminish a wild predators return on investment when it comes to killing livestock and poultry.
The place that Coston isnt taking his firearms is church.
Church leaders around Texas are no surprise under the impression that an openly displayed handgun doesnt promote a worshipful environment.
----------
Yeah, they're grinding that axe, aren't they??
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)Originating in our thirst for blood, the death penalty represents a failure to love. I dont think its a coincidence that the highest executing states in our nation all have heavily Christian populations. Deadly theology leads to deadly practice. The death penalty is based on an idea that blood is required to atone for evil. We are carrying out an ancient ritual of atonement every time the state kills for us. The problem is that this denies any belief that Jesus is the atonement. God didnt kill Jesus. The love of Jesus is what took him to the cross. The atonement is love. How can we love and kill at the same time? We cant. Every time we carry out one of these executions we deny the love of Jesus. The death penalty has made us heretics. We are desperately in need of salvation.
Here in Texas, we are reenacting Holy Week. The only difference is that Adam Ward, whose execution is scheduled for today in Huntsville, Texas, is not Jesus. We are letting Ward say goodbye to his friends. We are giving Ward his final meal. We are leading Ward to the place. We are forcing Ward to climb up. We are making Ward extend his arms. We are forcing metal to pierce Wards skin. We are pumping poison into Wards veins. We are murderers. There is no question that Ward murdered City of Commerce Code Enforcement Officer Michael Pee Wee Walker in 2005. There is also no question that we are about to do the same thing.
Yeah, every one of those guys is Ted Cruz! Because, well, Baptists!
Marr
(20,317 posts)They're for whatever makes party leaders look good at any given moment, and against whatever makes them look bad. The issues are just props. The only important element on the stage is their adored actors.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Brother_Love
(82 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)to consider. Suffice it to say, you and the others are correct.
astrophuss42
(290 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)the Baptist News .com ,,,, seems they have a problem with info like most right wing groups,,,,,they didnt even quote the bible correctly- the bible condemns charging any interest not to mention who did what when and where.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)or an "approved messenger" to get what Usary is. It is also in the Bible...guess that's not good enough for you either. Jesus had much to say about the rich. I'll not elaborate, but most know His Words about that. Oh right, the Faith Leaders quoted Him.
No plausible defense regardless of "Who" happened to get the message out.
Disclaimer: I have had 2 of those nasty things in times when in need. They are the Superpredators.
Ilsa
(61,696 posts)Of payday lending. They aren't right about everything, but they aren't wrong on everything ,too, just because they are wrong on open-carry.
Their rationale on payday lending comports with their beliefs and what their Bible tells them. They believe it is wrong to legally permit them the ability to overcharge and exploit poor people in debt.
Why the black-and-white thinking, or are you a payday lender?
annabanana
(52,791 posts)Unpacking the devices of rhetoric is hugely useful. (no snark)
Marr
(20,317 posts)You're trying to undermine the argument by attacking the person who said it.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)my opinion that I question the source of info from any group that supports Open Carry in Church...... nothing more and nothing less. But if u feel the need to add more to my opinion , go for it.
Marr
(20,317 posts)You dismissed their very simple statement on the nature of the payday loan industry. It's all about high interest rate, short term loans to poor people. That's like saying the sky is blue.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)just stated my opinion that BaptistNewsOrg is not a good source of info. I said nothing about payday loans. U r reading what u want to read into it.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Last I checked Excluded Middle was still a fallacy, not a valid syllogism.
Don't quit your day job.
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)I doubt *he* supports open carry in churches.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)....and frankly, it looks pretty damn progressive for a Baptist web site.
Headlines include:
"Packing in the Pews" (which is a news story, but features a big graphic of a gun with a slash through it on the page--HARDLY the sort of presentation that leaves one with the impression that they're advocating for guns in churches)
"End US Embargo on Cuba, faith leaders tell Congress"
"NCAA won't divest from schools that discriminate"
"When religion turns hateful, it loses its moral voice" (opinion piece)
....plus lots of stuff that has more to do with religion.
Did YOU read the web site? Because it looks to me like you just assumed all Baptists are right-wingers and threw your hands up.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)yep Fair and Balanced,,,,, Great Source of the Truth.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)So this misguided group of bible thumpers is WRONG to call out Debbie and her support of the PayDay lending leeches??? I mean, this is what you're TRYING (so poorly, I might add) to convey. See, even tho you may not like the source, there's MANY other groups and notable individuals who are saying the SAME things about Ms. Schultz and her "progressive" ideas about legal loan sharking.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)the group was wrong,,, or right.... only stated my opinion that I dont consider them to be a good source of info. {about anything}, Thats it no more no less but feel free to urself u get the urge, but i dont need u to lecture me on what u think im thinking abt anything.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)really care what happens to the poor. The Payday Loan Sharks pay the Conservative Democrats like DINO Debbie quite well. It's all about supporting the biggest bully.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)lecture people about what I think they should b saying or their moral compass. I made a statement about BaptistNews.com com not being a good source of info abt anything or anybody. thats my opinion whether u like it or not, i dont care.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)telling us your position on Pay Day Loan Sharks. I guess you support whatever positions Clinton, DINO Debbie and the Party Elite say and the hell with the consequences. This is a class war and DINO Debbie would be on the side opposite the People. The Pay Day Loan Sharks will pay her well. It's the graft and corruption that millions have come out to fight against.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)I made a comment about the info source of the OP,,,,, period.....
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)commit to a stand on the issues. Like fracking, the TPP, college tuition, medical marijuana (by the way, I think it's immoral to deny people in pain medical marijuana. But empathy isn't a strong suit for those that revere money and wealth). How do you feel about the death penalty. Let me guess on that one. You support Clinton's stand on the death penalty. We must be tough to hell with the consequences. How about the Patriot Act? Domestic spying? Indefinite Detention and habeus corpus?
Forgive me asking these rhetorical questions when I know fully well that you and other Clinton supporters support her positions on everything, and when she changes her position, you go along with that too.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)easy because you have all the money and media. But we will do it. We must do something about the 16,000,000 children living in poverty that you guys somehow can ignore in favor of the Clintons amassing a huge wealth.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)How do u know so much ?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)be a little empathetic. They lost their home. I also have family members that even with college educations, they can't find work other than min wage. My best friend lost all of his retirement do to the greed of the wealthy that you seem to revere so much. He has a bad knee and can't work and has zero retirement. He relies on Social Security and Medicare, programs that your wealthy idols want badly to privatize. I spend time working at a foodbank where the donations have dried up because we only get donations from people in the working class and they are strapped. Not that any of your rich and wealthy idols would help us out.
How many of our families are you willing to see die or get wounded in the middle east wars that Clinton loves so much. The neocons have endorsed her. How much of our resources are you willing to let the billionaires loot before you care? There are 16,000,000 children living in abject poverty with another 16,000,000 living in low income homes. Wake the frack up. Goldman-Sachs and those that support Clinton would have her ignore the poverty and help them deregulate continue looting the lower classes.
It's really not hard to figure out that the Wealthy 1%, including the Clintons with their ill gotten $150,000,000, get their wealth by looting the lower classes. People are literally dying do to the growing, GROWING wealth gap that you want to ignore.
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)Do you support payday lending or not ?
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)No I dont support payday lending. I dont support lending of any kind if interest is charged. ...
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)And here's an example (in addition to two I posted above) of their extreme right-wing rhetoric, pulled from an opinion piece:
https://baptistnews.com/2016/03/14/when-religion-turns-hateful-it-loses-its-moral-voice/
In this craziest of presidential primary seasons, I have not mentioned the Republican candidate with the best plumage, the colorful description offered by Marilynne Robinson. I have found his words so offensive, his narcissism so egregious, and his attitude toward others so despicable. I have not wanted to draw further attention to this headline-grabbing vortex, so he shall remain nameless. (It is unlikely that he could fire a seminary president, anyway.) Nonetheless, I cannot keep silent about his uncontrolled depiction of the worlds fastest growing religion or about his mocking use of Christianity for political gain.
The statement Islam hates us during CNNs recent debate is one more example of his pattern of reckless speech; it only serves to foment alienation for American Muslims and recruitment opportunity for radical Islamic groups. We must see this statement for what it is: a dangerous pandering to the most exclusivist understandings of Christianity. It also stokes fear in the U.S. Jewish community, given the close ties with Israel. [...]
------------
The poster you're replying to is being completely dishonest. It's quite possible that there are opinions on their site I'd disagree with too, but he's pretending that because they're Baptists, they must be agitating for guns in churches, and THEN pretending that that discredits their criticism of DWS. It's completely disingenuous.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)1% that think their schite don't stink and they get whatever they want and they want the resources of the lower classes.
Why do people side with the Big Money? Just like on the school ground, they get behind the biggest bully and think they are tough.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I get that you have to defend what DWS does 'cause Hillary but loan sharks suck.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)isn't it? The TPP will kill our working force and the Conservative Wing will celebrate. Fracking will ruin our water supplies and the Conservative Wing will celebrate.
840high
(17,196 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)baptistNewsOrg is not a good source of info.
markpkessinger
(8,401 posts)... I see that they are reporting on the issue in a Baptist context, and there are certainly Baptist congregations that do advocate open carry. Given Baptist beliefs about the freedom of individual baptist churches to determine for themselves the policies they will embrace with regard to matters such as this, it is to be expected that Baptists will hold a range of views on this topic. And one would expect that a service reporting news of interest to and for Baptists would cover the range of opinions Baptists hold on the subject.
Nor do I find any evidence that the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship -- a group of moderate Baptists -- has taken a position on the issue.
But, even if either BaptistNews.org or the CBF taken a position, does the fact that they may hold an opinion that you -- and I suspect most of us -- strongly disagree with automatically render them a bad source of other information? Are you suggesting they are akin to a site like WorldNetDaily, or other similar sites, that have a notorious track record of publishing wildly false and distorted news stories?
beerandjesus
(1,301 posts)...so much so, in fact, that I've bookmarked it. (And for the record, I don't consider myself a Christian, let alone a Baptist.)
It's nice to have found a place where I can find a reasonable religious voice, a pleasant contrast with the right-wing extremism that garners the media attention. I wish all religious publications were as concerned with the public good as the CBF seems to be--the previous poster's slander notwithstanding.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)that I stated,
rateyes
(17,438 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,753 posts)A right-wing voter block has come out to remind a politician of their responsibilities to the poor.
Ouch! That's gotta hurt.
hereforthevoting
(241 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,727 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)so then it is no surprise that they stand with the poor. Don't forget the Dr. King was a Baptist minister.
I think it is interesting that they used the one old testament regulation that is also used in Judaism. Usury.
Left Coast2020
(2,397 posts)Given her support of pay-day lenders I don't doubt it one bit. And thats not from just a single post, but several.
NCjack
(10,279 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)Thanks for the thread, n2doc.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Hell, I figured that out decades ago--- on my own.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)Understandable that this is the direction.
MidwestTech
(170 posts)Dude got all old school up in there!
Honestly on this issue I will take any and all allies that can be found.
pay-day loans are the mob legalized. it's disgusting!
This is only more proof that Bernie's ideas are the way to go.
Let the Post Office offer basic banking services like most countries do!
why are we so proud to lag behind progress anyway?
annabanana
(52,791 posts)mountain grammy
(26,642 posts)The payday lenders are thieves, making our parishioners even poorer and our donations are down. It's just not trickling down like it's supposed to.
Everyone robs the poor, but these payday lenders are especially evil.. I've bailed a few friends out of their clutches. Just do the right thing, Debbie, because it's the right thing to do.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Prisons for Profit.
'Cause ya know...that's so much better.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Dr. Strange
(25,921 posts)So much sad truth.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)I'm all for them trying to act more Christian. They have a long way to go.
George II
(67,782 posts)On this "issue", she is a Congresswoman, not the DNC head! The DNC isn't drafting the rules, CONGRESS is drafting the rules.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)George II
(67,782 posts).....on the books.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)Obviously you don't like anyone posting anything that might disparage DWS. Why is that, pray tell?
TipTok
(2,474 posts)The letter after her names doesn't excuse her from the responsibility to be a quality leader.
This is just a drop in the ocean of dirty tricks and bad decisions by DWS.
George II
(67,782 posts).....how is this a "dirty trick"?
TipTok
(2,474 posts)Call it what you want
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....immediately draw conclusions.
It would pay to read the article.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)we know she is on the side of the payday lenders, along with the GOP.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)Because she is not helping OUR party.
Pretty simple.
Blind allegiance...gotta love it.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)from now on all pulpits and exegetic material will have to be vetted by some glaze-eyed DNC intern first
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)We need to start primarying the Corporate "Dems"
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)spanone
(135,857 posts)Initech
(100,097 posts)Maybe now "faith leaders" might start agreeing with me?
ashling
(25,771 posts)25 Little Debbie as chairperson of the Democratic National Committee do to her conflicts-of-interest yada yada yada
Skittles
(153,174 posts)now THAT is rich
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Left Coast2020
(2,397 posts)Exploiting the poor is okay if it means a cushy job in a Clinton administration.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)I agree with the faith leaders, naturally, but the best thing all of us can do is support Tim Canova, DWS' primary challenger. He has a real shot at defeating her in the primary, especially if Sanders is the presidential nominee.
I have donated to his campaign more than once, most recently in his effort to obtain his rightful access to the party's voter file.
http://TimCanova.com
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)The whole dem party is corrupt. I see it more and more.