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“Fuck every cause that ends in murder and children crying.” -- Iain Banks. nt (Original Post) villager Mar 2016 OP
Agree. Including the sociopathy known as capitalism. eom Mika Mar 2016 #1
What I like about the Banks quote is that there are no exemptions. That usually gets "grown-ups" villager Mar 2016 #2
The operative word in that quote is "murder". nt Nitram Mar 2016 #3
...though death's connection to "children crying" is equally important villager Mar 2016 #4
Ah, but the children crying could be yours or theirs even if you are acting in self-defense. Nitram Mar 2016 #5
And you are exactly the type of person on whom Banks' quote is lost. Because *those kids over there* villager Mar 2016 #6
So you know who I am, and in what I believe? Nitram Mar 2016 #12
And I will take Iain Banks' "shoddy" writing over your internet postings any day of the year villager Mar 2016 #14
Perhaps because it's part of a novel, and the character may be faced muriel_volestrangler Mar 2016 #17
+1 villager Mar 2016 #22
It's not murder if a government does it Fumesucker Mar 2016 #23
I miss Banks muriel_volestrangler Mar 2016 #7
Always the wrong ones go early. The "cosmic lists" seemed to have been put... villager Mar 2016 #8
The cosmic lists in the wrong baskets? Nitram Mar 2016 #13
Likewise. Lizzie Poppet Mar 2016 #15
K&R Solly Mack Mar 2016 #9
hawkishness and proxy forces in the name of liberalism, I might add MisterP Mar 2016 #10
The quote certainly includes Clinton, but doesn't single her out beastie boy Mar 2016 #16
well kne jerking and blaming Belgium (sp) PatrynXX Mar 2016 #21
If you mean Special Circumstances ... I think they have the opposite effect. eppur_se_muova Mar 2016 #24
I know of no "isms" that dont fall into that web! Cryptoad Mar 2016 #11
Loved every one of Banks novels... N_E_1 for Tennis Mar 2016 #18
that Ian M Banks or another PatrynXX Mar 2016 #19
+10000000000000000000000000000000000 Initech Mar 2016 #20
One of my favorite authors. Odin2005 Mar 2016 #25
Many causes end in that mythology Mar 2016 #26
You're not talking about 'causes', though - just tactical decisions muriel_volestrangler Mar 2016 #28
+1 villager Mar 2016 #29
K&R Warren DeMontague Mar 2016 #27
Empire Octafish Mar 2016 #30
 

villager

(26,001 posts)
2. What I like about the Banks quote is that there are no exemptions. That usually gets "grown-ups"
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 12:46 PM
Mar 2016

....somewhere hemming and hawing about their own exceptions....

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
4. ...though death's connection to "children crying" is equally important
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:17 PM
Mar 2016

...to what Banks was saying, and the tendency of adults to rationalize their own "necessary" killing.

Nitram

(22,800 posts)
5. Ah, but the children crying could be yours or theirs even if you are acting in self-defense.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:22 PM
Mar 2016

It is a gratuitous addition, like a photo of a cute puppy. Children cry during thunderstorms or when they skin their knee.

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
6. And you are exactly the type of person on whom Banks' quote is lost. Because *those kids over there*
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:24 PM
Mar 2016

...can certainly suffer through your dropped bombs, after all.

Nitram

(22,800 posts)
12. So you know who I am, and in what I believe?
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:41 PM
Mar 2016

Why not stop with the murder part? Why muddy the picture with children crying? I can see you are either unable or unwilling to think very deeply about your beliefs if you can hitch them to such a shoddy vehicle.

 

villager

(26,001 posts)
14. And I will take Iain Banks' "shoddy" writing over your internet postings any day of the year
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 02:03 PM
Mar 2016

..any second of the century.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,314 posts)
7. I miss Banks
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:27 PM
Mar 2016


There was much more wisdom to come from him. At least he knew how much the world appreciated him.

beastie boy

(9,338 posts)
16. The quote certainly includes Clinton, but doesn't single her out
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 02:21 PM
Mar 2016

Neither should you if you want to be fair to Banks.

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
21. well kne jerking and blaming Belgium (sp)
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 03:13 PM
Mar 2016

for intelligence fails while having them on the run does cause some concern

zzzz anyone else terrrorist by the daesh yawn. this is why Obama goes to Baseball game. He doesn't play the game of terrorism , wouldn't say ignores it but he doesn't play it.

eppur_se_muova

(36,262 posts)
24. If you mean Special Circumstances ... I think they have the opposite effect.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 10:31 PM
Mar 2016

SC protects The Culture against existential threats of mind-boggling gravity, for the greater good of all.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
26. Many causes end in that
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:34 AM
Mar 2016

For example, doing nothing in Rwanda resulted in hundreds of thousands being murdered and countless others being subjected to rape as a weapon of war because it was decided that doing nothing was the best way to avoid a repeat of the Battle of Mogadishu.

How many people died in concentration camps because the Allied forces decided to not bomb the railroad tracks leading to the concentration camps in the name of trying to end the war faster? Thousands died on the beaches of Normandy because it was decided that was the best way to retake Europe. Were the Allied generals right? I have no idea. But the thousands who died on those beaches aren't any less dead. Their families didn't suffer any less grief.

It's easy to say something as simplistic as "fuck any cause that ends in murder and children crying" and mistake it for being profound. But when you have to take that simplistic moral thinking into the real world, you realize that the consequences of a desire for peace, can often lead to disastrous results. Any action (including inaction) leads to outcomes. Some good, some bad. The best you can realistically hope for is that the good outweighs the bad, but we all work with imperfect information and can't accurately predict the results because we can't always know how other actors will respond.



muriel_volestrangler

(101,314 posts)
28. You're not talking about 'causes', though - just tactical decisions
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:13 AM
Mar 2016

There is a fundamental difference. The 'cause' in Rwanda was the genocide, not the non-intervention. The cause in the concentration camps was, again, genocide. And yesterday's 'cause' was ISIS's desire to create a caliphate through violence (and, arguably, they think they can bring about Armageddon).

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