General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThese vitamin-fortified bananas might get you thinking differently about GMOs
[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:-1px -1px 3px #999999 inset;"]In the winter of 2014, students at Iowa State University received emails asking them to volunteer for an experiment. Researchers were looking for women who would eat bananas that had been genetically engineered to produce extra carotenes, the yellow-orange nutrients that take their name from carrots. Our bodies use alpha and beta carotenes to make retinol, better known as vitamin A, and the experiment was testing how much of the carotenes in the bananas would transform to vitamin A. The researchers were part of an international team trying to end vitamin A deficiency.
The emails reached the volunteers they needed to begin the experiment, but they also reached protesters. "As a student in the sustainability program, I immediately started asking questions," said Iowa State postdoc Rivka Fidel. "Is this proven safe? Have they considered the broader cultural and economic issues?"
Fidel and a group of six other alarmed students began asking the researchers and the school administration to publicly answer questions about the experiment. They started showing up at events bearing a petition with their list of questions. Sometimes one of them would dress up as a banana.
http://www.vox.com/2016/3/30/11318252/gmo-bananas-vitamin
Thought I'd throw this in the mix. In addition, its really fucking infuriating that activists are using fearmongering to try to prevent scientists from fucking helping people from not dying.
Also, to nip it in the bud, no, you can't have them grow fucking carrots. Carrots are a cold weather crop.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Why the fuck do people keep bringing them up?
Nailzberg
(4,610 posts)Or something like that. I could have heard wrong.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)no connection to it, at all. Makes no sense.
Also, while there are plenty of valid criticisms of the actions of Monsanto as a corporation over the past century or so, but a lot of it is so goddamned over the top as to be comical. Apparently they are the most evil of evil corporations, even above death squad Coca-Cola or Dole.
Nailzberg
(4,610 posts)But there is no way to have an honest discussion, to craft effective policy, when there is this dishonest boogeyman argument out that always gets thrown in as the first card out of one side's hand.
And its not just biotech that we see this in, this tactic stifles debate in many areas. And as a progressive, I want to make progress on things. I'm smart, I want smart people to sit around and talk about things, not tell ghost stories.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)They have no knowledge of sciency stuff and just want to fear everything with genes.
Labeling "GMO"s means slapping that label on just about every food product that exists.
Labeling "Round-Up Ready" crops seems to be what people want, so why not create legislation to do that, rather than slap a meaningless "GMO" label on everything?
The best analogy I can think of is requiring every house with a dog to have a warning label that one could be licked to death, when it is only Golden Retrievers that could actually do it.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Doing so would have the effect of educating the otherwise ignorant consumers that "Organic" doesn't mean 'no-pesticides'.
So Far From Heaven
(354 posts)the producer cannot use commercial chemical based herbicides or insecticides.
I just really wonder, 'what's the difference?'
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)§205.603 Synthetic substances allowed for use in organic livestock production.
Actually it's not that hard to believe once you understand "organic" doesn't really mean organic and is actually only a marketing term that's managed under the USDA's Agriculture Marketing Service. Ironically this is the same branch of the USDA that manages plant intellectual property rights the anti-GMO crowd would have you believe is evil.
"What's the difference" is actually a pretty good question. As demonstrated above, often there is no difference. What differences there are usually entail appeal to nature fallacies that favor "natural" remedies that are often untested for health or environmental impacts, vs conventionally approved products that must undergo strict guidelines for approval and application under federal and state oversight.
So Far From Heaven
(354 posts)This may be why the bees being studied in Oregon got croaked. The pesticide being used on the corn was so strong that it systemically entered the plan and was passed through to the pollen.
Makes sense.
Thanks
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Even though Monsanto has nothing to do with this or Golden Rice.
Just like it's OK for 1.7 million kids to die of vaccine preventable diseases because of some kind of "big Pharma" horseshit.
sense
(1,219 posts)revbones
(3,660 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)push the lies that breast cancer is caused by abortions.
There is no real difference between these groups for an argument standpoint, they are either gullible, willfully ignorant due to bias, or straight up lying to support their positions.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)who won in court to allow VT's labeling law to proceed.
From Germany to California to the WHO, is it all one big conspiracy? Unlikely.
Archae
(46,337 posts)So did Indiana, with their "funerals for fetuses" law.
"Oh that's different!"
No it isn't.
Both laws are based on bullshit pretending to be "science" and bullshitters pretending to speak for "everyone." Or at least the "majority."
Maybe I am in the minority, I have this distinct aversion to demagogues and hacks who "teach" at "universities" that teach how to fly.
Most of those at Monsanto who pulled the "agent orange" crap in the 60's are dead.
New management is at Monsanto, they are open enough to let in media people to show how GMO research is *ACTUALLY* done, not the "mad scientist poking needles into fruit" picture the anti-GMO activists paint.
Besides, Monsanto is just ONE company that produces GMO's.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Its rather easy to do, a lie will travel around the world before the truth can even be noticed, a butchering of a Mark Twain quote if I ever attempted to make one.
Not to mention the gap mentioned here is interesting:
http://www.pewinternet.org/2015/01/29/public-and-scientists-views-on-science-and-society/
Largest disparity between the public's opinion and that of scientists from the AAAS is on GMOs.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)So perhaps something less than 93% in those areas and also probably fair so say something less than 93% everywhere else as well.
This is what your "93%" looks like...
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)This state did not bother to count close to one million ballots.
A "big ol' election integrity" OOPS! if ever there was one!
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)truedelphi
(32,324 posts)There is something called Google; you might find it useful.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)I thought you might have something else remotely credible, but your non-response tells me all I needed to know.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)TO think of someone who is so mesmerized by Big Industry and the irrelevance of much of what they say, and how you are brainwashed and how it must hurt your brain to come up with independent thinking that reveals the truth.
Poor you! And I think of how my brain hurts when I read an over the top piece like this OP, which cleverly avoids several key elements of Gm farming:
One: that the farmers are enticed to go into the Gm end of things, not realizing they won't be able to save seeds and go back into organic farming. This means a net loss of farmers, and those who attempt to stay into the Gm end of things usually suffer great financial hardship. (Unless they are from the one percent of the equation of their society. (Note how even over a decade ago, more than 6,000 farmers in India who had believed in and then invested in the Big Gm model of crop sustainability ended up committing suicide.
The article says nothing about whether this business model will be avoided - and of course, you know and I know that it is all about huge profits for the big Gm industry.
Two: continuing on the Gm riff of profitability for Monsanto and the other big Ag firms, will farmers who resist the urge to go ahead and plant Gm bananas, will their land be seized as has happened to numerous farmers here in the USA and Canada when the seed contamination occurs and their property is found to contain the Gm crops?
Again, probably so.
Three: The article mentions nothing of th4 dangers of RoundUp, which as far as I know is what is necessary for this crop to grow. And as time goes on, it is inevitable that something stronger will have to be used. Currently in places in both the USA and Canada where the farmers have overutilized Gm seeds and over utilized RoundUp, there is a plethora of weeds that have become immune to Roundup and so the farmers now have to use things related to 2,4 d. Really wonderful - some of the mroe toxic substances out there are now being sprayed to contain the weeds that overuse of RoundUp has allowed to flourish.
Four: continuing on the RoundUp effects' riff, eventually there is a lack of nutrition in the crops grown on soil contaminated by RoundUp. This contamination of fusarium and of vomitoxin, various other fungal matters and molds, has been well documented and has been one of the main concerns of Don Huber. The contamination comes about due to the loss of important soil minerals and what not. (Overuse of RoundUp basically sterilizes the soil.) It is very hard for Monsanto to counter the things Huber says, as for decades Huber was their go to guy and their expert.
So in the end, what happens is whatever good thing was supposed to come about doesn''t even happen as the lower middle class of farmers is destitute, the crops themselves prove to have no extra nutritional value (although in the lab they continue to) and beyond that the crops are mold and fungal contaminated!
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Talk about being mesmerized. It's as if when one turd fails to stick to the wall you just sling 4 more (actually more than that because some of your bullets contain more than one turd).
Here's your source for the Prop 37 stolen election nonsense. It comes from an anti-vax creme-de-la-nutbag. The rest just don't get any better.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)And at the time it happened, I think it was even discussed in SF Chronicle, or maybe their online edition Sfgate.com
Anyway, I know how Erin Brockavich felt when she went up against PG & E.
Or Dr Omalu felt going up against the NFL.
it is always the same thing - a rebuke for our side for supposedly never providing enough, enough, enough, while all your side provides is the usual horse shit of "cigarette smoking is healthy for you and improves yr lung capacity."
Defending industry is so Twentieth Century - will you never get with the progressives and learn about real health and real science?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)You are simply defending a different industry and using sources that employ duplicity and dubious health claims. Pseudoscience and demagoguery doesn't become progressive just because someone with a liberal mindset employs those tactics. Personally I'll leave those methods to the far right wing. YMMV.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)"Before introducing the idea of GM foods, the survey participants were asked simply What information would you like to see on food labels that is not already on there? In response, only 7 percent raised GM food labeling on their own. A similar number (6 percent) said they wanted more information about where the food product was grown or processed. In contrast, when asked directly whether GM foods should be required to be labeled, 73 percent said yes."
http://news.rutgers.edu/research-news/most-americans-pay-little-attention-genetically-modified-foods-survey-says/20131101#.Vvxr1OIrIdU
In other words, the reality of that 93 percent number is rather less than meets the eye.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)http://fortune.com/2016/03/29/del-monte-natural-products/
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Way to go, Vermont! You helped the big corporations out! And you're food will be no better, or safer. Yeah, pseudoscience!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/julie-kelly/vermonts-gmo-labels-a-boo_b_9548826.html
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)the clown car has arrived and they all are here
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)lol
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Campbell's Decision to Label GMOs Destroys Monsanto's Main Argument Against Labeling
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.biggreenpurse.com/campbells-gmo-labeling-victory/&h=310&w=550&tbnid=J9Rhl3P5VpBiKM:&docid=ac3Tb3JTybAAQM&ei=iJ_-VruzOIzujgTev4bYAQ&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwi7l7zu6-3LAhUMt4MKHd6fARsQMwglKAgwCA
wisechoice
(180 posts)If we need GMO science, let government handle the food science just like important public services such as police. Can't trust corporations with our food safety. Until then label the GMOs so that we can punish Monsonto
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)This seems completely irrational. In addition, much of this research is done in both public and private universities.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)I don't know why a consumer would be against labeling. Or a company. Bottom line, people have a right to be informed about what's in their food. Some may not agree with the reasoning, but it seems very authoritarian to insist on controlling the information. When companies such as Monsanto fear transparency, it makes consumers question their integrity. Your question as to why Monsanto acts the victim in this matter is a critical one.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)seeds to organic farms(non-GMO). There bottom line, I expect, won't take much of a hit from any labeling. I'm neutral on the labeling myself if its similar to the labeling for soy/peanut and other products, on the back of the label, along with other ingredients. If its some warning label, like a surgeon general's warning, that I oppose uncategorically as misinformation.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Organic is good for the air we breathe, the waterways, the planet....
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/09/10/is-organic-food-worth-the-expense/the-ecological-case-against-organic-farming
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22240-organic-food-no-better-for-you-or-the-planet/
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/organic-farms-need-for-more-land-is-bad-for-earth-study
It can only lead to further deforestation, as it needs more land to grow the same amount of food.
Also, the shill gambit is ludicrous.
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/logical-fallacies/shill-gambit-logical-fallacies/
BTW, Monsanto sells organic seeds, too.
wisechoice
(180 posts)Every turn you badmouth organic industry and then say in the same breath 'look monsonto is such a noble company that they sell organic too'. Whether Monsonto sells organic seeds or not is irrelevant. It is like BP and other big oil playing those ads about how they care about environment.
Ofcourse organic industry need more science to get optimal production. We should encourage organic industry to adopt more scientific methods than bashing them.
Monsonto owns the GMO seeds. Eventually they will control the food source. It is too important to just accept in the name of "Science". Big corporations cannot be trusted with such an important item such as food. They have a tendency to sc**w up in the name of profit.
However you slice or dice it, it doesn't make sense to support GMO industry at the current form
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)They are a player, even a big player, but they aren't the only one, there are several companies competing and several research institutions involved in the development of transgenic crops. Hell, the one I'm talking about here doesn't involve Monsanto at all, yet they are still mentioned. Its getting ridiculous.
wisechoice
(180 posts)But we just name the big guys who are polluting the atmosphere.
Monsanto is the most evil and a representation of corporations which can potentially scr*w food if unchecked due to their greed. No one should own seeds.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)It is about making money. Nothing more, nothing less. It has it's own corporate malfeasance built in.
Some organic methods can be helpful for farming, but step one is no longer utilizing a random marketing label instead of looking at best practices for everyone. Good luck getting organic companies to do that.
https://thepeopleschemist.com/number-1-reason-organic-food-might-be-a-scam/
Do you know anything about the GMO papaya? The GMO apple? Hmm.
Also, why are so many of the anti-GMO posters at DU new?
Just curious.
wisechoice
(180 posts)Cultivation that is least harmful to consumption. Of course it is not perfect, but it is the right direction. And are u suggesting GMO food industry is about not money? GMO food companies are honest and organic farming is a scam? Nice try
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)It's just a marketing label. Nothing more. Pretending otherwise will not help the planet. No company is perfect, but I don't see those who make foods using GMOs demonizing the competition to gain customers.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/07/are_gmos_safe_yes_the_case_against_them_is_full_of_fraud_lies_and_errors.html
https://badgerherald.com/opinion/2012/09/12/organic-food-the-big/
http://roguehealthandfitness.com/organic-food-waste-money-scam/
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/15611-expert-questions-legitimacy-of-organic-food-certification
wisechoice
(180 posts)Is marketing shtick. You want them to spray chemicals and get sick so that you can rave how good GMOs are? How come everyone has to support GMO to support science. Organic farming is not science? Science is not just in the labs.
Let governments own the seeds and then let us talk about GMOs then. Until then GMOs are nothing but way for corporations to make money with no proper testing.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Anecdotes are not science. India benefitted from GMO cotton. Pesticide use did not increase because of it. You are parroting bad propaganda.
wisechoice
(180 posts)India had farmers committing suicide in the cotton belt after go introduction. Nice spin
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Last edited Sat Apr 2, 2016, 06:39 PM - Edit history (1)
Do you just buy every line the anti-GMO goofballs offer up, without questioning?
wisechoice
(180 posts)Watch this video
Science need open minds. Not narrow definition of what science is.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)The only thing anyone has said is that it is a valuable tool, and the demonization of it is ludicrous.
wisechoice
(180 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)for example, that it is pesticide free or better for your health or the environment, neither of which are true.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)wisechoice
(180 posts)The farmers don't want gmo. Unless you want to get into field and grow gmo with pesticide, you are free to do so. Don't ask farmers to do the same. They are getting sick of this corporate science
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Last edited Sat Apr 2, 2016, 06:41 PM - Edit history (1)
And you think they buy GMO seeds with a gun to their heads? And what danger do GMOs pose that is not also posed by other types of seeds?
Oh brother.
wisechoice
(180 posts)If people want labeling give it to them. Just don't preach that gmo is the holy grail of science. You sound like religious fanatic. I am sure gmo will survive with labeling. And so will Monsonto. Give it rest.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Your desire for a label that has no basis in science equates to making labels for Kosher and Halal mandatory. It's not ok.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)wisechoice
(180 posts)Christian, Muslim religious fantics fight that their God is the only God. Other gods are inferior. Stop being a fanatic
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)You can stick a feather in it and call it macaroni if you want.
wisechoice
(180 posts)My god is the big God
GMO is corporate nonsense. You can call it science or whatever you want.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)If the best you have is angry nonsense, feel free to continue without me.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Organic farming still involves tilling soil, which contributes to topsoil degradation and loss, still uses mechanized farming equipment that pollutes, still uses herbicides and pesticides, just different ones, and those can contaminate waterways. Not to mention that because of lower yields per acre, on average, they have to farm a lot more land, which is very destructive to the environment in general.
Also, on top of this, Monsanto sells (non-transgenic) seeds to organic farms, so chances are that you are actually giving Monsanto money by buying organic.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Natural pesticides less toxic than Synthetic -- Buy Organic!
There are two groups of agricultural pesticides: synthetic and natural. Synthetics are created in labs, and natural ones are substances that occur in nature. The majority of synthetic pesticides (and all of the most toxic ones) used in conventional farming are banned in organic farming, but pesticide drift can mean chemicals sprayed on conventional crops may find their way to nearby organic farms. Still, all of the organic produce in our analysis fell into the very low-risk or low-risk categories.
USDA organic standards allow for the use of certain natural pesticides and very few synthetic ones. But you cant compare conventional and organic farming in an oranges-to-oranges kind of way, says Michael Sligh, a farmer, founding chairman of the National Organic Standards Board, and Just Foods Program director at Rural Advancement Foundation International.
Natural pesticides are usually less toxic than synthetic ones. Pesticide is a broad term used to refer to a range of substances from the very, very limited low-toxic ones allowed in organic farming to the highly toxic chemicals that can be used in conventional farming, he says. They are very different. Before a pesticide is even approved for use in organic farming, it must be evaluated for potential adverse effects on humans, animals, and the environment, and prove its compatible with a system of sustainable agriculture. And farmers must follow integrated `pest-management plans that require that they use any approved organic pesticide as a last resort and develop strategies to avoid repeated use. Those differences have implications for personal health but also for the health of farmworkers and the planet. Folks need to understand the multiple benefits they are getting when they choose organic, he says, and the multiple choices they are making when they dont.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)firms as sources for their expert opinions. Particularly in making unproven assertions such as "Experts at Consumer Reports believe that organic is always the best choice because it is better for your health, the environment, and the people who grow our food."
In addition, they seem to limit the term "pesticide" to only the synthetic ones, and also reached a conclusion that natural pesticides are well tested. Neither of which are true.
They also are not necessarily better for the environment, at best, you can say its a tie between conventional farming and organic farming when it comes to environmental impact.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)and that you love the frankenfoods.
Response to womanofthehills (Reply #151)
HuckleB This message was self-deleted by its author.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)what you are talking about when it comes to biology or nutrition.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)will not longer use their frankenfoods.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)It is not going to be punished. On the other hand, the planet will be punished with the more toxic pesticides used on non-GMO crops.
Way to pollute the world, Vermont!
http://weedcontrolfreaks.com/2015/05/what-does-chipotles-switch-to-non-gmo-ingredients-mean-for-pesticide-use/
Blues Heron
(5,938 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)what relevance does it have to this subject?
Blues Heron
(5,938 posts)and they're growing more of it in Uganda according to the article.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Laboratory and animal research suggests that curcumin may prevent cancer, slow the spread of cancer, make chemotherapy more effective and protect healthy cells from damage by radiation therapy. Curcumin is being studied for use in many types of cancer.
Studies of curcumin in people are still in the early stages. Clinical trials are underway to investigate curcumin as a way to prevent cancer in people with precancerous conditions, as a cancer treatment, and as a remedy for signs and symptoms caused by cancer treatments.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)They heard us! (That's the only reason they would do it)
I won't be buying whatever is labeled GMO. No matter how much the industry pushes them. I know too many scientists (biologists/medical) who won't either.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)thanks.
Vermont
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)Thank you Vermont
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Hey, your side engages in over the top hyperbole, I might was well do so too.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)whatever
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Bananas to produce Vitamin A will be an effective way to combat vitamin deficiencies in Uganda or not?
Nothing to do with whether you would buy them, you get plenty of Vitamin A through your own diet, as does everyone in the United States. This is about Uganda.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)I think Nigerian farmers are right to push back against it.
You can put vitamin A in food that is not genetically engineered. This is a common propaganda ploy--to stress the inclusion of extra vitamins in GMO food.
Maybe you're a food scientist, maybe you're a Big Agra PR guy--whatever, you have a vested interest. My thing is biomedical--and I say you're on the wrong side of this issue.
So this won't go well. Cya later
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)why the fuck do anti-science people ALWAYS fall back to that?
Of course this isn't going to end well, you are ignorant of biology. Oh, and an FYI, I work customer service for a PBM, you figure out what that is.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)if you're not a paid shill.
Let's just say I'm well versed in the biomedical & biostat field. Not ignorant about biology.
There is fortified food all over the place that is not GMO. Doesn't take a bios degree to see that.
I'm against it. You're for it. Let's leave it at that.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)for example, adding iodine to salt or iron to cornflakes, or it can involve genetic engineering. There's other methods, Vitamin A fortified sugar, etc. But these are processed or refined foods, not raw food, such as bananas.
The issue is that these types of fortification wouldn't be practical in Uganda, so other methods should be tried. In addition, you have yet to give a reason as to why you wouldn't eat these bananas, or any other food that has been genetically engineered. Is there a reason, or is it just personal preference?
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)--comparing the US population with countries such as China that do not allow GMOs should give some data after awhile.
You can push GMOs all you want but let people decide if they want to be guinea pigs or not. Americans never have had a choice about this.
GMOs have been rammed down our throats without consent--literally.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)You claim we are guinea pigs, I don't think that's true.
And if you want to claim that the data should be in please bear in mind that both cancer rates and cancer deaths have decreased remarkably since 1960 or so, and we are overall healthier though we do have an obesity problem, which is an issue with too many processed foods having too much sugar and fat, nothing to do with GMOs directly.
nationalize the fed
(2,169 posts)On Humans. TIA
The resounding claim of GMO proponents is that GMOs have been proven safe. Some scientists are quite emphatic about this, such as Dr. Pamela Ronald from UC Davis, who says:
Genetically engineered crops currently on the market are as safe to eat and safe for the environment as organic or conventional foods.
Dr. Roger Clemens, from the USC Department of Pharmacology, also weighs in, saying:
Theyre tested and evaluated in voluminous documentation that would fill this backyard. We dont know of any health risk at this particular time.
Dr. Clemens also defends food additives, sugar, and processed foods, but I digress...
The problem with concluding that GMOs are safe is that the argument for their safety rests solely on animal studies. These studies are offered as evidence that the debate over GMOs is over. Nothing could be farther from the truth...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carole-bartolotto/have-genetically-modified_b_5597751.html
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)you know, like in this case:
http://www.gmwatch.org/news/archive/2014/15565-another-unethical-gmo-human-trial-planned
Note, their argument is extremely stupid because the differences in the banana is the fact that it produces beta-carotene, which we already know is safe to consume for humans. The tests are to determine Vitamin A intake, not for safety.
The fact is that there is no substantial differences between conventional crops and transgenic crops, as explained by this article:
https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2016/01/13/no-long-term-gmo-studies-humans/
If there is a crop introduced that produces a novel protein or substance that does have a pharmacological effect on the human body, then I agree that the typical food testing is inadequate, but that isn't happening here.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Roundup - probably carcinogenic says WHO (I sure don't want to take a change eating this stuff)
An ingredient in Monsanto MON -0.14%s Roundup weed-killer glyphosate is probably carcinogenic, according to a new decision by the World Health Organization yesterday. The decision was laid out in a new analysis in The Lancet Oncology, and published on the WHOs International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) website. The analysis is based on the existing research on the chemical exposure in people and lab animals. Though its sure to raise consumer concerns, some like Monsanto say its unwarranted since no new data are included in the research, and previous studies have all deemed glyphosate relatively safe in the doses humans take it in. Consumers ears are certainly pricked at this new decision but how convincing is it?
The report determines that there is limited evidence that the chemical can cause non-Hodgkins lymphoma and lung cancer in humans. It says there is, however, convincing evidence that it can cause cancer in laboratory animals. Among people who work with the herbicide, who generally have traces of the compound in their blood and urine, there appears to be a slightly increased risk of non-Hodgkin lymphoma, according to the report: Case-control studies of occupational exposure in the USA, Canada, and Sweden reported increased risks for non-Hodgkin lymphoma that persisted after adjustment for other pesticides.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)but glyphosate.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Of course, it's about glyphosate, but, even then, as you know, the WHO is not in agreement with other agencies, nevermind the reality that other herbicides, including organic ones, are more toxic.
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2015/11/efsa-finds-glyphosate-unlikely-to-cause-cancer-in-humans/#.Vv7UHOIrIdU
http://www.hoajonline.com/toxicology/2056-3779/2/1
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)I would like to talk about.
The FIRST FUCKING POST in response to my thread slams Monsanto, a company that has fucking NOTHING to do with what I posted. These people are being dishonest pieces of shit criticizing what could be an effective method of combating real world malnutrition.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Take care.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)so anyone who disagrees with you is "a piece of shit". Personality Disorder Alert!!
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Monsanto is retesting after WHO came out with possible cancer from GMOs.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)They are tested just like any other food product.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)And you are happy about that. I find that to be truly disturbing. Your fellow humans deserve better from you.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)-----
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Anti-GMOers have already done damage to the world and its inhabitants. They seem proud of that fact. It's absolutely abhorrent.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Do you dismiss them?
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)American Association for the Advancement of Science: The science is quite clear: crop improvement by the modern molecular techniques of biotechnology is safe. (http://bit.ly/11cR4sB)
American Medical Association: There is no scientific justification for special labeling of genetically modified foods. Bioengineered foods have been consumed for close to 20 years, and during that time, no overt consequences on human health have been reported and/or substantiated in the peer-reviewed literature. (http://bit.ly/166OUdM)
World Health Organization: No effects on human health have been shown as a result of the consumption of GM foods by the general population in the countries where they have been approved. (http://bit.ly/18yzzVI)
National Academy of Sciences: To date more than 98 million acres of genetically modified crops have been grown worldwide. No evidence of human health problems associated with the ingestion of these crops or resulting food products have been identified. (http://bit.ly/13Cib0Y)
The Royal Society of Medicine: Foods derived from GM crops have been consumed by hundreds of millions of people across the world for more than 15 years, with no reported ill effects (or legal cases related to human health), despite many of the consumers coming from that most litigious of countries, the USA. (http://1.usa.gov/12huL7Z)
The European Commission: The main conclusion to be drawn from the efforts of more than 130 research projects, covering a period of more than 25 years of research, and involving more than 500 independent research groups, is that biotechnology, and in particular GMOs, are no more risky than e.g. conventional plant breeding technologies. (http://bit.ly/133BoZW)
American Council on Science and Health: [W]ith the continuing accumulation of evidence of safety and efficiency, and the complete absence of any evidence of harm to the public or the environment, more and more consumers are becoming as comfortable with agricultural biotechnology as they are with medical biotechnology. (http://bit.ly/12hvoyg)
American Dietetic Association: It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that agricultural and food biotechnology techniques can enhance the quality, safety, nutritional value, and variety of food available for human consumption and increase the efficiency of food production, food processing, food distribution, and environmental and waste management. (http://1.usa.gov/12hvWnE)
American Phytopathological Society: The American Phytopathological Society (APS), which represents approximately 5,000 scientists who work with plant pathogens, the diseases they cause, and ways of controlling them, supports biotechnology as a means for improving plant health, food safety, and sustainable growth in plant productivity. (http://bit.ly/14Ft4RL)
American Society for Cell Biology: Far from presenting a threat to the public health, GM crops in many cases improve it. The ASCB vigorously supports research and development in the area of genetically engineered organisms, including the development of genetically modified (GM) crop plants. (http://bit.ly/163sWdL)
American Society for Microbiology: The ASM is not aware of any acceptable evidence that food produced with biotechnology and subject to FDA oversight constitutes high risk or is unsafe. We are sufficiently convinced to assure the public that plant varieties and products created with biotechnology have the potential of improved nutrition, better taste and longer shelf-life. (http://bit.ly/13Cl2ak)
American Society of Plant Biologists: The risks of unintended consequences of this type of gene transfer are comparable to the random mixing of genes that occurs during classical breeding The ASPB believes strongly that, with continued responsible regulation and oversight, GE will bring many significant health and environmental benefits to the world and its people. (http://bit.ly/13bLJiR)
International Seed Federation: The development of GM crops has benefited farmers, consumers and the environment Today, data shows that GM crops and foods are as safe as their conventional counterparts: millions of hectares worldwide have been cultivated with GM crops and billions of people have eaten GM foods without any documented harmful effect on human health or the environment. (http://bit.ly/138rZLW)
Council for Agricultural Science and Technology: Over the last decade, 8.5 million farmers have grown transgenic varieties of crops on more than 1 billion acres of farmland in 17 countries. These crops have been consumed by humans and animals in most countries. Transgenic crops on the market today are as safe to eat as their conventional counterparts, and likely more so given the greater regulatory scrutiny to which they are exposed. (http://bit.ly/11cTKq9)
Crop Science Society of America: The Crop Science Society of America supports education and research in all aspects of crop production, including the judicious application of biotechnology. (http://bit.ly/138sQMB)
International Society of African Scientists: Africa and the Caribbean cannot afford to be left further behind in acquiring the uses and benefits of this new agricultural revolution. (http://bit.ly/14Fp1oK)
Federation of Animal Science Societies: Meat, milk and eggs from livestock and poultry consuming biotech feeds are safe for human consumption. (http://bit.ly/133F79K)
Society for In Vitro Biology: The SIVB supports the current science-based approach for the evaluation and regulation of genetically engineered crops. The SIVB supports the need for easy public access to available information on the safety of genetically modified crop products. In addition, the SIVB feels that foods from genetically modified crops, which are determined to be substantially equivalent to those made from crops, do not require mandatory labeling. (http://bit.ly/18yFDxo)
Consensus document on GMOs Safety (14 Italian scientific societies): GMOs on the market today, having successfully passed all the tests and procedures necessary to authorization, are to be considered, on the basis of current knowledge, safe to use for human and animal consumption. (http://bit.ly/166WHYZ)
Society of Toxicology: Scientific analysis indicates that the process of GM food production is unlikely to lead to hazards of a different nature than those already familiar to toxicologists. The level of safety of current GM foods to consumers appears to be equivalent to that of traditional foods. (http://bit.ly/13bOaSt)
Transgenic Plants and World Agriculture - Prepared by the Royal Society of London, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, the Brazilian Academy of Sciences, the Chinese Academy of Sciences, the Indian National Science Academy, the Mexican Academy of Sciences, and the Third World Academy of Sciences:Foods can be produced through the use of GM technology that are more nutritious, stable in storage, and in principle health promoting bringing benefits to consumers in both industrialized and developing nations. (http://bit.ly/17Cliq5)
French Academy of Science: All criticisms against GMOs can be largely rejected on strictly scientific criteria. (http://bit.ly/15Hm3wO)
Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities: Food derived from GM plants approved in the EU and the US poses no risks greater than those from the corresponding conventional food. On the contrary, in some cases food from GM plants appears to be superior with respect to health. (http://bit.ly/17ClMMF)
International Council for Science: Currently available genetically modified crops and foods derived from them have been judged safe to eat, and the methods used to test them have been deemed appropriate. (http://bit.ly/15Hn487)
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Blues Heron
(5,938 posts)Good article on growing carrots in Uganda
http://www.observer.ug/business/38-business/39132-how-carrots-are-changing-lives-of-sabiny-women
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Blues Heron
(5,938 posts)No test tube tubers are going to solve that.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)the idea is to give them the cultivar in question and allow it to proliferate to supplement and then replace the cultivar already present. That way they will be cheap and plentiful. Seems reasonable.
Now, if they can make carrots able to grow with equal proliferation, I would say go for that, but, on a practical level, that may also require genetic engineering to make them more warm weather adapted.
Blues Heron
(5,938 posts)Mangoes too - here's an article about a farm in Uganda where they grow both carrots and mangoes:
http://www.ugandarural.org/2012/02/03/farm-summit-masaka-uganda/
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)necessary to make a difference.
Like I said, bananas, in particularly, cooking bananas, are a staple crop in Uganda, similar to rice, corn or wheat in other countries, so its in almost everything on some level. Carrots are not nearly as widely consumed.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)In India, the Philippines, Indonesia and other places, farmers don't want to give up their indigenous crops for fortified versions. They value the diversity of their own strains. We on the other hand always seem to promote western cultural supremacy everywhere we go.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)and other groups.
Also, this is as much "Western cultural supremacy" as the distribution of the smallpox or polio vaccines.
Also, in the case of the bananas, they are being developed with cooperation from the Ugandan government.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)They are certainly not trials for establishing the safety of GM bananas for human consumption, nor are they the thorough clinical studies that would be expected for a novel GMO food intended for daily consumption for vulnerable malnourished African infants.
Dr Dale himself has said he sees the GMO bananas are a door-opener to help facilitate the uptake of many more GMO crops in Africa and globally.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Opponents of GMOs argue that they threaten the sustainability of farming in Africa with accompanying restrictions that remove farmers' right to choose their own crops and seeds.
"Real nutrition is when you have diversity of crops in your garden to choose from, not having only one crop everywhere," said Mukiibi, who is also a vice-president of the Ugandan branch of the global organisation Slow Food International, which rejects GMOs and advocates "good, clean and fair food."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/heated-debate-uganda-over-super-bananas-143614925.html
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)The fact that you can put basically anything into these plants and then get it through the FDA with no testing is ludicrous, Schubert says.
Schubert says beta-carotene, the organic compound thats been lab engineered into the GM banana, poses a particular problem because its both synthesized and broken down into a much smaller molecule called retinoic acid, required for development of the nervous system.
It works in incredibly small amounts and in higher amounts, or any modification of this molecule, it causes birth defects, says Schubert.
http://fsrn.org/2016/02/new-gm-banana-bound-for-uganda-set-for-human-testing-at-iowa-state/
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)I only eat the following if organic -
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)The hardest thing to find is organic corn. Not impossible.
Yes we just have to reject it. That is the only thing they understand.
We did not agree to being the first test generation.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)at Vitamin Cottage and the farmers markets so I grow my own in the summer and freeze it. You can grow a lot of corn in a really small space.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)it is good to talk to others that get this problem with GMOs. So hard to resist the propaganda that is out there. Consumers have to be able to say no to it.
So Far From Heaven
(354 posts)that this thread shows just about everything having to do with global warming denial.
People tend to trust those that think like they do or tell them what they want to believe.
The only question I have is whether or not gene splicing will develop organisms that over-run traditional non-spliced species, causing a complete loss in diversity.
That spells doom. That's why some countries outlawed GMO wheat.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)So Far From Heaven
(354 posts)One is based solely on trust, the other verifiable fact.
My post was about adherence to belief being stronger than scientific evidence that is contrary to those beliefs, and listening to those that share your beliefs versus those that base their conclusions on verifiable evidence.
This phenomenon has been studied quite a bit, most recently that I know of in the context of global warming denial.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Which do you think a plethora of references to Seralini falls under?
So Far From Heaven
(354 posts)Study after study has concluded that what you say is true, what I'm pointing out is some, not all, of the reason for favoring pseudoscience is trust in the source of the information. We tend to trust those that think like we do, or hold similar beliefs that we hold.
The paper concluded that even being confronted with irrefutable evidence to the contrary will not override these tendencies.
That's why we have never cracked the seventy percent acceptance level for global warming, and may never actually get that high.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)While it's true that some people have a propensity to seek out bubbles and stay within them, I don't believe that fully explains why bullshit can proliferate for so long. I think some of it has to do with the sheer number of sources. Most people just aren't going to take the effort to sort out the background noise from good information when on the face both can be made to look the same. Another problem is that internet search engines don't return results based on the value or credibility of information. So a given search on a particular subject within the arena of climate change or biotech might not provide anything but bullshit until you get to the 3rd page or so.
I do think that most myths eventually drown under their own weight. Nobody really gives a shit what 9/11 truthers or Obama birthers have to say anymore and the anti-vaxxers' shit is starting to get pretty weak.
So Far From Heaven
(354 posts)Stands the test of time.
It doesn't help when there is a concerted effort to demonize the science in the name of either 'rugged individualism' or 'freedom' either.
So Far From Heaven
(354 posts)Thanks for the thoughtful discussion as well.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Your post shows an astounding lack of knowledge.
So Far From Heaven
(354 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)When no such thing has come to market, no country can reject it. Your ignorance of genetics shown in that post is so astounding I didn't address it.
It's time for you to stop.
So Far From Heaven
(354 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)None has even been considered for market.
Nice Googling, btw.
List the locations of those 400 trials, and get back to us. Thanks.
So Far From Heaven
(354 posts)Don't need google, either.
Oregon case of transfer of GMO wheat to neighboring farm a few years back.
Your apology seems lacking, and your social skills need improving. When you're wrong, just admit it.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)And failed to acknowledge that said plot's seeds were from a long given up research project.
You seem to think that others should apologize for your ignorance.
That's very odd.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Wouldn't one or two (whichever it is) fields of a GM product that has not come to market and may never make any fear of a global wheat armageddon seem at least a little premature?
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Monsanto's chief technology officer, Robert Fraley, floated his own hypothesis in a teleconference with reporters last year. "The fact pattern indicates the strong possibility that someone intentionally introduced wheat seed containing [Monsanto's new gene] into his field," he said at the time. He speculated that this could have been an act of sabotage carried out by anti-biotech activists who somehow had acquired genetically engineered seed.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)after post after post after post
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)I'm sorry that bothers you, as you attempt to promote fiction-based fear.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/528331/how-scare-tactics-on-gmo-foods-hurt-everybody/
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Half the world won't eat GMOs!
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Like allow LBGTQ people to live with equal rights, for example.
There is no science-based justification for opposing GMOs. You know this.
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/review-10-years-gmo-research-no-significant-dangers/
So Far From Heaven
(354 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Again, nice Google work. You and I both know the reality. You parroted bad propaganda and got caught. The rest of your lack of understanding of genetics is still there for everyone to see. You might want to consider being honest.
So Far From Heaven
(354 posts)What about the common English word 'produced' do you fail to grasp?
They made it.
They planted it.
It moved to a neighboring farm.
It stoked fears across two continents because it moved.
It dropped it, WHILE IN PRODUCTION to customers in the far East because of the blowback.
QED
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)You make a claim that never could have occurred to a product that has never been introduced to market. You make ludicrously silly rants about genetics that show an amazing lack of understanding about the topic. Then you make more claims, and all you have is the Oregon story for support, which we both know you just learned about, and are continuing to learn about, as your posts clearly show.
Be An adult, and cut the crap. You can't fake it.
Btw, you do know that we know that anything else you offer here is fresh from Google, right?
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)You are always so mean.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)jmowreader
(50,560 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)plant supplementing or replacing another. It may replace more than one variety or not, but that's the people's choice. We bred and engineered these plants to practically require us to grow them and cultivate them, many can't even reproduce on their own anymore. I also don't see how it causes loss of diversity when large scale farming does that without GMOs being necessary.
There is nothing magical about genetically engineered plants that allow them to overrun other crops without human intervention, because that doesn't happen. They may outcompete non-transgenic crops, but that's a different argument.
If you are that worried about biodiversity in crops, then lobby farmers and big agricorps to use a large variety of species as food sources.
pediatricmedic
(397 posts)I don't see a problem with this at all.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)... Well, read the article.
PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)I'm not afraid. More afraid of getting hit by a car when I cross the street!
Deadshot
(384 posts)And people still protest it.
Ugh.
This is irritating.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)and people still protest it, because "Monsatan" is evil. The irony is completely lost on them.
It's one thing to hate Monsanto. I hate them too. But it's another thing to hate GMOs because Monsanto happens to create them, even though they don't own them (except the ones they create).
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The vast majority of the work is done by universities working on grants paid for by Monsanto, other corporations, and/or the government. Golden Rice was developed purely by government and non-profit sponsorship. They only partnered with Syngenta for the production technology and infrastructure and even then Syngenta is providing it to them at cost, yet somehow this is still "evil" even though it will clearly save the lives of millions of children.
What's even more interesting is when you ask people why they hate Monsanto, you usually get answers like they are causing suicides of poor Indian farmers, even though cotton production has skyrocketed and suicides are down, which were epidemic before Bt cotton was even introduced. Or you get answers like Agent Orange, produced on license from the government by Monsanto and other companies with Monsanto being the only one that warned the government about it's use.
That's not to say there aren't other reasons to hate Monsanto, but if one wants to hate them they ought to come up with reasons that aren't based on fiction. The peril to using lies to further one's agenda is eventually those lies are going to be found out, and when that happens the credibility for their movement with the public collapses. That's why I always say that which can be debunked, should be. It doesn't serve anyone's interests to allow it to flourish, other than the opportunists which are making bank on misinformation campaigns.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)What don't you get?
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 1, 2016, 06:55 PM - Edit history (1)
http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/review-10-years-gmo-research-no-significant-dangers/womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Why are you repeating your lie?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/world-health-organization-wont-back-down-from-study-linking-monsanto-to-cancer/5439840[div
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Why are you using a junk science site?
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)That's really sad.
And your bigotry is noted.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)-- Vani Hari, a.k.a. The Food Babe
You can actually feel yourself getting dumber as you listen to her.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Eat well - look good!!
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)It's kind of a shame than in about 10 years the "babe" part just isn't going to apply anymore and she'll still be an idiot.
And you would probably lose that bet, not to mention that I've got quite a few years on her. I've been eating well and working out longer than she's been on this earth.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)When the IARC released it's full report on the junk science they used for their glyphosate classification, even they rejected the Seralini rat study as shit.
Page 35
http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol112/mono112-09.pdf
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Thanks!
Deadshot
(384 posts).
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Glyphosate residue could reach humans and animals through feed and excreted in urine. Presence of glyphosate in urine and its accumulation in animal tissues is alarming even at low concentrations. Unknown impacts of glyphosate on human and animal health warrants further investigations of glyphosate residues in vertebrates and other non-target organisms.
Also glyphosate was significantly higher (P<0.0002) in humans feed conventional feed compared with predominately organic feed humans.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Deadshot
(384 posts)You provided no link, no peer-reviewed studies of your assertions.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)I suspect the other nonsense you are actually peddling was the IARC, which is a non-regulatory branch of the WHO, claimed glyphosate could cause cancer. The part of that story you must have missed was that the EFSA, which actually does regulate pesticides, called out the IARC for peddling complete bullshit.
[font color="color" size=5 face="face"]Conclusion on the peer review of the pesticide risk assessment of the active substance glyphosate[/font]
Following a second mandate from the European Commission to consider the findings from the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) regarding the potential carcinogenicity of glyphosate or glyphosate-containing plant protection products in the on-going peer review of the active substance, EFSA concluded that glyphosate is unlikely to pose a carcinogenic hazard to humans and the evidence does not support classification with regard to its carcinogenic potential according to Regulation (EC) No 1272/2008.
killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)There's no money to be made selling food to people who can't afford food, so fuck em.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)"...
This brings us to the other anti-science ideology, the pro-organic, anti-GMO movement. This movement is almost entirely based on the appeal-to-nature fallacy, and scaremongering about new technology. Daniel Engber wrote in a recent commentary that the movement is more akin to a religion, and is simply not about facts.
One of the talking points in the anti-GMO movement is that we do not need to increase our food production. We produce more than enough food today to feed the worlds population, the real problem is distribution. While this is true, it entirely misses the point the point that Kromdijk and Long now make explicit. It actually misses two points.
The first is that agriculture has a huge footprint on the planet. According to a National Geographic study in 2005, 40% of the Earths land mass is used for agriculture. All of the best land for agriculture is already being used. The same study indicates that we could potentially double the land mass used for agriculture, but we will be spreading into less desirable land, and devastating natural ecosystems in the process (mostly in Africa and South America).
Remember, we will need to produce 87% more food by 2050, and we cannot simply increase land use 87%. We need to use our land more efficiently.
..."
killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)Like all agriculture in this country and most of the world over, GMOs will be used based on how effective they are in making money.
The promise of GMOs are nice and all, but things like golden rice and better papayas represent an insignificant portion of the market.
We need genetic diversity among the crops we cultivate, because the world is diverse and some things grow better than others due to regional differences. You can't just take a crop that grow well in iowa, insert a gene to do whatever, and then sell it to farmers in a completely different region of the world promising miracles. It will never live up to the hype. We cannot monocrop the world.
Until we use GMOs to tailor individual strains that are suited to their environment, and not patent them and give control of people's livelyhoods to the whims of corporations, who are legally required to not give a fuck about anything but money, there will not be widespread adoption of GMOs.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)That's not going to help anyone.
killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)Or they can do bad things, like take over a foreign market with a product that promises a lot and doesn't deliver. Becuase cotton grown in the southeast, modified for BT, may not grow very well in foreign markets like west Africa in which native species are more suited.
https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/2016/02/09/burkina-fasos-bt-cotton-not-meeting-expectations/
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)We aren't talking about taking a crop, inserting a gene, and selling it in a place where it is foreign. We are talking about take a crop that's already being grown locally and inserting a gene that will make it save lives. There's no miracle involved, just biotechnology. The people at the micro level don't have to do anything, unlike the miracle you are promoting, which has always been the basic problem.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)so that the people who already eat it will get the required amount of Vitamin A in their bodies. This helps prevent blindness and death. They aren't starving to death, but are nutrient deficient, which is a different, sometimes related issue.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)many of the major food suppilers, General Mills for one, said they will just put labels on all their products shipped across the country, not just those sold in Vermont. More cost effective to label nationally than in only one state.
See how just ONE State can make a difference?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)alarimer
(16,245 posts)A product that for areas of the world that subsist on rice, will reduce incidents of blindness and needless deaths due to vitamin deficiencies.
At opposition to some of these crops is just plain cruel.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)"give them carrots to grow" in an environment carrots can't grow well, or that this food won't do them any good because they need to consume fat with it. Which is stupid because fat happens to be largely in abundance, and you don't require a lot(about 2-3% daily intake) of it, to allow for Vitamin A absorption.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Continue with supplements and I guess accept that 30% of people will suffer from vitamin A deficiancy.
How many people being blinded or will die is acceptable to you?
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)which is the Cavendish. But that's not the point, yes the banana is loaded with other nutrients, but not the one the population is deficient in, so scientists are trying to find a way to distribute that nutrient(Vitamin A) in the most cost effective and widely distributed way possible.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Cooking bananas (plantains) already have vit A - so it makes no sense. Plantains are high in vit c and have generous amts of vit A.
Unlike the cavendish, plantains have lots of vit A.
Plantain bananas are high in potassium, magnesium, fiber, vit C and vit A.
check out any site on google.
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)What you say makes no sense, as cooking bananas are extremely high in Vit A.
of sliced plantain versus 134 mg for bananas, according to the USDA. And they contain a whopping 1400 IU vitamiin A per cup vs. 122 IU for bananas.
http://preventcancer.aicr.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=9399&news_iv_ctrl=0&abbr=pr_hf_
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Some are, but not the ones that people eat as a staple in Uganda and other areas. Wilberforce Tushemereirwe, the Ugandan leader of the banana project, explained in an email that the cooking banana that serves as their staple food has few carotenes. They found they could rev up its nutrient production by importing a gene from a carotene-rich Micronesian banana.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Plantains are the banana of Uganda. They are a staple crop in Africa and already have lots of vit a.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Believe it or not there's more than one subspecies of plantains. If you are quoting the vitamin A levels of anything other than the East African Highland cultivar, all you are doing is providing completely useless information.
http://gcgh.grandchallenges.org/sites/default/files/DaleandTushemereirwe.pdf#page=3
womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)the cooking ones are loaded with vit a, the ones like ours just have a little - they also have a red super vitamin a banana.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Do you even realize the nonsense you are spewing is self defeating?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_African_Highland_bananas
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)womanofthehills
(8,718 posts)Testing the controversial bananas on humans
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/health/2016/02/17/isu-still-plans-gmo-banana-trial-despite-controversy/80507378/
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)Fear mongering delays progress in everything.