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Are Religious People Less Smart? New Study Out...w/Shocking Results (Original Post) thomhartmann Apr 2016 OP
Can't link to article katsy Apr 2016 #1
here: NutmegYankee Apr 2016 #2
Thanks! nt katsy Apr 2016 #4
bad link.. but found this... Why Are Religious People (Generally) Less Intelligent? True Earthling Apr 2016 #3
Try this: -none Apr 2016 #5
Study must of skipped Texas: less critical thinking, yes. More empathy? Who are you f**king kidding? Kip Humphrey Apr 2016 #6
Or NC Populist_Prole Apr 2016 #9
Jesus is like their Monopoly "get out of jail" card, but for their lives instead of a game. Arugula Latte Apr 2016 #14
thats why i left religion Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #11
heck, that's why I left science! XD MisterP Apr 2016 #18
ITA with your first paragraph. nt raccoon Apr 2016 #35
Yep Melurkyoulongtime Apr 2016 #15
I think it's less guilt and more of their "heaven scorecard." Oneironaut Apr 2016 #16
I stand corrected. Feeling guilty requires a moral compass. Sorry for the slip up. Kip Humphrey Apr 2016 #17
Lol. The article is very badly written, in a Hortensis Apr 2016 #24
Must of??? n/t meaculpa2011 Apr 2016 #44
This kind of sounds like bullshit to me Orrex Apr 2016 #7
Agreed Democrats Ascendant Apr 2016 #10
The hypothesis upon which the study appears to be based is highly problematic. Democrats Ascendant Apr 2016 #8
yes larkrake Apr 2016 #12
I disagree gratuitous Apr 2016 #19
Is that opinion predicated on objective evidence LanternWaste Apr 2016 #22
I believe any study would bear out my observations. In any case, I have lived or larkrake Apr 2016 #32
It should be obvious religious people have a lack of intellectual curiosity.... Logical Apr 2016 #42
All our politicians are religious, yortsed snacilbuper Apr 2016 #13
Jesus Thom... you read and post at DU and not in your own forum? eniwetok Apr 2016 #20
Science is great... unless it doesn't validate our biases about religion or marijuana LanternWaste Apr 2016 #21
"Is that opinion predicated on objective evidence". lol, get it now? nt Logical Apr 2016 #43
This study is lacking. Xolodno Apr 2016 #23
Heresy doth never prosper Fumesucker Apr 2016 #30
Religious empiricism at its finest: Gabi Hayes Apr 2016 #41
JESUS! Can't you post a synopsis? Atman Apr 2016 #25
Jesus doesn't do synopses. Warren DeMontague Apr 2016 #33
"Spiritual thinkers"? Oymoron, that. NT Jerry442 Apr 2016 #26
Thom! That you? You should recognize bullshit when you see it. immoderate Apr 2016 #27
I'm a pantheist, and think the "Golden Rule" is as much a natural physical law Zorra Apr 2016 #28
faith sabotages the intellect eniwetok Apr 2016 #29
For some reason, this bit made me laugh really hard: ladyVet Apr 2016 #31
all the smarts in the world won't help if you don't think critically and challenge assumptions. Warren DeMontague Apr 2016 #34
Less ethical. Bluenorthwest Apr 2016 #36
Oh and OP- blind links are rude. Bluenorthwest Apr 2016 #37
Well, they lack the ability to distingush between fantasy and reality, for a start. mr blur Apr 2016 #38
Cicero was smart. Octafish Apr 2016 #39
Conflict between science, religion lies in our brains struggle4progress Apr 2016 #40
Thom, if you're going to post your stuff here, at least stick around and... ChisolmTrailDem Apr 2016 #45

True Earthling

(832 posts)
3. bad link.. but found this... Why Are Religious People (Generally) Less Intelligent?
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 11:14 AM
Apr 2016

Understanding the negative relationship between IQ and religiosity

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mr-personality/201312/why-are-religious-people-generally-less-intelligent

The key question, then, is why religious people are generally less intelligent. And the authors did not shy away from the answer, offering three compelling explanations:

(1) Intelligent people are generally more analytical and data-driven; formal religions are the antithesis: they are empirically fluffy and their claims are often in direct contradiction with scientific evidence, unless they are interpreted metaphorically – but maybe intelligent people are not that keen on metaphor. Another way of putting it is that people with a high IQ are more likely to have faith in science, which isn’t religion’s best friends (yes, yes, I do know about Einstein’s quotes).

(2) Intelligent people are less likely to conform, and, in most societies, religiosity is closer to the norm than atheism is. Although this interpretation is based on extrapolation, it still makes sense: first, smarter people tend to be less gullible; second, in most societies religious people outnumber atheists and agnostics - though global levels of religiosity have been declining, and there is substantial cultural variability in religiosity levels.

(3) Intelligence and religiosity are “functionally equivalent”, which means that they fulfil the same psychological role. Although this intriguing argument contradicts points 1 and 2, it deserves serious consideration. Humans will always crave meaning. Religion – like science and logical reasoning – provides them with a comprehensive framework or system to make meaningful interpretations of the world. At times, religion and science are in conflict; but they can also act in concert, complementing each other to answer non-falsifiable and falsifiable questions, respectively. The authors conclude that some people satisfy their desire to find meaning via religion, whereas others do so via logical, analytical, or scientific reasoning – and IQ predicts whether you are in the former or latter group.

Kip Humphrey

(4,753 posts)
6. Study must of skipped Texas: less critical thinking, yes. More empathy? Who are you f**king kidding?
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 11:19 AM
Apr 2016

In Texas, most go to church on Sunday to absolve themselves of any guilt from mistreating others during the week. One characteristic lacking is empathy toward the other, at least as directed towards others outside their religious click.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
9. Or NC
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 11:42 AM
Apr 2016

They can be raging assholes all week and after 12 PM on sundays. But they're "good christians" if they have a fish emblem on their cars and profess their faith.

Viva_La_Revolution

(28,791 posts)
11. thats why i left religion
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 11:52 AM
Apr 2016

Watching people act holier than thou and so judgie of everyone else.. while i knew there were affairs going on and shady business stuff and just general asshole attitudes the other 6 days of the week.

Then i discovered The Science! and my soul was comforted..

Melurkyoulongtime

(136 posts)
15. Yep
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:13 PM
Apr 2016

You hit the nail right on the head! And if those "others" happen to be poor and/or POC then all they secretly want you to do is just die already. You know, so as not to be inconvenienced by "those" people anymore. Can't tell you how many times I've heard "Kill them all and let gawd sort them out" said by so-called Christians in regards to the poor & POC here. Jesus wept.

Oneironaut

(5,517 posts)
16. I think it's less guilt and more of their "heaven scorecard."
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:21 PM
Apr 2016

They're too selfish to feel guilt over mistreating others. They're just afraid of judgment. Hence where church comes in - sins forgiven, scorecard wiped clean, and problem solved!

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
24. Lol. The article is very badly written, in a
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 02:23 PM
Apr 2016

sort of either-or manner, as if a very large number of people didn't use a broad range of the faculties discussed. Also as if religious were better...

In looking for this I found mention of another study that revealed religious children were meaner. Doesn't mean they weren't empathetic enough to know how to get someone crying, of course.

Orrex

(63,219 posts)
7. This kind of sounds like bullshit to me
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 11:19 AM
Apr 2016

I become suspicious any time I see a claim that one group is "less intelligent" than another group, especially when the claim is pitched to the nominally "more intelligent" group.

8. The hypothesis upon which the study appears to be based is highly problematic.
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 11:40 AM
Apr 2016

From what I could find, the methodology too does not seem to be particularly rigorous, although the reports did not disclose very much about what the tests were like and what types of people were involved.

In general, I find these sort of studies to be more revealing of the people who concocted them than of the people who participated in them.

(Funny also that there are at least two typos in the write up....)

I fear that, on a scientific level, I am not particularly impressed.

 

larkrake

(1,674 posts)
12. yes
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:02 PM
Apr 2016

In my opinion, every religious person stops being curious and do not seek truths, in fact, the more religious, the more willingly ignorant. They use their faith as their guide in decisions and are easily manipulated by clergy or religious friends. They may be genetically smart, but choose to be led rather than discover anything beyond their blinders

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
19. I disagree
Sun Apr 3, 2016, 12:31 PM
Apr 2016

But then, considering how played that whole "serve one another in love" has become, it's well-nigh impossible to argue with the points about "every religious person" in your post.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
22. Is that opinion predicated on objective evidence
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 02:03 PM
Apr 2016

"In my opinion, every religious person stops being curious and do not seek truths..."

Is that opinion predicated on objective evidence, or merely anecdotal evidence biased by a personal filter (or, in your words, 'blinders')?

 

larkrake

(1,674 posts)
32. I believe any study would bear out my observations. In any case, I have lived or
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:00 AM
Apr 2016

traveled to every continent and see the same "blinders" on deeply religious folk, the worst being radical christians who use their scripture, guns and ropes to torture, shun and kill those with other beliefs, "in the name of God". Something supported since the crusades. Yes these radicals use their religion as an excuse to kill, but it also shows a lack of intellect, which was the question in the OP.
My opinion is a personal filter, and my friends who follow many religions to one degree or another, restrict themselves to equal degrees of tunnel vision about life, missing out on growth, experiences and the wonders of the world. I still respect them as human beings with qualities I may not have, but I am sad they do not see beyond religious propaganda. Curiosity leads to vision and there is too much to discover in one lifetime.

Willful ignorance is more prevalent in the US-apathy, compliance, fear and hate. They hide in their bibles, each interpreting the stories there differently but all fearing anyone different.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
42. It should be obvious religious people have a lack of intellectual curiosity....
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 08:50 PM
Apr 2016

considering there are 100s of gods that all have followers that have very little in common.

Most just believe it because they are raised from en early age to believe it.

Face it, religion is geographically based. That is most of what makes someone a certain religion.



eniwetok

(1,629 posts)
20. Jesus Thom... you read and post at DU and not in your own forum?
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 01:57 PM
Apr 2016

That is, of course, if it's you. If so... shame for creating a forum then never citing any posts from it.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
21. Science is great... unless it doesn't validate our biases about religion or marijuana
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 02:00 PM
Apr 2016

Science is great... unless it doesn't validate our biases about religion or marijuana-- then it's a flawed study, a hoax or merely poor science.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
30. Heresy doth never prosper
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 08:42 PM
Apr 2016

What's the reason?

For if it prosper then none dare call it heresy...

Hat tip to John Harington

 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
27. Thom! That you? You should recognize bullshit when you see it.
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 02:54 PM
Apr 2016

Intelligence vs. empathy? An ambitious study!

--imm

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
28. I'm a pantheist, and think the "Golden Rule" is as much a natural physical law
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 06:23 PM
Apr 2016

as gravity is a natural physical law.

If that somehow makes me stupid, then my ignorance is bliss. I'd never presume to tell anyone else what they should believe.

ladyVet

(1,587 posts)
31. For some reason, this bit made me laugh really hard:
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:09 AM
Apr 2016
maybe intelligent people are not that keen on metaphor


I can't stop snickering even now.

Let me tell you the story of a kind, decent man who was corrupted by religion. Well, the gist of it is, he stopped being a kind, decent man. He became a hater. A weak person who literally could not make a decision unless his pastor told him which was the "right" choice. An adulterer with a "get out of sin free" card, who judged others while he sinned.

Personal observation, true, but he's not the only one I've seen this happen to. Religion short circuits the thinking mechanism. That makes you stupid. One can argue about the methodology, but it is what it is.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
34. all the smarts in the world won't help if you don't think critically and challenge assumptions.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 05:32 AM
Apr 2016

I think smarter people naturally tend towards curiosity, and vice-versa, but the the fastest Lamborghini in the world still won't break any speed records if you leave it in the garage.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
36. Less ethical.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 07:58 AM
Apr 2016

Religious people are why LGBT are mistreated in this world. All they care about is money and self.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
37. Oh and OP- blind links are rude.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 08:02 AM
Apr 2016

You should post an excerpt and you should comment in thread and not use this community like some wall to spray your rhetorical graffiti on.

 

mr blur

(7,753 posts)
38. Well, they lack the ability to distingush between fantasy and reality, for a start.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:09 PM
Apr 2016

And they talk to themselves a lot.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
39. Cicero was smart.
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 02:19 PM
Apr 2016

I'd go so far as to say he was wise:

"There in fact a true law - namely, right reason - which is in accordance with nature,
applies to all men, and is unchangeable and eternal. By its commands this law summons men
to the performance of their duties; by its prohibitions it restrains them from doing wrong. Its
commands and prohibitions always influence good men, but are without effect upon the bad. To
invalidate this law by human legislation is never morally right, nor is it permissible ever to
restrict its operation , and to annul it wholly is impossible. Neither the senate nor the people
can absolve us from our obligation to obey this law, and it requires no Sextus Aelius to expound
and interpret it. It will not lay down one rule at Rome and another at Athens, nor will it be
one rule to-day and another tomorrow. But there will be one law, eternal and
unchangeable, binding at all times upon all peoples; and there will be, as it were, one common
master and ruler of men, namely God, who is the author of this law, its interpreter, and its
sponsor. The man who will not obey it will abandon his better self, and, in denying the true
nature of a man, will thereby suffer the severest of penalties, though he has escaped all the other
consequences which men call punishments." – Marcus Tullius Cicero

PDF: http://www.kentlaw.edu/faculty/bbrown/classes/HumanRightsSP10/CourseDocs/1READINGSON.pdf



Thank you for the heads-up, thomhartmann! It's not surprising to those who think -- especially for think for themselves.

struggle4progress

(118,320 posts)
40. Conflict between science, religion lies in our brains
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 03:10 PM
Apr 2016

March 23, 2016
Case Western Reserve University

... In a series of eight experiments, the researchers found the more empathetic the person, the more likely he or she is religious ...

Atheists, the researchers found, are most closely aligned with psychopaths -- not killers, but the vast majority of psychopaths classified as such due to their lack of empathy for others.

The new study is published in the online journal PLOS ONE. The other authors are Jared Friedman, a research assistant and recent graduate in Philosophy and Cognitive Science who will begin his PhD in organizational behavior at Case Western Reserve in the fall, and Scott Taylor, assistant professor of organizational behavior at Babson College ...

Friedman said, "Having empathy doesn't mean you necessarily have anti-scientific beliefs. Instead, our results suggest that if we only emphasize analytic reasoning and scientific beliefs, as the New Atheist movement suggests, then we are compromising our ability to cultivate a different type of thinking, namely social/moral insight" ...


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160323151838.htm

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
45. Thom, if you're going to post your stuff here, at least stick around and...
Sun Apr 10, 2016, 09:07 PM
Apr 2016

...engage in the discussion. Otherwise you're just spamming.

And, please, don't just post a link and then you're done with it. An excerpt would be nice so we know if we even want to click on the link.

The article is crap, by the way.

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