It has been proven how easy it is to flip votes remotely.

I can think of no reason why TPTB wouldn't have done so.

In Virginia, I travel around the state for business. The results in Virginia do not come close to giving a picture of what I saw on the ground all over the state leading up to our Primary. I simply do not believe she won this state 65-35. No fucking way.

We need to organize and change how we vote immediately.

In nothing but a feathered neck scarf.

which are notoriously undemocratic, why not question his wins?

being counted? i agree thought that caucuses disenfranchise.

believe that because Clinton has a harder time with them. I would be curious if you believe that using super-duper-delegates is democratic.

Primary voting has had horrible examples of failing the democracy test. I remember in 2000 when thousands and thousands of AA were not allowed to vote because their polling places had machines that didn't work, or not enough machines. Something similar happened recently in AZ. The Ruling Class has a much harder time rigging caucuses than primary votes counted by machines.

Not whistle-blowers, not investigative journalists, not protestors, not OWS, Life is sooo much easier living in a bubble of denial.

continue to fight for our democracy that you seem to be comfortable without. Hid in your status quo bubble trying to ignore the struggles going on all around you.

and you're so fucking brilliant.

the reason her wins seem so unimaginable for some people, is because white people have substantially fewer POC friends than other races do.

Including my sister and her mixed family, and my dearest friends whose skin tone ranges nicely across the color spectrum. My neighborhood is very mixed, too.

Did I turn everybody white?

And that will only be because so many Bernie supporters will be there.

you learned something new that changed your political attitude?

many Bernie supporters in the Tidewater, Richmond and NoVa regions of all backgrounds and ethnicity. The tally is not believable.

Maybe she has, I just woke up. As far as primaries, her workers won the organization, not her speeches. So many women are just voting for a woman, not a President. The undercurrent of her campaign is very dark and deep. She does not want to be so soundly defeated and embarrassed like last time she ran. Alot of her team is sinister. Manipulating the machines is too easy and nefarious results have plagued elections since 2000.

unfortunately the Dem Party - under Dino Deb - wants it like this.

We have to get her the hell out as part of the process

So the results didn't match your subjective, anecdotal survey? Stop the fucking presses!

This shit is getting ridiculous.

When the other candidate wins, only shenanigans can explain it. This line of argument is laughably transparent.

According to Bev Harris at www.blackboxvoting.org, the software is being programmed in fractions not units. One unit = one vote. In fractions you can fix any election to your favor.

we have history with her.

But she's right in this case.

She knows all about this stuff. We need her!

She's a fucking scam artist and what she did to Andy Stephenson assures her a nice spot in hell.

to voting issues; but like you I can neither forget nor forgive her treatment of Andy.

Anyone want to fill me in?

I was curious myself..

[link:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/13/121559/-|

Bev truly was toxic, not only regarding Andy, but towards many DUers, and especially towards skinner, and DU as a discussion board.

But in regards to who is chosen to have the ability to actually use them, just chill. It's not like choosing who will be the most powerful person in the world provides motivation enough for anyone to try to manipulate the returns. Why would anyone bother to do that?

Every vote should be recounted.

Follow it up automatically with an official hand count (no waiting for a candidate to challenge the results in court-- AUTOMATICALLY).

cook county clerk, responsible for suburban cook county elections.
paper ballots, counter as they are put in the ballot box. the number of ballots are monitored and had better match up at the end of the night with the ballot counter. (there are touch screens, to accommodate voters who are handicapped or who have language problems, or provisional votes. anyone can use them, but judges tell me no one WANTS to use them. usually only have a handful of votes.)

most people dont know about the post election audits that actually are done in most places (afaik). they are done very quietly. but orr reports out the results of the audits, which he includes in his frequent emails.
he is one of the good ones.

I did not know about the post-election audits.

One further detail: early voting, which has been growing in popularity, is all touch screens.

have only done it once, because i had to.
nonetheless, here, the machines are also audited. the paper trails are matched to the totals.

people should vote absentee instead, which is a paper ballot. here we have what they call "no fault absentee". in the past you have to prove you could not vote on election day, but you no longer have to have a reason. a little more cumbersome than early voting, but worth the trouble.

We fed our ballots into the machines. I did not look to see what kind, however.

the entire Constitution is set up on a system of checks and balances

we the people should be the check on our election results but when numbers are aggravated by computers we have no way to oversee that count

i am sure some election officials are trying hard to run free and fair elections but there is just too much proof out there elections can be manipulated electronically to "trust" it does not happen

bernie lost illinois by about 36,000 votes and there are about 100,000 precincts so flipping illinois would of taken a couple votes per precinct on the average...that small of a change (even if it was caught in an audit) would not meet the requirement for a full hand count

the humbolt county project , where ballots were scanned, and released so everyone could double check the count found one entire category of votes dropped

http://humtp.com/page3.html

The software error reportedly first came to Bowen's attention after Humboldt County Registrar of Voters Carolyn Crnich informed her office that the first-of-its-kind Humboldt County Election Transparency Project found that 197 vote-by-mail ballots, which had been scanned through vote counting machines, mysteriously disappeared from the final ballot tally as tabulated by the GEMS software.

The problem was traced to a programming error with the specific version of the software used in Humboldt -- a programming error that sometimes results in the first deck of ballots scanned through the vote counting machine, known as “Deck 0,” vanishing without a trace from the final results.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////

audits with small samples would not have caught that

something similar happened recently with the w virginia ag race....it was a citizen reporting that there were not enough of the absentee ballots being reported

after much back and forth between election officials and the citizen, the eo relented and "found" around 3000 absentee ballots had been dropped

////////////////////////////

in summary i believe that unless the average citizen can oversee the entire election process it is not free or fair or worthy of the label democracy

here the election judges are required to post the tape at the end of the night. if "we the people" want to make sure that is what got recorded, it is not that hard to do. it does take legwork, but it is doable.

the audits are observed by citizens, tho they are pretty much hand picked by the clerk. i am sure that if people were aware of this, and wanted to observe, they would be allowed. i dont know what the threshold for a full recount is, but i suspect that a pattern of a vote or 2 per precinct would at least trigger a bigger audit.

an informed and active "we the people" could make a bigger difference than they think.
most importantly, we need good citizens to serve as election judges. in smaller districts, that is often the case. here in chi, with so many polling places, unfortunately the people who are available for a grueling day for a pittance are not always the sharpest knives in the drawer. or the most honest. and i know from my own experience that it is hard to get rid of some of them.

anybody who is concerned about the integrity of elections should do their duty and be a judge. employers should be required to give people the day off to do so. (and the next day to recover. lol)

step but we have no way of knowing that the tape results are accurate

old link, don't know what has changed

http://www.cookcountyclerk.com/newsroom/newsfromclerk/pages/DiscoveryRecountInformation040913.aspx

Discovery Recounts:

A losing candidate whose vote total equals or exceeds 95 percent of the vote for a winning candidate has the statutory right to a discovery recount. The discovery recount allows a losing candidate to petition the County Clerk’s office to retabulate ballots in up to 25 percent of the precincts within the relevant district. If a district has 1, 2, or 3 precincts, one precicnt is retabulated. This retabulation has no effect on the results of the election. It is simply an evidence-gathering exercise.

Example: if a winning candidate received 100 votes and the losing candidate received 95 votes, the losing candidate has the right to a discovery recount. If the losing candidate had received only 94 votes, he or she would have no right to a discovery recount.

An eligible candidate must file a petition for discovery recount with the County Clerk’s office within five days after the last day for the proclamation of results (21 days after the election). This year the deadline for filing a petition for discovery recount is May 6, 2013. The petition must list the precincts the petitioner wishes to have recounted and include a payment of ten dollars per precinct. Multi-county districts or districts that overlap suburban Cook County and Chicago require independent filings in each jurisdiction and are limited to 25 percent of the precincts in the relevant district in each jurisdiction.

The right to a discovery recount also exists for referenda. If the losing side in a referendum gets more than 47.5 percent of the vote (or exactly 47.5 percent, if the losing side is “No”), five voters can petition for a discovery recount.
Election Contests:

If a candidate wishes to contest the results of an election, he or she must file a lawsuit in the Circuit Court. This lawsuit is known as a petition for election contest. The petition for election contest must be filed with the Clerk of the Circuit Court within thirty days of the actual date of proclamation of results by the relevant proclaiming body. The County Clerks have 21 days to proclaim and the State Board of Elections has 10 days after that.

Example: If the County Clerk’s office proclaimed the election results for a County office on April 30, a losing candidate who wishes to contest the results must file a petition for election contest with the Clerk of the Circuit Court by May 30.

Exception: Election contests involving Statewide Constitutional offices must be filed with the Supreme Court, within 15 days of the proclamation by the State Board of Elections. The filing fee for a state-wide contest is $10,000.

///////////

what jumps out at me is "re tabulate" the ballots, so no hand count

and the 10 grand cost

Print the ballot results - so that you use your ticket to validate what was printed, was actually what was reported you voted for.....giggle giggle....

If you are going to check and verify - you need the information that enables you to check and verify.... Giggle giggle.

Print in the major newspapers and/or provide the results online....

people can get the totals from the polling place at the end of the night and make sure that is actually what gets reported. wouldnt catch everything, but would help.

here results are printed by both major papers, down to the precinct level.

They can do it to the ballot level - and still maintains privacy...

internet so anyone can watch in real time. Along witht eh usual verification of at least two people from different parties checking and tabulating.

The burden of proof should be on the state that votes are counted accurately. It shouldn't be necessary to show beyond a doubt that a conspiracy to steal elections has occurred before any problems can be fixed.

Imagine showing up at a bank where heaps of cash are stored in the bank lobby in open cardboard cartons. Complain to the manager and all you get is, "Nobody's ever proven to me that any money's been lost."

47th out of 47! U.S.A.!

Interesting how all of these uniquely American solutions (such as ObamaCare) leave the corporations in the driver's seat. I'm not sure what business they have running our health insurance, and there is no way they should have anything to do with the code in unaccountable electronic voting machines.

Let's hope this is tin-foil stuff, but there should be no uncertainty in something this important, it needs to be 100% accountable to the people.

As far as flipping electronic voting machines, what do we do about it? I suppose if you really believe that, you should support Hillary, since corporate America probably likes her enough to be reasonably honest, especially against Trump or Cruz. But, clearly, if this article is correct, then Bernie really doesn't have a chance. Not only does Wall Street dislike him, so does the establishment.

That said, Bernie's no fool. He knows how to play the system, too. Bernie sure played the system well in Nevada, just as Republicans are doing with voter ID laws. Everything is completely legal and completely aboveboard, but takes advantage of the legal system and the election rules to disenfranchise voters so that your guy can win even if he didn't get the most votes.

The whole system is complicit.

MADISON, Wis. (AP) — A government computer system crash caused headaches for Wisconsin election clerks trying to access voter registration information on Friday, the last day residents could turn in absentee ballots.

The Government Accountability Board, which oversees Wisconsin elections, said it also received calls from a handful of residents who said they couldn't obtain a driver's license or state identification card. Residents will be required to show a photo ID before voting during Tuesday's primary elections.

The GAB said the outage lasted roughly three hours, beginning at 8:45 a.m. The state Department of Transportation said it wasn't clear how many people weren't able to get IDs because of the computer problems. GAB attorney Mike Hass said his agency received several calls about the outage, but said only a handful of people were affected.

County and municipal clerks couldn't access poll books or the state's voter registration system during the outage. They still conducted absentee voting but efforts were delayed because they couldn't immediately verify voters' registration information, the GAB said in a news release...

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/article/Server-failure-cuts-clerks-from-Wisconsin-voter-7222482.php

For more info on computer vote hacking, Google "Spoonamore electronic vote hacking."

Voting won't work to stop it. Calling our elected official will not work because they don't care about the little people. I guess the only thing left to do is take to the streets by the tens to hundreds of thousands and shut this country down for about 90-days or more. It may not accomplish much, but it may get the PTB attention. I say what we really need is a good old fashioned French style revolution to put the fear of God into the people at the top. A La Lanterne!

force the changes we need!

that the PTB will let Bernie anywhere near the White House no mater how massive the votes for him will be, they have too much power and money to lose. Again we are back to hacked voting machines.

Either way, he and the rest of us will not stop and the movement will continue to grow!

I live in Blue Oregon. We vote by mail on paper ballots that can be recounted to verify
the results of close elections, as needed.

I love vote by mail, as it avoids all the skulduggery of long lines in poor or mostly Democratic
precincts, turning people away over ID issues, "running out" of ballots, etc; and it
elegantly prevents vulnerability e-vote hacking/flipping.

The vote is verified by signature as a legal protection and there are stiff penalties for voter fraud.

Vote-by-mail also does not require voters to take time off work, can be done at ones leisure
without feeling rushed through the voting booth. Some like to have "mini-caucuses" where friends
& neighbors meet-up to discuss candidates and issues before voting.

Every state in the nation could adopt this at the state level, the only barrier being obstructionist GOP
Governors and/or Secretaries of State; who voters can recall and/or defeat in the next election of
state officeholders ... but ONLY if voters rise up in unison and demand change, because this isn't
(or shouldn't be) a "partisan" issue. It's about saving our democratic form of government.

Mail in ballots would cure a lot. As of now I think there is only about 5-states that have mail in ballots. The states down South will never go for it as it would mean fair elections in those states and everyone would get to vote. Controlling the people is what the repugs are all about.
Thanks for your thoughts.

I'm convinced.
http://www.amazon.com/CODE-RED-Computerized-Election-American/dp/1500319856

Sanders would be winning the Democratic nomination but for Clinton cheating. I read it at the link.

--disenfranchisement will not come back to bite her in November if she is the nominee?

and has been since last year.

It's a national problem and the DOJ is leaning on states about it. It's investigating the AZ fiasco.

Clinton supporters care every bit as much, if not more, about voter disenfranchisement as do Sanders supporters.

So, your moral superiority dance is not appreciated.

...their persistent belief that nobody would actually WANT to vote for Hillary Clinton...

Therefore, the votes didn't happen (vote rigging) or the voters were misinformed (media bias) or were "Confederate State" voters (not real Democrats).

Same applies to Superdelegates: none of them would actually have a good reason to support her; they're all opportunistic sell-outs or political cowards, and as soon as Bernie makes a better argument they'll all shift.

On Mon Apr 4, 2016, 01:10 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Is the 2016 Election Already Being Stripped and Flipped?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027736931

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Conspiracy theory accusing Democrats of stealing ejections. Plus, it lies about who was ahead in Massachusetts polls. And wrong forum.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Apr 4, 2016, 01:15 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: What is this I don't even
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: That would be a decision for hosts to make, not a jury.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The article reports on a real academic study, then uses it to go off on an unfounded tirade against Clinton. This is not a post about the Harvard study, it is an anti-Hillary screed disguised as a news link. Hide.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Stop abusing the alert system.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Ridiculous alert.

just read the OP and not the anti-Hillary, conspiracy laden article it linked.

Being 'anti-Hillary', or 'conspiracy laden', are grounds for moving it to a different forum or group, which is done by hosts. You knew that, didn't you?

a good point.

and that's what this post is about. Apparently some feel as though this is a non-issue as long as their candidate wins.

And doing nothing to stop disenfranchisement is complete bullshit.

then what the hell is the point? When I vote for dirty, when my own party is dirty, I'm effectively endorsing dirty, no?

While I understand republicons obstructed, why continue to vote for a party that cannot or does not get the basics done? I cast my first vote for Jimmy Carter. My second for vote was for Obama in 2008. All of my other votes have been against the republican. There is really something wrong with that equation.

The CT deniers here are as bad as people that believe every CT they ever hear.

Question: Why does Bernie win most caucuses but not Primaries?
Answer: Caucuses have witnesses.

Sour grapes crazy talk.

Massive crowds on the Bernie sides, barely anyone on the HRC sides. How do you spin that as a win?

Sanders wins big time in caucuses, he loses big time in primaries.

I think we have different understandings of why that might be.

by people with schedule conflicts.

And the vote tallying is far more transparent as well.

which is what happened in Utah.

Caucuses are forms of vote suppression, and they are inferior to primaries as a form of democracy.

Primaries do seem more democratic at face value. Still, it's difficult to compare caucuses to primaries directly because caucus goer numbers are not tallied or released.

I thought we had a right to a "secret ballot".

But, I hear from my right wing inlaws..Obama only won because of massive voter fraud. They believe it unless they win, and with voter suppression, they keep winning, and gaining more power for more voter suppression laws to be passed and gerrymandered districts to be drawn. Everyone is marginalized except the "winners."

"In the long run, only universal automatic voter registration, a four-day national holiday for voting, universal hand-counted paper ballots and other reforms will guarantee us a fair and reliable vote count. Posted at www.freepress.org, we call it the “Ohio Plan.”


WHEN THE PEOPLE CAN HAVE THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

**************Because we still have a guy and treasonous one at that, by the name of Karl Rove (Valerie Plame)-------/ Koch and there Lackey's--------------Smartech still holding these "machines&quot *******************

So lets be prepared ----------------------I am....................I got my phone, with a camera/video......................

http://blackboxvoting.org/

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/15/virginia-hacking-voting-machines-security

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-15/american-democracy-money-super-delegates-hacked-voting-machines

about Arizona.

yep, she cares. totally.

we have to convince all GOP voters that their votes register for the
OPPOSITE party

An American Tradition.

Imagine getting a complete ballot three weeks before the election.
You have time to read, study and cast your vote conveniently from the comforts of your home.
Fill out your ballot, sign it, put it in the envelope and put on a stamp, place in mailbox.
When you apply for a drivers license you are automatically registered.
Oregon has one of the highest voting rates for a reason.
No standing in line.
No dubious hack-able computer touch screen.
Plus it saves the state millions in cost.
Win, win, win.

We can vote nekkid!

I tried that, but they got really upset when I tried dropping off my ballot at the post office.

Damn those tazers hurt!

publicly hand counting is the only true solution

vote by mail does increase access but i worry about the chain of custody

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6650

full of votes found in an abandon garage, months after the election was over. Did a Postal worker steal it? Or did someone make arrangements to grab those votes and disgard them. I don't recall the SOURCE but I remember reading the story...

Ugh...not anything to be proud of America.

These things are mostly subject to state law, so solutions can be mandated by state legislatures

I live in Blue Oregon. We vote by mail on paper ballots that can be recounted to verify
the results of close elections, as needed.

I love vote by mail, as it avoids all the skulduggery of long lines in poor or mostly Democratic
precincts, turning people away over ID issues, "running out" of ballots, etc; and it
elegantly prevents vulnerability to e-vote hacking/flipping.

The vote is verified by signature as a legal protection and there are stiff penalties for voter fraud.

Vote-by-mail also does not require voters to take time off work, can be done at ones leisure
without feeling rushed through the voting booth. Some like to have "mini-caucuses" where friends
& neighbors meet-up to discuss candidates and issues before voting.

Every state in the nation could adopt this at the state level, the only barrier being obstructionist GOP
Governors and/or Secretaries of State; who voters can recall and/or defeat in the next election of
state officeholders ... but ONLY if voters rise up in unison and demand change, because this isn't
(or shouldn't be) a "partisan" issue. It's about saving our democratic form of government.

Oregon also just became one of the first states to adopt "automatic voter registration" with drivers'
licenses, which a voter needs to opt-out of if they choose to be unregistered.

I'm very proud of our state's election laws, and wish the rest of the nation would join us in putting
an end to election fraud permanently.

A "jury duty" type process for counting votes. use a paper ballot that is scanned and if there is any recount needed, citizens are summoned to count the ballots in groups of 3 so you have no chance of one person counting the ballots and tossing them all in the GOP pile.

Last edited Mon Apr 4, 2016, 07:40 PM - Edit history (2)

. . . objectively demonstrates just how poorly run our voting


protection/verification systems are here.

We are running a third-world system.

They are trying their damndest to flip this election. W ushered in the era of in-your-face cheating. Cheaters must cheat to win.

People yearn for honor and honesty, that's what Bernie is about.

to be President, there's not a damn thing we can do about it.

away the voice of the Republicans, but we saw what George W. BUSH did in 2000, and he wasn't even as popular as Trump.