college campus promising students trillions in new entitlements that Sanders knows he cannot get through Congress. That is neither credible or truthful IMO.

Karl, is that you?

Marco? Donald?

Women were not arbitrarily awarded the right to vote. Slavery didn't end of itself.

I'm sure the Republican minority said we can never have a Clean Water Act or Clean Air Act. Things we believe in must be fought for. You don't start by saying, "No we can't!"

Bernie is being truthful. He said whatever we want to accomplish, like free college tuition, will require a political revolution. The entire makeup of the congress will be changed. There will be a congress willing to do as the people want. This will be revolutionary.

You nay sayers will be sitting in the corner in sadness.

"If there is no struggle, there is no progress"
"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."
Frederick Douglass

Go Bernie!

It isn't pie in the sky.

He's saying "Vote for me and if elected I will fight for this". There's a big difference. Furthermore that is what EVERY candidate does. I don't know what candidate you support but he/she is also stating support for a great many things that will be difficult or impossible to get through Congress.

So very, very true.

... hear what other people TELL them Bernie's message is.

======================

(read in a heavy whisper) It's a revolution - not a gift-fest.

Clearly they do not share a vision of the future where we have more monetary equality among the masses.

who won't fight for us?

A defeatist's word

Don't let what you can't do
Interfere with what you can do.

His/her parents must have not read 'The Little Engine That Could" to them

on their asses. Then let's see what it is.

You can't think ahead any farther than that?

He began the movement and his supporters will see its carried on. I've read this is the continuation of the Occupy movement. That was not viable in its nebulous form but Bernie has stayed on points so much that the message forward is clean politics without money being equal to speech as it all is driven by billionaires and Wall Street in particular

It was tuition-free and part of the City University of NY. Congress had, and has nothing to do with it.

If you don't try for it, you sure as he-- won't get it. If you fight hard enough for it, and follow the right path to it, you CAN get it! And our country WILL be better for it! (Just ask the guy who was President when our country got a better health-care plan--I think his name was Barocko Bama or something similar.....)

We had a lot of good things 50 years ago that have disappeared.

we can do it again

Right Hillary?

Sanders promises us nothing but the chance to change things by voting for someone who believes in change. Are you so greedy that education is too great a gift to give to your fellow american.

I am surprised how many selfish people are now the democratic party.

First, The People must be rallied to insist on life's necessities which you derisively refer to as entitlements.

Then, we can elect representatives who are motivated to achieve these goals. Too many current members of Congress are beholden to their deep pocket campaign contributors and will never be part of the necessary political coalition.

"Weaksauce Status Quo for Everyone!" is pretty lame as slogans go.

Thank you. It was a disaster because they ran weak candidates who would not even say out!our Obama or ACA for fear!!

That's the only way it can be done. From the bottom - up. Not top - down.

For years we have been listening to Sen. Sanders on Thom Hartmann's Brunch With Bernie show. We learned that Bernie shared our visions of what this nation should be. Through Thom we learned that the most successful of leaders are the one's who get in front of existing movements. For years callers into that Brunch With Bernie show have begged Bernie to throw his hat into the ring. This cycle Bernie told us that he felt America might be ready for a revolution-a revolution away from the status quo.

Those of us who have been paying attention are soooooo ready for the this revolution to have a revolution leader! Bernie did not start that revolution, it has been ongoing before Bernie threw his hat in the ring! Remember Occupy Wall Street? It did not have a leader, Bernie's run is an outgrowth of it. Much of what OCW is calling for Bernie is calling for. The huge problem with student debt is affecting hundreds of thousands across our land, a citizen's revolution was going to happen here anyway Bernie has stepped up to lead it!

So essentially you are right, this grass roots movement IS from the bottom up and we need as many of us on the bottom as we can get....come join us.

You said that movements are bottom up not top down. I just agreed and supported that. Now you appear to say it doesn't work that way AND take a shot at me by saying "talk is cheap"? Wow!

That's how the Tea Party did it. There are no shortcuts to building a movement.

As fans of Thom Hartmann know, it was well funded by the Koch Brothers so it wasn't a true bottom up movement. Quite often their elected candidates faced the choice of seving the electorate or serving corporate masters of the GOP-which caused fits to both powers!

I agree with your clarification, as Thom says, 'All politics are local, they start from the ground up'-(or something like that)

Revolutions are too.

Ask any Tea Party member and to a man they want their government back. Guess what, that's what all of us anti-oligarchy types here at DU want too! We recognize that business as usual politics won't get it done.

Many conservatives are figuring this out too (finally) which explains the Trump movement. The revolution is already underway and both Bernie and 'The Donald' have chosen to get out in front of it.

Should Bernie or Trump get their party nomination there are no guarantees that the aformentioned revolution will add the local or Congressional help they need to get this done. That said, politics as usual has a proven track record of not getting things done.


It is called The Sanders Revolution for a reason...it's your choice...the revolution could use your help but you can stick with the status quo. I dunno, it seems to me the old addage about insanity being doing the same thing again and again while expecting different results fits. We need to try something different imho.

It was funded and helped along by RW radio and Fox.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brendan-demelle/study-confirms-tea-party-_b_2663125.html

You have to have to get money out of politics before you can start a 'revolution' no matter how much the people want it. The DNC financed conservative Democrats over liberal Democrats, and at least in one case (Florida) help a Republican get elected. Until politicians listen to the average person, the average person loses. A politician, at this moment in time (except for Bernie), doesn't get election money from the average person. He who gives the money gets the politicians ear and the politician's action.

Z

Just another morsel from Jane Meyer's excellent book "Dark Money". What I was referring to when I said grass roots bottom-up was not the funding but, rather, the approach to getting candidates elected to the state and federal legislatures.

There are people here who have been involved on the ground in politics and have seen, first hand, that the DNC has denied money to progressive candidates. When you have only local funding against a candidate that has DNC backing, failure is predictable.

Z

Whenever the voters aren't motivated to show up, it is ALWAYS a Failure of Leadership.
It is the JOB of Leadership to motivate the troops.

While blaming the voters may feel good to the partisans, it is NEVER productive.
If Leadership has the Moral strength and integrity to assess where and how they have FAILED the voters, then the problem can be fixed.

But a political revolution is the only way these goals will be accomplished.

Bernie Sanders is telling the truth when he says we need a political revolution, and I agree with him on the goals.

If we don't make the effort we have zero chance to succeed.

Building a movement. And a strong one!

Those folks are gonna find other names on their ballots besides Bernie's.

They seem to think the party can survive using neo-liberal policies...thankfully the younger generations are repulsed by their behavior.

Hmmm....

You have busted our trust in your credibility.

have the votes in Congress to deliver a Republican talking point ?

Hey, I got booted from your Home Group for talking like that. Course, it wasn't Bernie I was talking about.

He doesn't have the votes. That's a fact. All you have to do is look at Republican obstruction over the past seven years.

It is not pie in the sky. We had it before. Many developed countries provide it. It is economically smart.

It should be used as a wedge against the Republicans. Using it negatively to win a nomination is not a Democratic thing to do.

Telling us we are too poor a country and it cannot be done is a Republican thing to think and say. They are the ones that tell us we can't have the same health care and edcuation that other developed countries have, while at the same time funding the biggest military machine on earth--that's a Republican thing.

It doesn't matter if it can't be done immediately. It can be fought for and eventually we will win. However, if you pooh pooh it just to ram through Hillary, I can guarantee you it will never get done.

having that kind of power.

Someone above said that you have to have a political coalition to attack these problems. Absolutely correct. However, if you don't offer something strikingly different from the status quo you will not be able to build that political coalition.

No, they started with a grass roots effort because that's the only way to do it. Does it not occur to Sanders's supporters that he chooses to bypass that step because he's a 74 year old man ?

You are indeed a tiresome and uninspiring person.

The Tea Party started up with conservative dark money backing the group from people like the Koch brothers. You sure don't seem to know very much, maybe sit this one out and listen to more educated folks.

The process starts at the legislative levels first. Not the executive level.

maybe, just maybe, running someone at the top of the ticket who will fight for change is the way to help get the power in Congress that we need.

Your recommendation seems to be


1. Nominate a candidate who doesn't want/won't fight for change

2. A miracle happens

3. We suddenly have lots of congressional power to change things

4. Change!

I don't see that happening, either.

Same shit, different 'concerned' poster.

Fiscal year 2017 entitlement payments will be set at 90% of what they would have been for fiscal year 2016.

dirty word.

We are entitled to a society and a system of governance that provides basics, like food, housing, healthcare and education to everyone. The earth's resources and the labor that converts them into usable energy belong to all. Any other premise is anti-democratic and therefore unjust.

College Welfare. Frankly, if the little miscreants had to start paying up from the get go, they would take first grade a little more seriously. And establishing good credit before you're ten should be a part of the American Dream. But I will draw the line at any rate over 28%! NO WAY!

Let's just assume I have no candidate, no position on Bernie vs Hillary, just for the moment.

Oppose Bernie please without using the right wing phrases and implications.

I beg all of us that, anybody here who says they are a liberal, please.

He maybe talking to Students but lots of Parents are directly involved and responsible for helping Students with College tuition.
You do not what price a Student or their Parents have paid in life that is effecting their ability to pay tuition.

How about Colleges being Tax exempt? I pay taxes so is this really an entitlement?

I served in Iraq and the price of service destroyed my Family and directly impacted all my children for the worse.
My Daughter is Senior in High School and College is looking to be out of reach.
Did I pay a high enough price to be Entitled that my child gets a good education?

Families systematically discriminated against. Did they pay a high enough price to be Entitled to Education?

You want a real Truth Buster? Who are you to decide what are Entitlements what should be an Idea and Ideal that would better this Country.

What would we be fighting for? To make the world safe for war profiteers and Halliburton?

We can have tuition free state colleges for young people. Fuck anyone that says we can't!

Also, just because you do not see something does not mean that a Person, Family, or Society has not already paid the price.

The word used to be "benefits", as in Veteran's Benefits or "One of the benefits of being a citizen".

Calling it an "entitlement" invokes images of moochers sponging off the system thinking they are ENTITLED to YOUR money.

the Republicans hmmm? It'd make the last several years of obstructionism seem like a walk in the park.

People knows that Bernie Sanders' stump speech lists things he'll try to do.

"We'll make college tuition free" is part of an an inspiring speech which sets the agenda for the decades ahead.

If instead he said, "I'll try to make college tuition free, but the Republican House will stop me," it wouldn't be inspiring.

They have lost their credibility because they have not been truthful. The media continues to allow narrow interests to dictate the narrative (The MIC, Wall Street, Insurance, Fossil fuel) .

If the media imagines they can continue in this manner they are sadly mistaken.

On Sunday Evening CBS allowed an unusual segment to be shown on 60 Minutes. That will not absolve them of their years of complicity. But it might suck in a few thousand more viewers. I won't be one of them. They do this to set us up for a bigger lie.

Edward R. Murrow would roll over in his grave.

Reporting candidates equally. Stop fawning over Trump!

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

director of USIA. Propaganda is persuasive. Hard news should not be.

disagrees. They've taken us down the rabbit hole.

I loved Murrow. Thank heavens for Thom Hartmann, Amy Goodman and Ed Schultz on FSTV and RT.

The media has spent the last week and this week talking about how Sanders thinks HRC isn't qualified to be president. Of course they never give the reasons why he said it (panama papers), just that he said it. For the uniformed it makes it look like Sanders is talking out of his ass. For those who keep up with the real news we know that she is has corporate interest at heart.

And its not just limited to Sanders. There's:

Ebola

Anthrax

Terror Alerts

Isis alerts

Lying about the war efforts

Howard Dean

TPP

Ferguson

Baltimore Riots

The list just goes on and on!

They seem to get believed regardless of their carelessness.

It is ALL right-wing corporate propaganda and EVERYBODY who watches it is being indoctrinated whether they know it or not.

and everyone associated with Fox News.

And the MSM thinks ratcheting up their propaganda is the answer to that.

Or, "Waterboarding is not torture. I'll prove it, I'll volunteer to be waterboarded."