General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI had the whole "let's break America into Blue and Red countries" discussion again this weekend.
I know it's never going to happen, obviously, but it's still a fun thought experiment.
Blue America would become basically like a European country politically. Stronger safety net, unions, high-speed rail, and all that. But Red America would become unimaginably right-wing. They would slash taxes, which would lead to huge deficits, even after they also slash social programs. And they'd also face the problem that blue states currently subsidize red states by paying more federal income taxes.
There would be a lot of things to be worked out of, course. Economically, it would end up being a free-trade zone like the EU, probably keeping the dollar as common currency (unless Red America decides to go back to the gold standard). But one big question is what happens with the military. Would there be more warmongering or less? On one hand, Red America would be controlled by hawks with very little opposition. But on the other, they'd only have half as big of an Army as the US does now.
I think, overall, I'd be in favor of a split-up (and, again, I know it's never going to happen). There are so many good things that would happen in Blue America, policies that are held back purely by the GOP now. However, I live in a blue state (I live in NY now, my screen name is where I lived when I joined DU), and the flip side is that people in Red States would suffer quite a bit, particularly minorities and women (for example, abortion would no doubt be criminalized on day 1). But I would hope that after a few decades of watching Blue America thrive and Red America fall behind, maybe the right-wingers would wake up and realize that supply side economics really doesn't work after all.
I'm sure a lot of other DUers have toyed with this idea from time to time. What are your thoughts?
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)with each other within a year.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Is at odds with every other country in the developed world.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)politics in Europe, is it?
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)it's like opposite land, especially when you include the date.
It's the little differences that matter.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Yeah, y/m/d is definitely the way to go. And so is the metric system. Also, not having guns everywhere, and everyone being able to see a doctor...
On the other hand, that driving on the wrong side of the street thing is sheer lunacy...
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Or is that something else I've got wrong? The NHS is only as good as the money put into it, and the Tories are trying to screw ours up. With some rather tragic results.
A body believed to be that of a missing junior doctor has been found, police said.
Rose Polge, 25, who worked at Torbay Hospital in Devon, has not been seen since 12 February.
A woman's body was recovered from the sea east of Portland Bill headland in Dorset on 1 April, police said, but it has not yet been formally identified.
Dr Polge's family have been informed said the Devon and Cornwall force in a statement.
The doctor's car was found in February at Ansteys Cove near Torquay, the town where she worked.
In a statement, the force said: "Police are currently working on the belief that the body is that of 25-year-old missing person Rose Polge, from Torquay.
"Devon and Cornwall Police are working with Dorset Police and the Coroner's Office on this matter, and await the results of the formal identification."
The BBC understands that a note found in Dr Polge's car related mainly to personal issues, but included a passing reference to Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt.
It is understood Dr Polge had been an active campaigner against plans to change working hours and conditions for junior doctors, and in January posted a new Facebook profile picture, featuring the hashtag #NotFairNotSafe.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36015693
DanTex
(20,709 posts)because you can sort it correctly just by alphanumeric order.
I don't like m/d/y at all, on documents I always spell out the month or at least abbreviate it in order to avoid confusion.
Bad Dog
(2,025 posts)Where the Berlin wall fell on 9th November 1989, or 9/11.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)There are liberals in the conservative states and vice versa. I think more would be solved and many of the states on both sides would turn purple if more people would vote and participate.
I think if we could get an informed electorate voting around a rate of 85% (why not wish for a unicorn that shoots rainbows outta it's ass) we'd find that most people reside in the middle.
Too many people live under the will of a very loud minority. Gerrymandering has made so many people not even want to try anymore. Liberal Georgians resign themselves to the fact that they live in a Bubba Red State.
So, all I need is an informed electorate and an end to gerrymandering... The unicorn is more likely to happen at this point.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)And I wholeheartedly agree about the goal of increasing voter participation. Unfortunately, I also agree with your assessment of its chances of happening.
angrychair
(8,702 posts)You stated:
"we'd find that most people reside in the middle."
Sorry to say that what even constitutes "middle" is debatable.
"Centrist" Democrats of today would have been moderate Republicans or just "Republicans" 25 or so years ago. A "moderate centrist" is just a Republican so ashamed of their own Party they've gone to stealth mode.
On the Republican side there is no such thing as a moderate anything and they are all wingnuts.
All that being said, a "moderate centrist" Republic sounds like a hellscape of compromising, half-ass measures that that do little to fix actual problems but they will still feel good about themselves and have low taxes and for-profit elementary schools and toll roads but at least your taxes are low.
EL34x4
(2,003 posts)We're a red rural / blue urban country.
Kinda hard to split that up.
Angel Martin
(942 posts)annabanana
(52,791 posts)packman
(16,296 posts)Note the birds on lower right/left and their fate
logosoco
(3,208 posts)and with housing prices I can afford! So I don't want to give up any of that. On the record, our county goes about 50/50. In the years that i have lived on my street (that has 12 houses), I have befriended people who are not just like me. After much talking, I finally convinced one woman that not all black people and not all Muslims and not all gay people are the same. Another one, who had a Confederate flag hanging for a while, was given a history lesson that he may have not been paying attention to at school (that basically boiled down to the fact that most of the people who died in the Civil War were fighting for a "cause" that didn't even include or benefit them).
So, instead of drawing lines and illuminating the factions, how about if we make sure everyone is educated. Seems like it should be easier now with everyone walking around with the Internet in their pockets.
It may take a little time and effort, but I would rather try to find common things between people than separate them because of differences.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)It's kind of getting to the point where that the two parties simply see the world in vastly different ways, and want a very different kind of nation to live in. And as a result we just get gridlock and nothing much gets accomplished unless one party has big majorities and the presidency, like the first 2 years of Obama.
And also, most states are so reliably either Red or Blue that presidential elections come down to maybe 10 swing states. My vote never made any difference, when I used to live in Texas, or now living in NY.
At some point, I think it makes sense to just say, look, you do it your way, we do it ours. Blue and Red America would still be close allies, and you'd be able to travel freely from one to the other and all that.
Nay
(12,051 posts)Off Without 'Em: A Northern Manifesto For Southern Secession"
Thompson's book is a light-hearted and funny look at the idea of secession, but he's totally serious, too. I liked this book so much that I bought a hardcover. I read it the first time, and then immediately started over and read it again. If you haven't read this book, you must. For me, it was the best and most complete listing of the reasons for secession.