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ericson00

(2,707 posts)
Mon May 2, 2016, 08:23 PM May 2016

British Labour Party's Anti-Semitism Turmoil: Epitome of Why I Oppose Syrian non-Yazidi Refugees

I'm sure people have heard about the British Labor Party's scandal of anti-Semitism,

see: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/18/labour-antisemitism-jews-jeremy-corbyn
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/02/labour-has-secretly-suspended-50-members-for-anti-semitic-and-ra/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/27/jeremy-corbyn-at-odds-live-on-bbc-with-his-shadow-cabinet-minist/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/uk-labour-party-suspends-councilor-over-anti-israel-postings/2016/05/02/27be59fa-1050-11e6-a9b5-bf703a5a7191_story.html

Mainstream political parties are being filled with anti-Semites, which used to be mainly confined to the far-right. Not anymore, tho not for a while.

This isn't unique to England; its happening all over Europe:

In Gemany: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-jews-no-longer-safe-due-to-anti-semitism-and-deteriorating-security-a6823216.html
In France: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/25/world/europe/french-jews-fear-a-new-strain-of-isis-inspired-anti-semitism.html?_r=1

I don't think its a mystery why so many Dems joined the GOP last November to oppose the Syrian Refugees; given public opinion, and also, that many of those Dems came from districts with large Jewish populations. Jews don't need their physical safety as risk, as well as their body politic in one of the few Western and Northern Hemisphere countries that have lacked pogroms. As you can see, anti-Semitism in the Middle East is extremely high. I have no problem with admitting individual people; I do have a problem with admitting large amounts given such Jew hatred and Islamic extremism present in their original part of the world.

I do support allowing Yazidis to move here. Why? Because their home and foreign populations don't peddle anti-Semitism like the non-Yazidis and non-Kurds of Syria. The Jews are amongst the most patriotic citizens and achieving of this country as a whole. We don't need a situation where our political system gets infested with viotriolic anti-Semitism like the British Labour Party has done to the UK. Hence, why I oppose the Syrian Refugees (except Yazidis.)


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And no, don't ever compare it to the MS St. Louis (if you don't know what that name means, you've demonstrated the ignorance behind letting the Syrian (non-Yazidi) refugees in. Jews were turned away not because of actual threats of terrorist violence and hatred, but because of conspiratorial anti-Semitism peddled by Protocols of Elders of Zion, etc.

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British Labour Party's Anti-Semitism Turmoil: Epitome of Why I Oppose Syrian non-Yazidi Refugees (Original Post) ericson00 May 2016 OP
As a British, left-wing ethnic Jew: There has ALWAYS been antisemitism in all parties LeftishBrit May 2016 #1
"what about the right?" ericson00 May 2016 #4
Poorly veiled Islamophobia. marmar May 2016 #2
Not everyone is self-aware. cpwm17 May 2016 #9
I strongly disagree with you on this part leftynyc May 2016 #3
the MS. St. Louis was denied because Jews were thought to have a secret cabal, do behind the scenes ericson00 May 2016 #5
But we don't accept the numbers leftynyc May 2016 #8
if this is about numbers, its a slipper slope; ericson00 May 2016 #10
What about Syrian Christians? CJCRANE May 2016 #6
if I said that, then even more cries ericson00 May 2016 #7

LeftishBrit

(41,208 posts)
1. As a British, left-wing ethnic Jew: There has ALWAYS been antisemitism in all parties
Tue May 3, 2016, 10:05 AM
May 2016

The main offender in the current Labour Party episode is Ken Livingstone, who is NOT a refugee, a foreigner, a Muslim, or anything other than of white British descent for generations.

I think that there has been some increase in anti-Semitism on the left, largely as a spin-off of the Iraq war. Opposition to the war (which I have opposed since day one) has occasionally involved strange bedfellows, whereby non-left groups opposed to the war, which are sometimes highly CT-ish including anti-Semitism, have joined forces with the left. Sometimes lying down with dogs has led to getting up with fleas!

But there has always been some anti-Semitism on the left: in and before the 80s, it was often linked to influences stemming ultimately from the Soviet Union (and anti-Semitism has always been a big problem in Russian politics, whether on Right, Left or neither).

But what about all the anti-Semitism on the Right? What about the Tories choosing to belong to the group in the EU Parliament that is shared with right-wing (and often very anti-Semitic) Poles, rather than the mainstream Euro-Conservative group? I don't think that they've chosen this through anti-Semitism, but it certainly implies some tolerance of anti-Semitism. What about all the xenophobic dog-whistles against ethnically Jewish Ed Miliband, his family and how he looked when eating a bacon sandwich? If the right-wing media hadn't indulged in all these smears, we would probably now have an ethnically-Jewish Labour Prime Minister!!!! - remember that when you imply that anti-Semitism is a left-wing phenomenon. What about former Tory MP Aidan Burley, who got into trouble in France over a Nazi-themed stag party? Or the students in the Oxford University Conservative Association, who got drunk at one of their meetings and sang a vile parody of 'Jingle Bells', all about dashing through the Reich killing lots of K-words? Future Cabinet members, if the past is anything to go by!

And that's just the Tories. UKIP are far, far worse.

The strongest campaigner at the moment for admitting Syrian refugee children is Jewish Labour peer Alf Dubs - and one of his motivations is due to his having been a child refugee at age 6, rescued from the Nazis by the Kindertransport.

Like almost all ethnic Jews in Europe, I have refugees among my ancestors and relatives; and the thought of using anti-Semitism among NON-refugees as an excuse for sending refugees back to their deaths revolts me!!! You are spitting on my ancestors' graves as far as I'm concerned.

All countries have inevitable limits on how many refugees/migrants they can accept. All countries must have checks on the genuineness of asylum-seekers. But please do not use the Jews as an excuse for having racist policies on who can be accepted!!!



 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
3. I strongly disagree with you on this part
Tue May 3, 2016, 10:24 AM
May 2016

Yes, by all means, there must be a strong vetting process but families and especially children must be admitted. And it's BECAUSE of our shared history that I feel this way. Unless you have prove ALL the Syrian refugees are terrorists, then it most certainly is comparable to the St. Louis - you want to deny people based only on their religion - that should be unacceptable to all Jews.

As far as the anti-semitism on the left is concerned, I agree it has become a much bigger problem on the left than I ever thought possible. What's happening on college campuses should chill everyone. I can post article after article on this - I have a friend with a son at Oberlin that is strongly considering pulling him from school because of crap like this:

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/03/oberlin_college_professors_ant_1.html

When I see people using the first amendment argument - I want to scream. The first ONLY protects you from the government. Nobody is OWED a job and to find out there are consequences when you openly post on social media shouldn't be a shock to anyone. I have no problem likening this to a professor showing support for the fucking klan. Unacceptable and worthy of firing. PERIOD.

What happened to this student:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/03/19/berkeley-s-swastika-problem-are-america-s-liberal-colleges-breeding-anti-semitism.html

Simply unacceptable. Because she was a supporter of Israel, Berkeley thought it was fitting to keep her from student government. Not acceptable.

Unless the left takes a long hard look at all of this, they're going to continue to lose Jewish voices and Jewish votes. Ignoring the rampant anti semitism in Europe and right here in the US is a recipe for a dying party. I wont let that happen without a fight.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
5. the MS. St. Louis was denied because Jews were thought to have a secret cabal, do behind the scenes
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:21 PM
May 2016

things, and corrupt societies, stuff that was just CT.

A large portion of the Muslim world indeed DOES, not in CT, but in actuality, hold objectionable views that endanger our society and peoples already here. It's not in question. Views that can be found here, here, and here.

Therefore, its not comparable. This isn't about whether something should be based on religion or not. Its about people's safety. Boatloads of Syrian Muslim refugees coming from a part of the world where anti-Semitic, anti-America, Islamist ideas are common, is a danger. Its the ideas that large amounts of the group hold. It endangers our society.

The thought that Jews ever endangered anything was bullshit.

I got no problem with individual Muslims coming. Muslims in the US today are fine because they're forced to interact with different people. Once you start putting massive amounts in, they'll form enclaves, becoming insular like in the UK and Europe, and they'll form a voting bloc politicians will pander to. The anti-Semitism they'll hold will be coopted by Mondoweiss crowd, etc.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
8. But we don't accept the numbers
Tue May 3, 2016, 04:14 PM
May 2016

that Europe does - and never will. I know what our vetting process is all about and I think it's fine. Single men aren't even eligible and it takes up to 2 years to be admitted. What's the difference between imbeciles thinking that Jews had secret cabals and people thinking all Muslims are terrorists? Both are being tagged because of their religion. I do agree that American Muslims have assimilated much better but that's because we give them the opportunity to - Europe does not.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
10. if this is about numbers, its a slipper slope;
Tue May 3, 2016, 06:23 PM
May 2016

accept a few, things might go fine, but then they start voting and campaigning to people who can vote (if the migrants don't have citizenship yet) and given the power of the far-left, there would undoubtedly be more. Couple that with the fact that the couples would have children, and so on.

Even if both are being looked at with religion as the first thing, fact is for me at least, this is about personal, physical, and democratic safety, not keeping some religious balance or demographic in this country.

Like I said, Muslims currently integrate here because they cannot be insular due to the much smaller Muslim population than in Europe; start making enclaves around the country, it could change. Its bad enough Dearborn has the azan ringing on loudspeakers in parts of it every morning. But at least they know they have to interact with non-Muslims outside of one city.

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
7. if I said that, then even more cries
Tue May 3, 2016, 01:30 PM
May 2016

of racism would be lobbed at me. But yea, they can come to, in my book.

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