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In praise of misfits
Why business needs people with Aspergers syndrome, attention-deficit disorder and dyslexia
Jun 2nd 2012 | from the print edition
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Wired magazine once called it the Geek Syndrome. Speaking of internet firms founded in the past decade, Peter Thiel, an early Facebook investor, told the New Yorker that: The people who run them are sort of autistic. Yishan Wong, an ex-Facebooker, wrote that Mark Zuckerberg, the founder, has a touch of Aspergers, in that he does not provide much active feedback or confirmation that he is listening to you. Craig Newmark, the founder of Craigslist, says he finds the symptoms of Aspergers uncomfortably familiar when he hears them listed.
Similar traits are common in the upper reaches of finance. The quants have taken over from the preppies. The hero of Michael Lewiss book The Big Short, Michael Burry, a hedge-fund manager, is a loner who wrote a stockmarket blog as a hobby while he was studying to be a doctor. He attracted so much attention from money managers that he quit medicine to start his own hedge fund, Scion Capital. After noticing that there was something awry with the mortgage market, he made a killing betting that it would crash. The one guy that I could trust in the middle of this crisis, Mr Lewis told National Public Radio, was this fellow with Aspergers and a glass eye.
Entrepreneurs also display a striking number of mental oddities. Julie Login of Cass Business School surveyed a group of entrepreneurs and found that 35% of them said that they suffered from dyslexia, compared with 10% of the population as a whole and 1% of professional managers. Prominent dyslexics include the founders of Ford, General Electric, IBM and IKEA, not to mention more recent successes such as Charles Schwab (the founder of a stockbroker), Richard Branson (the Virgin Group), John Chambers (Cisco) and Steve Jobs (Apple). There are many possible explanations for this. Dyslexics learn how to delegate tasks early (getting other people to do their homework, for example). They gravitate to activities that require few formal qualifications and demand little reading or writing.
Attention-deficit disorder (ADD) is another entrepreneur-friendly affliction: people who cannot focus on one thing for long can be disastrous employees but founts of new ideas. Some studies suggest that people with ADD are six times more likely than average to end up running their own businesses. David Neeleman, the founder of JetBlue, a budget airline, says: My ADD brain naturally searches for better ways of doing things. With the disorganisation, procrastination, inability to focus and all the other bad things that come with ADD, there also come creativity and the ability to take risks. Paul Orfalea, the founder of Kinkos and a hotch-potch of businesses since, has both ADD and dyslexia. I get bored easily; that is a great motivator, he once said. I think everybody should have dyslexia and ADD.
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MORE:
http://www.economist.com/node/21556230
liberal N proud
(60,335 posts)We struggled to get this brilliant mind through school with ADD. She has an extremely high IQ an very witty but struggled since the 5th grade when they started changing class rooms. Then we learned about ADD and how to manage it, but that did not stop the struggle of keeping her on track.
Finally last week, we completed High School, now for the higher education part, she still doesn't know what she wants to do and we are not pushing. Let her find something that works for her. She wants to go to school but just not sure what for yet.
LizW
(5,377 posts)From middle school on, my son was punished and humiliated every day for something he had no control over. We were badgered to put him on medication, and when we finally did, it helped some, but didn't solve anything. We asked the school to recognize his differences and make accommodations, but they wouldn't because his IQ was too high and he wasn't failing his classes.
We only kept him in traditional school because of music education. There he excels. Teachers are baffled by a kid who can memorize complicated music and play it while marching a drill that has 70+ "sets" (different movements from place to place) perfectly -- but can't always name the months of the year in order!
High interest is the key for ADD people. My son failed a photography project because he spent hours and hours composing original music to play behind the slide show and very little time actually taking the photos and editing them.
One more year of high school, and then the world opens up to him. He may go to college, or may not.
liberal N proud
(60,335 posts)because she didn't do it like the teacher wanted and each week the teacher wanted it a different way. Now she is terrible at math.
Sometimes schools ruin the brilliant kids.
Our daughter is really good at music as well and graphic arts is something she enjoys so she excels there.
She always tells me she isn't going to do anything that isn't fun.
LibertyLover
(4,788 posts)she loves music and can pick up and play things back after hearing them just a few times. But name the months or the days - sorry no can do. I keep wanting to have her evaluated but my husband, who takes care of her while I work, won't let me. I wonder if I should show him your posting and hope that he'll recognize her in it.
Butterbean
(1,014 posts)I read that Wired article (The Geek Sydrome one), and tend to agree with the premise. My husband (a hardware development electrical engineer) and all of his engineer buddies are very spectrum-y.
ManyShadesOf
(639 posts)Good one. Hadn't heard that b4
Demeter
(85,373 posts)nor are they any more suited for masterhood than any of the neurotypicals.
The amount of external structure needed to keep a spectrum person on track cannot be sustained by less-regimented societies and/or without extensive family support.
This doesn't mean we all cannot or do not contribute to society--it does mean "from each according to his gifts, to each, according to his needs" is the way to go for the health of all.
ManyShadesOf
(639 posts)might also benefit from better nutrition, less processed/toxic food/water/meds, since this spectrum really seems to have blossomed in recent decades
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)I am dx'd Asperger's and have incredible focus on things I am interested in but couldn't give the proverbial hoot in hell about anything else. I'm a lawyer and can draw together complex webs of connections amongst precedents others just don't see. I am also more or less asocial and have no ability to handle office politics or read people.
So almost 25 years out of Harvard Law I've never been able to get and hold on to any decent job and make about the same salary as the receptionist at the place I am now working.
It is a mixed bag in the real world.
cpamomfromtexas
(1,245 posts)Most of them are bankrupt and facing homelessness, meanwhile the traditional "doctors" are still rolling their eyes at the wild spectrum of complaints we all have caused from levaquin, cipro, avelox, and others in that family of drugs.
I'm two years out from tendon rupture, hamstring tear, but only recently "woke up" from the terrible brain fog and realized what happened, have spent months trying to figure out why I was so sick. Many of us fear we may never get well.
Meanwhile we can't sleep, have psychotic episodes, massive depression, have raging tendon issues, hormone problems, and many more.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)people frequently breeds unusual success. So often, all someone needs is a partner to take care of the things their condition(?) makes them unsuited for, like dealing with average people.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)since I left law school. I have exactly the same skill set that I had the day I graduated - I am really good at writing briefs and memos and that is all I know how to do. I've never taken a deposition, argued a motion or dealt with a client, much less had any actual responsibility for anything. I've clerked for judges, but that's a different kettle of fish entirely. I can only function in a highly structured environment where my responsibilities are absolutely clear to me and personal interactions are limited to a very small number of people. I also have the business sense/abilities of a potted plant.
I have long said that anyone who gave me any significant responsibility on a case would be committing malpractice and that I would be committing malpractice if I accepted such responsibility. And that's the truth.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)There's a disconnect here.
<generalization mode>; People with ASD don't intuitively understand or know others states of mind. In fact, they often functionally assume that everyone else has the same body of knowledge that they do, thus their own knowledge is not in any way unique.
Your own level of knowledge is unimpressive... to you... because you already know it and assume everyone else does too. </generalization mode>
I guarantee a client who would otherwise consider acting as their own attorney would benefit from consulting with you.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)he sounds a lot like your situation.
people assume that anyone with aspergers has incredible math skills, tech skills - and the inclination for the same - and this is entirely not true.
the reality is that people with aspergers, it seems, have some highly developed skills or interests (with one or two big obsessions) and those things are not always conducive to huge success in the American economic system.
He can also connect with people - he had a girlfriend and he connects with his family - but he also wants to have time alone and doesn't recognize some actions that are considered outside of the norm that make people sometimes go "huh?"
He's also one of the nicest persons I have ever known - he assumes people are good and that things will be okay - and, as his mom, that scares me when I think about him out in the world by himself.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)ADD isn't uncommon with geeks by any means, but it is one of the reasons we can work with a dozen or so computers at the same time (and still not get anything done at times). Other times we can perform what most people assume is magic. ADHD is very different but they're being lumped together now and that's dangerous. Adderall is great for ADHD but is being over-prescribed because of the confusion and it is NOT an appropriate drug for ADD.
And dyslexia and dysgraphia are also not uncommon. My middle daughter has a combination of both and in elementary school the letters b, p, q, and d were all the same to her. She also spelled words backwards. With extensive help from the district, she overcame this and became the only senior to receive a language award last year. Curiously, Latin was a major factor.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)You know, where you get there and have NO FUCKING CLUE why you are there? I found that the reason actually gets stuck in a space time vortex and if I just back up to the place I lost the thought it returns to my head. Then I walk back into the same room and it's gone again. It can take a few iterations to finally get convergence.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Frankly, I think my mom has it too......small world, huh?
shadegrown dulse
(9 posts)Oh where where we?
(LOL- sounds like me!)
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Everyone in my family has either ADD or ADHD and we all married people with the same. The children my sibs have all have forms of it also and some learning disabilities but they are all so intelligent and creative. We all ended up marrying people who had a grounding in areas where we were lacking which has really helped. I can say my husband has never bored me. LOL
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)The other only has mild near-sightedness even though my dad used to wear the "coke bottle" glasses. He uses contacts now (and I don't want to KNOW how big they are). Genetics is a weird and wonderful thing.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)This makes working from home challenging.
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)When I am confronted with people I don't know I reply with one word answers and otherwise sit there like a stuffed owl as I am constitutionally incapable of making small talk.
Only where I understand what is expected of me, or where I know the other person and I share a common interest do I talk. So I get along fine with other musicians and the folks I meet at trade shows because there's a topic that can be used as an icebreaker.
I am totally uncomfortable with people who sit in a position of judgment over me when I know the judgment will be based solely on subjective factors. I can't read them and really don't understand neurotypicals at all.
freeplessinseattle
(3,508 posts)how good I would (theoretically, but not realistically) look on paper.
Too bad more employers can't recognize the difference
(and if it wasn't for my work I'd be even more of a shy reclusive news junkie, lol)
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)for you, and working for someone with AS can be a nightmare. It is not surprising that they excel either by themselves or on top of a hierarchy. The guys that worked for me always greatly appreciated the quiet places I always create in an office so that when they start to rev up, they have a place to go away from any stimulation.
I think I might be slightly within that category myself.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)My first thought was ... There is hope for this dyslexic!
But then I read the last two sentences of this section and thought ... why didn't they tell me this before my hours of struggling through homework, and my law school and masters program?
ananda
(28,866 posts)The only real solution is a memic and societal adjustment to the fact
that there are different kinds of people, and everyone is valuable
just the way they are.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Being ADD, ADHD, or especially being on the autism spectrum is not a defect, it is a different way of being. My shorthand description of myself is that I am like Data on STNG and you should adjust your expectations of me accordingly for good and for different.
Mutiny In Heaven
(550 posts)As one who was diagnosed with ADHD in adulthood, medication is a great help. However, one must find the right balance...I could ostensibly be more rigidly productive on a very high dose, but I would lose a creative spark.
I am currently in the process of finding that sweet spot and think I'm more or less there - I'm able to live effectively without forgetting and perpetually being sidetracked without losing the stream of thought which was once overwhelming. He effect on my home & family life has also been massively positive.
ManyShadesOf
(639 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)My ex boss, an MIT PHD, had several peculiar traits. For one, he could type while conversing. If I engaged him while he was coding, his hands would often continue on their own while we spoke. Sometimes while we were chewing the fat he would go completely blank like someone threw his switch. This was most disconcerting when, in mid laugh, his face suddenly lost all expression save a kind of 1000 yard stare. A moment later he was back right where he left off. We attributed this to his over-queued processor interrupt handling / context switching. He retired filthy rich in his mid 30s.
ManyShadesOf
(639 posts)Have the traits of being non-emotive, socially awkward been considered more "normal" for males than social expectations of females?
Don't know much about it but have several candidates in my life, including the dudes in the computer lab studying computer gaming.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)ManyShadesOf
(639 posts)to the traits of being more non-emotive, socially awkward being considered more "normal" for males than social expectations of females?
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)by one of the leading researchers in the field. We AS people don't do empathy, defined as being able to put ourselves in another's mental state and respond with appropriate body language. We tend to just sit and take in the information and make rational responses. This does not mean that we don't have compassion, which is another thing entirely.
ManyShadesOf
(639 posts)for explaining that. Interesting.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)I always tell people that the best and closest example of an Asperger's person in the media is Data from Star Trek Next Gen. Like Data, we look human but some emotions are not easy to understand or identify with, and we tend to be relentlessly verbal and logical. But we don't bite.
ManyShadesOf
(639 posts)"not easy to understand or identify with" can go both ways too and may cause lots of confusion, eh? when those who have empathy try to comprehend not having it, or relate to it being ... just not there. It's not a matter of won't but can't?
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Asperger's people live entirely inside their own heads. The first therapist that diagnosed me picked up on it immediately when I said that's how I live. With me, and most other Aspies, we can comprehend pretty much everything neurotypicals do but it gets processed first and foremost through the logic circuits. Ergo, the Data analogy.
And yes, it does cause a lot of confusion and difficulties. I once worked with a singer who told me months after our first encounter that she'd mistakenly thought I was the most aloof and arrogant person she had ever met. It took her a long while to figure out that I was just "different." That was before I was Dx'd so I didn't have the terminology of Asperger's to explain why I was different although I have known for decades that I am.
and seem cold or uncaring when that may not be the case.
DCKit
(18,541 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Like cats, we tend to march to our individual drummers. Non-neurotypicals are hard to herd or break.
IDemo
(16,926 posts)Spent almost all my free time during my youth reading or drawing, excelled in math, taught myself how to instantly calculate the day of the week from any date.
Now employed as an electronics tech, and very withdrawn socially...
but here you are IDemo
and you are among friends,
peace, kpete
IDemo
(16,926 posts)OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)This article and comments in this discussion thread fit me perfectly. Having piqued my interest, I goggled "Asperger's test" and took one: http://www.piepalace.ca/blog/asperger-test-aq-test/ Sure, the results are not a definitive medical test... but I scored a 33 out of 50 (test positive). About the only comment I have is, "Well how about that." I don't think I should be concerned - should I? As long as I'm not going to dies a horrible early death... it doesn't really bother me.
A long time ago when I was young (8yrs old or so) my mother told me that she wanted to test me for autism, but since I got pretty much straight A's all the way through high school, my father never saw the need. She said I was extremely quiet for a kid and would blankly stare at people and guests indefinitely. I have a pretty high IQ (scoring well over 140 on multiple tests) and I'm an Engineer with a minor in Economics. I'm very compulsive about hobbies and interests and patterns. Do you know how annoying it is, while at a traffic light, to feel the need to count the number of times a typical crosswalk "don't walk" sign flashes before becoming solid? The answer is about 12, in my city. Or, do you ever notice how nearly every car's turn signals vary in dwell and frequency... even between similar make/models? I've only seen maybe less than a handful with frequencies that were indiscernible!
At some point in my life, all my close friends or roommates (including wife) have told me I lack empathy. I'm just pretty level headed whether I'm feeling happy or sad. To be totally honest, people exhibiting emotion around me makes me VERY anxious and uncomfortable. More or less, dealing with other peoples' (irrational?) emotional communication is so off putting to me, I keep mine to myself because I figure they probably wouldn't appreciate dealing with any of my emotional communication. One friend (even my wife) questioned me as a sociopath... but I assured them I do, in fact, have plenty of emotions. I just just generally keep them to myself in my head. I have to laugh or smile at my wife during a sad/emotional movie when she is crying to cut the tension and I can't stand funerals. I'm a grown adult and still cant figure out how react to someone being emotional at a funeral or toast something... what do they want/expect ME to do about the situation?!? I usually zone out and nod while numerically estimating the number of people there using different techniques (and then actually counting them to see which was right).
Take the quiz... what do all you get?
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)You definitely sound Asperger's to me. I was reading on my own when I was 3, preferred the company of adults and had a hard time making friends. I went through various obsessive interests - dinosaurs, memorizing car models and years, baseball statistics and was classified as "gifted" when I started school. Like you my tested IQ was well into the 140s.
I always had a very difficult time with social relationships other than with people I shared a strong common interest with and still do to this day. My almost unnatural ability to focus on things that I wished to pursue made it easy for me to breeze through college, which I started at 25 after dropping out of high school at 16. Made it all the way to an Ivy League law school, where I did quite well.
I do understand and respond to mediated emotions, in music, a book or a film - because I know why I am supposed to feel a certain way and have the backstory to "get it." But in dealing with people in the Real World I usually come across as a cold fish. Strong displays of emotion also make me very uncomfortable as I have no idea how to react except with my usual rationality. As for myself, I only get a real head of steam on about ideas or animals - I adore animals, especially cats, because they are always honest and have no hidden agenda (food is a pretty obvious agenda ). For me conversation is an exchange of information, sometimes opinionated but basically an exchange of information.
I realized early in my 20s that relationships held only the potential for disaster. Being utterly unable to read people and assuming that they will be as honest with me as I am with them led me to conclude that this was a dangerous area. I've had enough upheavals in my life and value stability above nearly everything. I've never had a date much less a relationship, and I am now old enough not to care much about it anymore. That I had very high standards for independence, intelligence and appearance took me pretty much out of the game to begin with and my Aspergerness pretty much sealed the deal.
I will probably wind up as a kooky old man listening to Beethoven with a couple of cats on my lap.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)We'll gladly take Newmark, though.
And more of us should be mega-rich like him.