If we nailed them for 30% we can close that 1.5 trillion dollar deficit with all that big money we'll get from them!

will fix the problem.

We need to raise the tax rate on all taxpayers making above $250k.

Using 6 families who pay no tax as some kind of example isn't productive and frankly, is just petty. Their taxes aren't going to solve our issues, and frankly neither is simply raising taxes alone.

If they are following the law (which I assume they are) then the problem is not that they make too much money or that they are somehow crooked, it's the law. Making them seem like evil fuckers for paying the bill they are asked to pay is ridiculous.

it is stupid but unfortunately necessary prong of a more complete strategy because much of the electorate only listens to stupid inflammatory bs.

Every time some idiot on Fox Noise talks about half the country not paying taxes, make sure they include these as part of that 50%. People need to understand that it's not just the poor that pay no income tax, it's the very rich as well. And, let's ask these idiots who they'd rather be. If my company wants to give me an income of $74 million/year and then the government wants to take half of it in income tax, that'll work.

And you are INSANELY naive if you think they're paying the bill they're asked to pay. They can afford to spend ridiculous sums of money to find the most scurrilous ways to pay nothing or next to nothing. It's collusion of the ultra wealthy and the government and it's an outrage. If you honestly think there's not tons of dishonesty and immorality in the fact that these people pay no taxes, you're not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Just because they can find a loophole and use it, makes it neither dishonest or immoral.

If you have the energy to be outraged about someone else's income, you've got more energy than I.

Set the laws. Make sure people pay what they owe. Adjust from there.

Finding every single loophole available to them by paying high priced accountants is nothing approaching "being paid what they're asked to pay". And what's extra dumb about your comments is that you're suggesting that we shouldn't be outraged that such loopholes exist. What articles like this are supposed to do (and what you seem utterly oblivious to) is make people ANGRY that the wealthy are able to exploit such loopholes to the point where the the middle class pay more taxes both in number and in terms of a percentage than the ultra-wealthy. That's not democracy, that's not America at all.

who set the laws to ensure they pay even less in taxes, as well was enable them to steal more resources from the overall system.

It's a catch-22.

The 6 people who don't pay any taxes on incomes of $200M are not petty, any more than the 6 blasts you find on a hemotology slide with thousands of mixed normal and abnormal cells are petty.

They are a significant symptom of a serious disease, usually some cancer or other that is scarfing up all your body's resources, starving your healthy cells and will ultimately kill you if you don't root it out at the source.

They are a huge red alert.

They got it through the politicians they bought.

They made millions from the Bush tax cuts, and for some reason, they also made millions in donations to put Bush in office and to keep him there.

Governor Brownback just signed a law giving an average of $10,000 tax breaks to members of the top 1%. Doubtless they will be happy to donate $3,000 or $4,000 to make sure that law stays in effect.

And sure I will give my last full measure of devotion to reverse it, but here I am standing on a soapbox with a squirt gun and there they are on TV with a multi-phasic laser cannon. Who do you think is gonna win that fight?

The problem IS the law, and the fact that the richest Americans pay a lower tax rate than people who earn a lot less than they do is a very good illustration of the problem.

If I'm reading you correctly, that snark is rather stupid. No one is suggesting that taxing these people more will eliminate the deficit. It will make for a better and more equitable society. Tax these fuckers, 30% is letting them off incredibly easy, but at least it's something. Honestly, you support bullshit like this?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/123

I don't disagree with one point, to quote myself

"The cummulative loss (from tax cuts to the richest 400) since 1995, including 4% interest, totalled $88.7 billion in 2007. Again, a mere drop in the deficit bucket,..."


BUT

"the fab 400 are also just the tip of the wealthy iceberg."

and

"The difference in revenue between 2005 and 2000 is $150 billion (that is, if 2005 incomes were paying the same rates that they did in 2000) and the difference between 2005 and 1996 was $212.9 billion. The deficit was $318 billion in 2005, so the tax cuts for the top 10% caused about 60% of it. The revenue lost in 2005 from people making over $2,000,000 was over $60 billion. $60,000,000,000 that went to the wealthiest 120,000 families in America in 2005 alone. This compared to $31 billion for Veteran's benefits, 20.9 billion for TANF or 53.8 billion for food stamps."

****

The recent deficits are outliers, caused by an unprecedented economic collapse, combined with continuation of the Bush tax cuts. Your point that even substantial tax increases will not close it, is kinda hollow because Republican austerity measures will not close it either, and as Krugman is perhaps tired of pointing out, austerity is not good for the long term economic health of our nation. Or let me quote Dean Baker from March 14, 2009

"The most obvious effect of reducing the budget deficit right now would be to
raise the unemployment rate, slow economic growth, and lower investment,
thereby leaving a less productive economy for our children and grandchildren.
While some deficit reduction cults may view this as a positive economic path,
there are not many economists who would agree with this position."


But Republicans continue to promote austerity AND permanent tax cuts for the rich AND even more and larger tax cuts for the rich.

They feel that the government needs to live within their means just like the average American household does. Never mind that the average American household probably has a mortgage, a car loan, some student loan debt and is buying a couch with no interest and no payments for two whole years!! No, in their world an average household solves a budget problem by first, quitting their jobs, and second by giving their life savings to their rich uncle and then watches their two year old die of starvation because "we're broke and we cannot afford food".

Excellent post. Read the original post that you linked to- also excellent. Pity this kind of discussion doesn't receive more attention.

It never ceases to amaze me that so few are aware of either the swelling fortunes of the ultra-rich or the connection between deficits and the increased incomes and reduced tax rates of the very wealthy...

but I see it was largely ignored. I did better with this post http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/126

54 votes might be a personal best for me, but clearly my attempt to christen the richest 400 taxpayers in America as the Fab 400 has not at all caught on, not even making page 2 of a google search.

The harm from the Bush tax cuts tend to be a topic that major media stays away from, probably because the media is owned by the very wealthy and also that the talking heads on the TV are pulling down some major paychecks and benefit very much from things like the Bush tax cuts, as well as the payroll tax cuts.

Anyway, thanks for a positive comment.

I thought that was suppposed to make sure that everyone paid something.

That is, a person can have income, say, from tax free government bonds, that is Income but is not part of their Adjusted Gross Income.

Probably we should do away with tax free bonds. In some ways, they save local taxpayers millions of dollars in interest (because if the bonds were not tax free, they would have to pay a higher interest rate to get investors) but the larger result is that they create huge amounts of tax free income. If the federal and state governments taxed that interest income, they could return some of that extra tax money to the local governments to offset the higher interest charges. And it's quite absurd that $50,000 worth of wages will be taxed with both payroll and income taxes and yet $500,000 worth of tax free interest income (or more) will not be taxed.

I'm sure that wouldn't be appropriate, but the thought did cross my mind. I'm sure most of us could come up with a few likely suspects.

working person who maybe just retired?

While they send them off on another war to protect their corporate interests and investments worldwide.