I doubt you'll get a reasonable reply.

You'd think if the fix was in it'd happen quick with the rushpublicans taking control everywhere. Obama would have never stood a chance and it wouldn't be close. Stealing elections like the right wing's scream of election fraud usually provides lots of smoke and little fire. Suspicious activities that are just enough to fit whatever tin foil story one wants to make up as to why their candidate lost.

Can elections be more transparent? Of course. This is why you have trained poll judges at every step of the counting process and, even better, ensure that Democrats are elected as Secretary of State or to whatever office oversees elections. Bottom line is no matter what system is used someone is going to find fault...and it makes a convenient excuse for a lousy candidate or campaign.

Exit polls showed that Obama would have won by an even bigger margin had there not been tampering with the machines and voter purging. Electronic voting machines are not verifiable - even when using paper ballots for opti-scan- without a check to confirm that the votes entered matched the votes recorded. And with Opti-scan these checks are never done without a court order for a recount and only done when an election is very close. Poll judges, poll watchers, poll monitors are great to have around to control the lines and protect voters on site with some issues - but unless there is a manual check of a cross section of paper ballots or of the source codes of the machines- there is no such thing as a verifiable or transparent election. FACT.
The voting machines are manufactured by corporations with a political agenda- FACT (DS&S, Sequoia, Diebld- all GOP companies- Diebold promised to bring in Ohio for Bush- and they did)
1-3 points for Dems are systematically skimmed off the top of many districts- blue and red- FACT.

Thousands of eligible voters (seniors, minorities, lower income, students, etc) are illegally removed from the voting rosters each election and have to fight their way to get back on the list (some never do in time)- FACT.

Forcing voters to buy a photo ID (=poll tax= against the constitution) is going on right now in many GOP states to further reduce the number of probable Democrats voting- FACT.

I watched my vote change in front of me the first time we got electronic machines in Florida. Three times till it accepted my choice for governor. THREE TIMES before it appeared to register my choice of candidate. The fix was in- the source codes were altered and the default was to the GOP governor (Jeb). Had I not gone back three times and simply hit the red button without noticing what was registering- my vote would have gone to Jeb. Did it do that even after it appeared to register for my candidate? I have no idea. But once that happens, you never forget.

Watch Brad's most recent interview regarding what happened in WI and what happens with EVERY VOTE on an electronic voting machine. http://bradblog.com/

Exit polls...are what they are...a sampling of some people who have just voted. There's no requirement that they be accurate in saying who they voted for and there's no uniformity on how these polls are conducted. They were and still remain a reference, not a stone cold indicator of how a vote will go.

Voter Caging...and profiling...Yes, very big problems but those are before the vote, they have no direct effect on a final count. Yes, rushpublicans are conducting a systemic campaign to disenfranchise as many Democratic voters as they can and that's a battle that needs to be fought in the courts as well as finding ways around those laws to better organize and register voters. This year I've seen a big drop off on efforts by Democrats to register new voters.

I spent years as a poll watcher and also covering elections as a member of the "media" (yuk...slimy) at various board of elections. There's plenty of games that are played and ways for someone's whose determined to job the system. It was no different with electronic voting as it was with old-fashioned punch cards or push-lever machines...it was and still is up to the poll judges to oversee the entire system and if there are glitches (like what you say you saw) a judge better be there to spot it. If they're not shame on the party and/or candidate. Beyond that it goes to whose counting the vote and, again, working to elect Democrats to count those votes goes a long way in easing the "faud" claims...at least on this side of the fence. Amazing how few people who yelled fraud in Ohio in '04 said it may have happened in Obama's favor in '08. Again...voting has and will always be an inexact science...especially as we have so many different rules that govern how voting is done...but using machines as an excuse for a poor campaign is not going to change a thing...electing people you trust to election boards will.

or just get a clue.
Lol of course elections aren't stolen

Bullshit,massive turnout,polls breaking for the challenger it just doesnt add up.

I'm with you.

If you have proof of election fraud, then by all means post it. Just because it happened before doesn't mean it happened here. I can't prove it didn't happen and you can't prove it did.

So far NO ONE in the know in WI has claimed fraud, no one!!!!!!!

Were there dirty tricks played? Yes and those should be investigated by the proper authorities and if found true the perps should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, but election fraud? Until I see proof, I'm not going to throw around wild accusations.

...

Because nobody to date has demonstrated massive fraud in "stolen" elections?

Because when anybody is convicted of fraud in an election, the fraud generally had little to no effect on the outcome on the actual election (i.e. ineligible voters in very small numbers, the push pollers in New Hampshire a few years back, stuff like that)?

Get back to me when you can show somebody hacked the vote, though. I'm really eager to see any evidence of that actually happening. Sorta like I'd like to see just one example of dead voters or undocumented aliens voting in elections and actually, you know, affecting the outcome.

Sadly, though I doubt Kathy Nickolaus was on the up and up in Wisconsin for the Supreme Court election, the courts disagree with me. That may be an example of fraud affecting the outcome of a very close election, but since the courts claimed it was legitimate we can't really claim that one either.

to give u the proof YOU request and u very well know that. It has been proven time and again that the machines are easily hackable. Do you really think that in a country such as the USA that those machines would be left hackable if they did not want them to be?

it's really not much more than a calculator yet these are the most secure machines they can build?

really?

understand it." -Upton Sinclair

Willful ignorance. Detractors are definitely trying to mollify Americans. Makes you wonder why, doesn't it?

thanks

How can the Democratic party claim to be the party of science, when people promote conspiracy theory pseudo-science out of emotion, like that represented by this thread?

Really, X happened before, therefore X happened now? That's the link?

I "was told" it happened, that's the proof?

"Voluntary-selection polls are more accurate than an actual election" is what passes for diligent scientific thought these days?

How embarrassing.

when people claiming to be progressive and informed bury there heads in the sand.

I pursonally am not making any claims about wisconsins election in particular. I think with machines this hackable all of our elections are not only in doubt but are a joke.

And a not fucking funny one at that.

Therefore it's reasonable to believe that X could be happening again. Kind of like the FBI's history of fucking with anti-capitalist groups. When the history is there, I'm more suspicious than if the history is NOT there.

And at some point it becomes, prove to me that you're NOT doing it. Because I don't believe you anymore.

But maybe they restrained themselves, out of respect for democracy.

All this reminds me of the scene in the Simpsons movie where the cops see the mobsters dragging a blanket-wrapped body towards the lake, and their leader remarks out loud that he is merely disposing of yard-trimmings. The cops say, hey Chief, shouldn't we investigate? That looks like a dead body.

The chief says, that's what I thought too at first, but then I heard him say "yard-trimmings". Gotta learn to listen, boys.

to real life and truth than our media?

They only have to steal one or two. And it might be somewhere you would never suspect? It might not be Florida or Ohio the next time?