Now I'm a full-on lefty, commie, pinko, socialist, tree-hugging hippie.

No, my politics have not changed. Why do you ask?

"not as bad".

Which may be, sometimes, true. In the same way that Whooping Cough may be "not as bad" as pneumonia or strychnine "not as bad" as arsenic.

nt

generally moderate on select social issues (ie not bigots).

It is an ideology, it is not the same as being a moderate but the word is used to give that impression they are moderates even though they had the option to be just that.
Ever notice that that an economic moderate to liberal that is more conservative on social issues is never called centrist?

Also, you may notice that "centrists" aren't much on fixed positions (other than ALWAYS corporate friendly), no matter what the "extremes" do they are somehow supposedly in the "middle" so no matter how far off the rails the TeaPubliKlans go, they remain "centrist" which makes zero sense.

"Centrist" is a sales label to convince moderates to be corporate hacks.

"I will not sign a Health Care bill that does not contain a public option."
"MJ is up to the states."
"It is time for change in DC".

You are also essentially saying that 'both sides do it,' but in your case, both sides are the right and the center and not the left and the right.

All of this operates under the assumption that there are three sides and not two. You're right that centrists saying 'both sides' is a way for them to criticize their opponents while portraying themselves as paragons of reason.

But aren't you doing the same thing? You're operating under the assumption that your side is fundamentally different and that the other two are the problem. That's exactly what you're accusing them of.

side is right, which is the 'left' I assume.

Centrists do what they do because they want to appease the bullies, suck up to them, not look like the people the bullies demonize. But it doesn't work, to be accepted by the Right you have to never even try to see any other side than theirs so the Right ends up despising the Centrists even more than the Left, because they are weak and show their weakness. At least they often respect the Left the way you can respect an opponent who is good at what they do even if you want to defeat them.

Centrists worry, like abused spouses, about what the Right will think of them more than anything else. NO ONE should worry what the Right 'thinks'. The Right doesn't think. We should do what is right and roll right over them. Enough appeasement, you can't appease moronic bullies.

I'm arguing that our side is correct more often on the issues when the facts aren't colored by purely absurd talking points or argued as a Mobius Strip of logical fallacy, often the case when they come from the hard right. That also applies when an argument is made simply from ignorance or denial (the Sensibles).

Yes, reality has a liberal bias.

I wasn't really commenting on who is right or wrong, more that all three sides have similar perspectives on the other two.

The left believes the right is awful and that centrists is weak-willed wannabes. The right believes the left is awful and that the center is weak-willed wannabes. The center believes that the right and the left are somewhat awful.

'Both sides do it,' is another way of saying 'they are both wrong.' And that's what the right and left both say about the other two groups. That was my point.

Centrists are acquiescing to greedy abusers. I came of political age in the late 50s and 60s. If the centrists had enjoyed the power and support then that they enjoy now, we would still have segregated schools, no workplace rights for women, no Medicare. Nothing.

The civil rights and social progress we made during the 30s through the 60s was hard-fought by people with conviction who were willing to differentiate themselves and their compassionate beliefs from conservatives who wanted to continue the status quo and with those who were "centrists," who cared not at all about the rights of the poor, minorities or women but rather about being pleasing.

If you think that the views of centrists who equivocate on every issue and just want us all to get along deserve as much respect as those of people who support the rights of the dispossessed, I suggest you explain your view to the people who have lost their jobs, been foreclosed and are virtually out on the streets or living in cramped quarters with family members.

The bankers cheated. They lied and cheated. That they had fixed the laws so that they could lie and cheat legally is irrelevant. Remember, segregation was the law in states like Alabama and Mississippi until "leftist agitators" got the law changed.

Excited discussion about the issues, especially economic injustice, debt servitude for example, is what we need. If people think that "leftists" are wrong, they should say so and present cogent reasons for their own points of view. But ultimately, society suffers when we just toe a polite, centrist line and never look at injustice. Treating the ideas that further justice the same as those that deny it is a fool's paradise.

"We have to work with the republicans" No, we don't.

It would be like compromising or working with a serial killer, "Ok, if you only kill a person every ten days, that would work, just as long as it isn't every day" Why would you compromise or work with insanity and a political party that has destruction of the nation as a priority, because that is what the republican party of today represents.

Out of ignorance, they think that differences about policy don't really matter, that those who object to injustice, cheating and "nice" but incompetent leadership are just troublemakers. What matters to them is just that everyone "get along."

Problem is that their view permits the wealthy and powerful to abuse, disenfranchise, misinform and silence those whom the "leaders" perceive as being weaker and less capable.

Whether intentional or not, the attitudes of the centrists result in increasing injustice and class divisions. Ultimately their middle-of-the-road-offend-no-one philosophy will result in repression of the many by the powerful few. They acquiesce to the overbearing at a time when we need compassion for the weak.

I remember a time when unions were strong, the civil rights movement was active, and we were making progress toward a more just society.

Thanks to the centrists, progress is no longer the priority. "Getting along" and pretending that we have arrived, that everyone is already equal and there is no reason to disagree is now the first concern.

It is a big, big mistake.

Last edited Fri Jun 8, 2012, 12:03 AM - Edit history (1)

They want to use false equivalencies as if both political ideologies are equally extreme and incorrect. But last time I checked, liberals are the ones who got women and Blacks the right to vote, created social security and Medicare, ended segregation, fought for gay rights, we want marijuana legalized, we want single-payer health care, liberals want to get money out of politics, and liberals passed the clean air act and clean water act. Meanwhile, conservatives have opposed our side on every single one of those things. Liberals clearly have the interests in mind of the disadvantaged, while conservatives...not so much. Can someone tell me what is so extreme about liberal policies?
This is just my opinion, but all conservatism is is fascism, while centrism is fascism jr.

-Jamaal

more I learned, the more liberal I have become. I don't buy the BS from centrists, and I don't think they do either.

sayeth the great Jim Hightower