General Discussion

cali

(114,904 posts) Sat May 14, 2016, 05:41 AM May 2016

Murder rates have risen. Our FBI Dir. thinks it's 'cuz of viral videos. Grrr.

He has no evidence to support that theory. Sloppy (or worse) thinking. Irresponsible as Hell to voice it. Morons or protofascist assholes.

Experts cannot agree on what to call a recent rise in homicides, much less its cause, but new data on Friday that showed a sharp spike in homicide rates in more than 20 cities rekindled debate over whether it was time for alarm.

The data showed particularly significant increases in homicides in six cities in the first three months of the year compared with the same period last year — Chicago, Dallas, Jacksonville, Fla., Las Vegas, Los Angeles and Memphis. But almost as many cities reported a notable decline in recent months.

New York saw a 25 percent drop, while Las Vegas’s homicide total nearly doubled.

<snip>

The agency’s director, James Comey, has linked rising crime to less aggressive policing — the “viral video effect,” he called it this week, rejecting the more racially charged “Ferguson effect.” His theory, however, found little support from the White House, law enforcement groups, criminologists or even the group that gave him the new data on Friday.

<snip>
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/14/us/murder-rates-cities-fbi.html?_r=0

29 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Murder rates have risen. Our FBI Dir. thinks it's 'cuz of viral videos. Grrr. (Original Post) cali May 2016 OP

Yes, cops can't do their jobs if they're actually, you know, held accountable for what they do. Warren DeMontague May 2016 #1

"Real heroes die serving the law, not resisting it." Hortensis May 2016 #5

It's true, by pretty much every large scale measure, violent crime is down Warren DeMontague May 2016 #6

It's always something else. Bad Dog May 2016 #2

Great post. Astute observation. cali May 2016 #3

Thank you. Bad Dog May 2016 #8

The romantic myth of the West was, I think, fundamental cali May 2016 #14

Our myths are different. Bad Dog May 2016 #23

Yes. I think we've hit upon something cali May 2016 #25

Myths are some of the hardest things to let go of. Bad Dog May 2016 #28

Was it the guns when murder rates steadily fell for 20 years? hack89 May 2016 #18

You have guns and a high murder rate. Bad Dog May 2016 #24

But if the murder rate is cut in half while gun ownership goes up hack89 May 2016 #27

Nothing. Bad Dog May 2016 #29

IOW, he's saying police are worthless unless they are Ilsa May 2016 #4

And this is the same guy who REALLY wants to be able to hack into your phone without permission Warren DeMontague May 2016 #7

The FBI is helpless against viral videos, it's a global threat. bemildred May 2016 #9

It is like the assholes who correlate the Civil Rights Era with a spike in crime. AngryAmish May 2016 #10

Yeah well the FBI director is a dickbag who doesn't give a fuck Guy Whitey Corngood May 2016 #11

I thought Benghazi proved this couldn't happen... Wounded Bear May 2016 #12

Isn't it at least possible that he has hit upon an uncomfortable truth here? Nye Bevan May 2016 #13

He has no evidence. It's irresponsible. cali May 2016 #15

What harm could result from him sharing this theory? (nt) Nye Bevan May 2016 #17

You aren't that naive. It fuels the push to make filming cops illegal cali May 2016 #19

Criminals don't "take advantage" like that Nevernose May 2016 #20

James Comey was appointed FBI Director in May, 2013. former9thward May 2016 #22

Cops ate still living in the dark ages, FBI too. (nt) apnu May 2016 #16

This message was self-deleted by its author Odin2005 May 2016 #21

There sure have been a lot of shitty appointments in this administration. villager May 2016 #26

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)

1. Yes, cops can't do their jobs if they're actually, you know, held accountable for what they do.

Reply to cali (Original post)

Sat May 14, 2016, 05:46 AM

May 2016

Or something.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)

5. "Real heroes die serving the law, not resisting it."

Reply to Warren DeMontague (Reply #1)

Sat May 14, 2016, 07:04 AM

May 2016

This is on a neighbor's T-shirt. Another's about how his home is protected by Smith and Wesson. We don't talk social issues.

This seems on point.

James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University, said the uptick represented essentially a blip in so short a time, and he said it was a reflection of how low the crime rates had dropped.

“What’s basically happening is these cities are becoming victims of their own success,” said Professor Fox. "The crime rate “can’t go to zero, and when you hit really low numbers, it can only go up.”

Mr. Fox said Mr. Comey’s idea of a “viral video effect” was contradicted by the many cities that had decreases in homicides, even as police videos continued to emerge.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)

6. It's true, by pretty much every large scale measure, violent crime is down

Reply to Hortensis (Reply #5)

Sat May 14, 2016, 07:13 AM

May 2016

Which kind of puts some of the "culture in crisis" hyperbole we hear from some corners, in perspective.

Bad Dog

(2,025 posts)

2. It's always something else.

Reply to cali (Original post)

Sat May 14, 2016, 05:49 AM

May 2016

In the 1950s it was horror comics. In the 1980s video nasties and then it was video games.

And now it's viral videos, because it couldn't possibly be guns now.

cali

(114,904 posts)

3. Great post. Astute observation.

Reply to Bad Dog (Reply #2)

Sat May 14, 2016, 05:54 AM

May 2016

Bad Dog

(2,025 posts)

8. Thank you.

Reply to cali (Reply #3)

Sat May 14, 2016, 07:25 AM

May 2016

As someone from the UK I can never understand America's love affair with guns, or the Gun Lobby's need to look everywhere else for solutions rather than what's right under their noses.

cali

(114,904 posts)

14. The romantic myth of the West was, I think, fundamental

Reply to Bad Dog (Reply #8)

Sat May 14, 2016, 10:38 AM

May 2016

to America's gun madness. And that myth accrued other images and mythlets over the years

Bad Dog

(2,025 posts)

23. Our myths are different.

Reply to cali (Reply #14)

Mon May 16, 2016, 10:32 AM

May 2016

Like King Arthur being buried in Glastonbury, along with the Holy Grail. And London being established by Brutus fleeing the Trojan War. Not a lot of room for guns there.

cali

(114,904 posts)

25. Yes. I think we've hit upon something

Reply to Bad Dog (Reply #23)

Mon May 16, 2016, 10:39 AM

May 2016

Bad Dog

(2,025 posts)

28. Myths are some of the hardest things to let go of.

Reply to cali (Reply #25)

Mon May 16, 2016, 12:14 PM

May 2016

hack89

(39,171 posts)

18. Was it the guns when murder rates steadily fell for 20 years?

Reply to Bad Dog (Reply #2)

Sat May 14, 2016, 11:13 AM

May 2016

What precisely is the link between murder rates and guns?

Bad Dog

(2,025 posts)

24. You have guns and a high murder rate.

Reply to hack89 (Reply #18)

Mon May 16, 2016, 10:33 AM

May 2016

We don't have either. It's not rocket science.

hack89

(39,171 posts)

27. But if the murder rate is cut in half while gun ownership goes up

Reply to Bad Dog (Reply #24)

Mon May 16, 2016, 11:18 AM

May 2016

what does that tell us about the link between guns and the murder rate?

Bad Dog

(2,025 posts)

29. Nothing.

Reply to hack89 (Reply #27)

Mon May 16, 2016, 12:17 PM

May 2016

Other than that figures are probably being manipulated. It's not just murder, it's also death by misadventure, a trigger happy police force and homicide by toddler. All part and parcel of a rather pathetic need to hold onto a gun.

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)

4. IOW, he's saying police are worthless unless they are

Reply to cali (Original post)

Sat May 14, 2016, 06:39 AM

May 2016

allowed to beat and murder suspects with no fear of being recorded. He's full of crap.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)

7. And this is the same guy who REALLY wants to be able to hack into your phone without permission

Reply to Ilsa (Reply #4)

Sat May 14, 2016, 07:17 AM

May 2016

Things that make you go hmmmmmm.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)

9. The FBI is helpless against viral videos, it's a global threat.

Reply to cali (Original post)

Sat May 14, 2016, 09:22 AM

May 2016

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)

10. It is like the assholes who correlate the Civil Rights Era with a spike in crime.

Reply to cali (Original post)

Sat May 14, 2016, 09:36 AM

May 2016

There is no way to prove that ending segregation caused a spike in crime, and only irresponsible assholes would mention it.

Guy Whitey Corngood

(26,501 posts)

11. Yeah well the FBI director is a dickbag who doesn't give a fuck

Reply to cali (Original post)

Sat May 14, 2016, 09:55 AM

May 2016

about due process and so is my mayor.

Wounded Bear

(58,670 posts)

12. I thought Benghazi proved this couldn't happen...

Reply to cali (Original post)

Sat May 14, 2016, 10:26 AM

May 2016

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)

13. Isn't it at least possible that he has hit upon an uncomfortable truth here?

Reply to cali (Original post)

Sat May 14, 2016, 10:35 AM

May 2016

That when the police start making an effort to scupulously follow the rules, because of the likelihood that someone is videoing them, criminals may take advantage? Possibly more crime is just a price we have to pay for better-behaved cops.

cali

(114,904 posts)

15. He has no evidence. It's irresponsible.

Reply to Nye Bevan (Reply #13)

Sat May 14, 2016, 10:39 AM

May 2016

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)

17. What harm could result from him sharing this theory? (nt)

Reply to cali (Reply #15)

Sat May 14, 2016, 10:58 AM

May 2016

Last edited Sat May 14, 2016, 12:13 PM - Edit history (1)

cali

(114,904 posts)

19. You aren't that naive. It fuels the push to make filming cops illegal

Reply to Nye Bevan (Reply #17)

Sat May 14, 2016, 11:14 AM

May 2016

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)

20. Criminals don't "take advantage" like that

Reply to Nye Bevan (Reply #13)

Sat May 14, 2016, 12:04 PM

May 2016

Besides the fact that most criminals aren't very bright, most violent crime -- especially murder -- is spontaneous, and therefore has absolutely nothing to do with videos of police brutality.

If we're playing the Maybe Game, then I'm going to do Bush's FBI director one better: due to constant exposure to real life snuff films starring real life criminals with badges, other criminals feel emboldened. Not because the police are doing their jobs, but because the police set poor examples.