General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWill you be shocked or even surprised if Dirty Donny wins the general election?
I won't be.
AirmensMom
(14,643 posts)MariaThinks
(2,495 posts)mainstreetonce
(4,178 posts)Pass it on
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)It sounds like an elementary school playground.
I'll be more surprised if he doesn't.
This country reelected GWB, for pete's sake.
Wounded Bear
(58,670 posts)It is entirely possible, if not likely, that Trump could lose the popular vote by a somewhat large margin (can we say "landslide?" and still lose the Electoral College vote. It has happened several times on close votes, I fear that it might happen here and now with a not-so-close vote. Almost none of the electoral college votes are actually tied by law to follow the popular vote in the state that awards them, and only a couple of states award them proportionally.
Could we have a Bush 2000 happen again on a grand scale? I fear that we could.
no_hypocrisy
(46,130 posts)Since Reagan and Baby Bush, I'm convinced that Barry Goldwater could have won if he hadn't run in 1964 when the media, the black box voting, conservative thinktanks, and the fundraising wasn't organized to make a loser into a winner.
underpants
(182,830 posts)It's more than the MSM spoon fed demographics thing. First the nation isn't gerrymandered like that house races. If anything the Electoral Colkege is an anti-gerrymanderer.
Second, the numbers are clearly on the Dem side. At 10pm when they start calling eastern states add 78 to the Dem number (CA OR WA HI) and 3 to the Repubs (Alaska). That 78 is about 30% of the 270 needed. A repub would have to win every single battleground and reclaim old sure fire states like Virginia.
I've said this for more than 2 years - it will probably end as it started. Hillary will be President. Everything has been drama which IS the MSM's only product now. I've said this from the start - the 2 things that could stop any Dem candidate is voter apathy and the other side from the primaries not showing up. The anti- votinf measures of the Repubs could have effect too. And we have found out that the registration process in some states is a mess
patricia92243
(12,597 posts)But polling places will have long lines, traffic blocked and all the other ways that Republicans make sure Democratic areas cannot be easily accessed. Because of that big factor, Trump would win.
tblue37
(65,408 posts)Loudestlib
(980 posts)"Americans for Tax Reform produced the map showing that 146 million Americans live in all-GOP states compared to 49 million in all-Democratic states. Another 112 million live in states where the party of the governor and legislature are different."
It's from Norquist but if it's true, it's a problem.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Response to patricia92243 (Reply #6)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)Like that which occured in NV yesterday. Disgraceful display, for what? A couple delegates?
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)for the Dem...seeing how many of them weren't allowed to vote in closed primaries.
They may just stay home.
Another DWS win!
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)Mother Of Four
(1,716 posts)She wouldn't be awful, but it shows how disillusioned people are with same old/same old/and more of the same old politics. It seems like the less likely it is that Bernie will win the nom, the more people are starting to look for an alternative.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)He just graduated college and this is his first presidential election where he can vote. He takes part in a lot of political discussions both online and off, and I was curious as to whether it was true in his circles if people would either vote Trump or stay home (as the DNC and media want us to believe). He said they would either write in Bernie or vote for Jill Stein. Right now I think he is of the mind to vote Green.
No way the people he knows would EVER vote for Trump.
I think when it's all said and done the political process will be changed after this election -- people are flat fed up.
LiberalArkie
(15,719 posts)If there is no one else on the ballot that interests them, then they will not be bother to take time off work to vote. After the way the independents and the young have been treated especially by the Nevada Mafia Convention, they really don't see the need to do it.
It maybe 1968 all over again. The party does not know that things have changed. People don't get their information and entertainment from the local TV stations, or even cable TV anymore. They have a wide variety of sources. The independents today may choose a Green candidate and a Democratic Governor and a local republican for mayor. If there isn't a person they like running for a certain office, they have no problem not voting for anyone for that office.
Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)If someone has no say in the choosing of the nominee, why in the hell would people expect someone to be loyal to, or even vote for, a nominee they had no say in?
doc03
(35,348 posts)like everyone has predicted. It looks like it will be the Democratic convention that will be a battle. The longer we have
Hillary getting hit from Trump and our own Democrats the better his chances.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)And most Americans will bitch and moan, many of whom didn't vote.
JHB
(37,161 posts)titaniumsalute
(4,742 posts)Trump is really hated by Hispanics. Let's 10% vote for him. Trump is really hated by Blacks. Let's say he gets about 5% of them. Women (Dem and Independents) really dislike him. If Trump gets 60% of the female vote there is no way he wins. Period.
The only way he DOES win is if they three voting blocks don't show up.
Turin_C3PO
(14,004 posts)if more than 70% of white men vote for him. I doubt that'll happen though.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)In the past even against Latinos Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz. Check past stats.
They love his immigration message. Most latinos I know hate that their brethren "jumped the line" so to speak and came illegally while they waited their turn.
Trump has also never gotten less than 30% of Republican women either. Cruz typically won @60% of women voters - those hard core conservative women supporters certainly won't vote for Hillary. Which leaves Kasich's moderate women voters - @ 10%. Certainly not enough to break Trump's lock.
Black voters? There's always a small percentage that vote Republican but that rarely breaks 10% anyway. The Republicans are not banking on much higher anyway.
Trump's got a very solid chance. If the Democratic candidate is Hillary, whose a very weak candidate, I presume Trump wins.
titaniumsalute
(4,742 posts)More than 90 percent of Latinos view Trump in a negative light. Yes some are voting for him but in many states you must vote your party affiliation. So quoting who has voted for Trump in the primaries doesn't really mean much.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/poll-trump-poised-get-lowest-vote-ever-among-latinos-n559741
Just wait for the "Mexicans are rapists" commercials to start up again.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)(Trump won 61% of the Latino New York vote)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/24/donald-trump-apparently-won-the-latino-vote-in-nevada-it-doesnt-mean-latinos-suddenly-love-him/
(Nevada he won 45% of the Latino vote)
Here's the most recent poll from 5/13 and Trump leads Hillary 55 -45 among Latinos.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/13/new-poll-trump-leading-hillary-with-hispanic-voters/
titaniumsalute
(4,742 posts)First off...you are sourcing the Washington Times?? Which by the way that article was actually written at Brietbart. I'd source Fox news before the Wash Times or Brietbart.
1. Did you read the article? Trump did not win 61% of the Latino Vote. New York has a closed Primary. He might have won 50% of registered Republican Hispanic vote...which is a very small fraction of overall Hispanic voters. Here see the registered Dems versus Reps by County in New York and NYC. Look at the registered Republicans and THEN think about the Hispanic populatiopn of those Republicans. It is a small small fraction.
http://www.elections.ny.gov/NYSBOE/enrollment/county/county_apr16.pdf
2. In Nevada, yes the Republican latino vote picked Trump. Over Cruz and Kasich. Are you surprised by that? I'm not. The Republican Hispanic voter is a small fraction compared to the Democratic Hispanic voter. The article even explains this.
3. One recent poll...from Gravis (a mostly bullshit polling company...you can Google that yourself) means nothing.
Trump will lose the National Latino vote by at least 75%. Save this post...hit me on November 3rd later this year.
rockfordfile
(8,704 posts)whatthehey
(3,660 posts)That's like saying the vast majority of 7' tall women prefer Brand X shoes. Brand X may still be utterly ignored by almost all women taken as a whole.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)A majority of Latinos, however, support anyone BUT Trump.
MH1
(17,600 posts)I would say "a little surprised perhaps" but that is relevant to where we are now. I suspect if he wins, he'll be close enough in the polls in the days leading up to the election that I won't be surprised the night of.
As of now I don't think he has very much chance if the Dems do a half decent job of the campaign and GOTV. However the Democratic Party has an impressive record of shooting itself in the foot. (Might have something to do with circular firing squads.)
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)General ignorance, like chickens, typically comes home to roost. I'm just sorry that the rest of us, who did see it coming, will also have to suffer.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)the DNC/DLC/DWS/HRC are severely miscalculating the millions of voters fed up with both establishments. The GE will likely be a frightening and depressing spectacle.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)Especially if Hillary is the nominee. That would pretty much guarantee he wins.
Plus, there's a metric fuck-tonne of selfish, stupid people in this country...
-none
(1,884 posts)fuck-tonne? I think you badly misoverestimate the people in this country. It is worse that that. I blame our education racket in this country for producing adults that have never learned to think.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)malthaussen
(17,204 posts)One calculates some things as more likely than others, but it is rather fallacious to make a determinate answer about an indeterminate question. I don't consider it likely at present that Mr Trump will be elected POTUS, but there is a lot of time left and any number of things could happen.
-- Mal
6chars
(3,967 posts)Hayduke Bomgarte
(1,965 posts)Shocked because:
In the run-up to Boy George stealing his first term, I told anyone who would listen, that were he to get into the Oval Office, within 2 years, we'd see gas prices rise to outrageous levels. We'd be in at least 1 war. We'd see Labor and Civil Rights take huge hits and we'd see job losses, as well as a few other predictions I'm not recalling ATM. I was right on every count.
Now I'm telling people that if drumpf worms his way into the White House, within 2 years we won't recognize this country, maybe the world, anymore. It'll be shrub X at least 10.
I believe the collapse of civilized society is inevitable, but always believed, now at 52, that I likely wouldn't see it in my lifetime. At least not to its completion. Not into something perhaps resembling Mad Max films.
My shock from a drumpf win will be from the realization and certainty that within a couple years civilized society will have devolved into utter and complete chaos. Bank on it. Civil war. Food and water riots. Wide spread and massive famine. Out of control disease. Plaques from the dead, lying around in numbers too great to be properly dealt with.
I'm convinced, at best, we're just a few decades from these inevibilities. I'm just as convinced that with drumpf, we'll see it within 2 years.
PufPuf23
(8,791 posts)choice of the sane GOP, specifically, the big money big military that supported the Bushes and Reagan.
One will see a bias in the election process in favor of Hillary Clinton like observed in the 2000 election, the 2004 election, and the 2016 Democratic primaries.
If a miracle occurs, Bernie Sanders will readily beat Trump.
However, if something occurs that stops Clinton within the Democratic party I would expect the DNC and Democratic party leadership to try and probably succeed in nominating someone other than Sanders.
I am not convinced Trump actually wants to be POTUS. Trump may well be simply a stalking horse for Hillary Clinton.
yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It's a bad plan.
libodem
(19,288 posts)Stupid with shock.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)Damn shame really.
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)And they really tried.
I said he wouldn't get this far. Not "probably won't." Just flat out "he won't get the nomination."
That he did surprises me. I misread the alienation in both parties and the desire to just kick over the apple-stand. It's a culture thing, again where elitism and low SES culture make for bedfellows. Consider it anti-intellectualism overlapping with extreme non-veridicality-based intellectualism.
At this point, his winning won't surprise me.
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)because apparently we're going to sail into the general on a ship that's already sinking.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)than the people who actually voted for him
Redwoods Red
(137 posts)We know who polls better against Trump.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Not a very weak candidate
840high
(17,196 posts)can't win it's on her.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Candidates have to make themselves electable. Blaming anyone else is a chickenshit cop-out.
Jackie Wilson Said
(4,176 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Your dazzling riposte notwithstanding, it's still true that a candidate has to make themselves electable, and blaming anyone other than the candidate is weak scapegoating.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)Not frustrated and keeping the ear to ground for loose oncoming locomotives
George Carlin - Arrogance of mankind
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Sure isn't earning Clinton any November votes...
Response to Jackie Wilson Said (Reply #27)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)most. At least if it is Hillary for the Ds.
valerief
(53,235 posts)liberal N proud
(60,336 posts)If not get up and do something about it!
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)JCMach1
(27,559 posts)tabasco
(22,974 posts)But still shocked.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)there are too many of us who see her for what she is.
RandySF
(58,911 posts)But yes, I would be shocked.
Satch59
(1,353 posts)The GE electorate doesn't have the make up to elect a GOP president and Trump has alienated the already alienated by GOP, POC...
Bernie supporters are really willing to sit out and therefore essentially support Trump? HRC will win anyway but would non voting = non voice...
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)who wants "some form of punishment" for women who have abortions?
How many African Americans are going to wake up on election day thinking "I've got to go vote for Donald Trump"? How many Latinos?
These days it takes a lot more than winning the votes of angry white men to win the presidency. When one looks at the demographics, then yes, I would be amazed if Trump somehow managed to win.
woolldog
(8,791 posts)Trump can win by turning out record numbers of white men. His candidacy is nothing like anything we've seen before.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)Not to mention, there are plenty of white men who despise Trump. His support is far from universal.
runaway hero
(835 posts)Don't pretend 200 million people care enough to stop Donald Trump. 130 million total votes would be a great night.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)Or her for him to win. there are other candidates running, and if she keeps alienating people, they will consider green or write-in.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)My bet is you won't. But if you truly feel that way you should get on it now before the people who actually do bet money on it wise up. It is currently sitting at 70% against Trump wining. Real chance there for you to clean up.
https://electionbettingodds.com
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)So far European liberals have contained RW populism as a small, but growing, faction of the right - except in eastern and central Europe where it has had more success. They will look to see what Donald has done that they have not been able to do.
woolldog
(8,791 posts)and the progressive wing of the Dem party.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)They have to make themselves electable; a weak candidate will have a harder time doing that.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)There are some institutional things working against Democrats... and Democrats look like they're going to be running entirely on a "Not Trump!" platform.
Half the American people are uninformed and dumb as stumps. The only thing that would make Trump even more appealing to them is if he chooses Kim Kardashian as his running mate.
Bigmack
(8,020 posts)... needs to figure out what we do if that clown is actually elected.
I mean... how do we protect ourselves and our stuff.
... default on the debt...? Holy Shit! The man is an idiot.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)It won't surprise me if he self destructs between now and then either, but we underestimate him at our peril. He absolutely could win, and that thought is horrifying.
runaway hero
(835 posts)The pundits and rabblerousers are to blame for this, 100 percent. Or maybe we are because of how coarse the culture has become. I know tons of people that act like Donald Trump on a daily basis.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)He wins on hype and no content and a shocking number of people are happy with him. The extreme control by the DNC is partly to blame in my view. I am planning a looooong camping trip with no electronics, smile.
Maru Kitteh
(28,341 posts)I'm a nurse so immigration will not be a thing. I live on the border now.
Yeah. I'll be Canadian.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Nor will the cadre of other primary partisans on this thread.
The people willing to bet on it are still more than willing to bet against it though. Great odds right now if you really feel that way.
https://electionbettingodds.com/
runaway hero
(835 posts)Donald may self destrcut before November, or what I feel is close to happening, the GOP may stab him the back at the convention in Cleveland and go with Rubio or Romney.
franannjo
(29 posts)Pee wee herman could beat our presumtive candidat.
NewImproved Deal
(534 posts)[link:|
yurbud
(39,405 posts)so the machinery is in place to make it happen.
Also, in fairness to Republicans, they understand that elections are about turning out your base, which they do really well with their choice of inflammatory candidates.
Democrats have good get out the vote machinery, but after the primaries, candidates veer so far to the right that Democratic voters feel like we're choosing between a Democratic pimp who just chokes them and a Republican one who will kill them.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)book_worm
(15,951 posts)when this type of thing should be in GD-P. It's also a shame that the moderators of GD let Bernie supporters get away with this.
Turin_C3PO
(14,004 posts)I would however be sad and furious that the American people are so ignorant that they'll vote for a sexist, racist, carnival barking, buffoon.
I'd also be fearful. I have cystic fibrosis and depend on medication that costs in the thousands every month. If he and congress somehow gut the ACA, I'll be without healthcare and likely die within five years. I'm currently on the expanded Medicaid.
Cosmocat
(14,566 posts)this country is absolutely stupid enough to make him POTUS, not for sure, but possibly.
I thought he was a real threat to win the GOP primary from day one because they are dumber than dumb is dumb, and have said he has the nomination in a sleeper hold since Thansksgiving, that he had achieve ungaffable status.
We just can't make a sure call one way or another on the general until a few weeks after the conventions.
He definitely could still keep sucking the air out of the race and choke it out.
But, I suspect he won't be able to help himself from acting like a complete jackass toward Hillary, who I think will be disciplined enough to not get down to his level, while having the capacity to tweak him and really set him off, and will come off more "likeable" or "sympathetic" than she would against a non asshole.
polly7
(20,582 posts)And the world will suffer. Of course, it would with Clinton also ....... but you guys are trying your hardest to throw away the best chance the U.S. and those hurt by your foreign policies in the rest of the world have had for a long, long time.
Sorry, but all the dirty tricks, the DNC's obvious do anything to get their chosen warmongering one crowned - you, who've done everything you can to destroy the legitimate hopes and dreams of millions there determined to upset the status quo, deserve what you get. The rest of the planet doesn't.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)It's going to be a lot closer than most people are willing to admit.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)--imm
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)People's anger at the Establishment is boiling over and our side decided to go with the corporate tool candidate rather than the real Progressive.
If Trump wins the Democratic Party Establishment will only have themselves to blame for that horror.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)of the democratic party fail to comprehend that millions and millions of voters are fed up with both establishments. So, what do TPTB in the democratic party do, thrust forward an establishment candidate with lots of baggage.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)RandySF
(58,911 posts)On the Republican Party finding a way to nominate someone else.
TBF
(32,067 posts)where there are more "Hillary for prison" bumper stickers per capita than people. If we run Bernie we MAY have a chance. Donald will destroy Hillary.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)The smart money at the moment seems to be about 3-1 in favour of Clinton, or slightly better.
A 20-25% event occurring would surprise me but not shock me.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)This is an anti-establishment year, and no one is more establishment than Hillary.
Hekate
(90,714 posts)... or doing some of the other self-destructive things threatened here on a regular basis.
Most Democrats will vote for the Democrat on the General Election ballot. Most Democrats will refrain (and already do refrain) from spreading RW smears about other Democrats.
Hopefully most Democrats will invest some time informing themselves about voter registration, which varies by state, and about what the Democratic Party Platform is versus the GOP Platform. Hopefully more voters will actually get involved in local politics and learn what is actually involved in making things work.
Butterbean
(1,014 posts)I get my polling data from Nate Silver and from RCP. Both have Hillary ahead, not by a huge lead but comfortable enough. I really honestly don't think Trump will win. I just don't. I'm not a huge HRC fan, either. I simply don't see a win for Trump in the numbers. It's just not there.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)We'd just have elected a clinical NPD head case who ran on a fascist platform. We might be looking at the worst news for the country's well-being since the 1860s.
JosephAlanWatson
(19 posts)I will be curious on his first move though. I feel like he will make the white house comedy gold.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Awful candidate running a terrible campaign. Burning the bridges to Sanders supporters and driving them away will not only cause her to lose, but down ticket Democrats as well. It's goiing to be another DWS orchestrated bloodbath.
Bjornsdotter
(6,123 posts)The people of the US re-elected Bush in 2004....I am shock proof after that.
kentuck
(111,103 posts)he could very well win. Republicans that support him should not be able to avoid scrutiny.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Will they get their way? Republicans have shown themselves adept and disenfranchising voters and stealing elections.
mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)Purveyor
(29,876 posts)clinton supporter around these parts.
2016 may very well seem like the 'good ole days' by time 2020 rolls around...
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)the tremendous hatred for both establishments. So, FFS, they trot out an establishment politician with lots of establishment baggage.
MFM008
(19,818 posts)Brown Jenkin Trump is history in November. ( PS look up Brown Jenkin).
Rybak187
(105 posts)PeteSelman
(1,508 posts)This is an incredibly stupid country.
Sejon
(109 posts)BootinUp
(47,165 posts)I rely on real world statistics and trends, and undisputed facts more than gut feel.
1. Without a doubt the Democrats have a clear and very significant advantage, based on trends in demographics and voting analysis over ANY puke candidate.
2. Trump's ability to game a puke primary with his shtick is NO indication he can do so in a general election.
3. We have never seen a candidate like Trump with his open disdain for women and brown people succeed in the modern era.
All indicators point to we got this.
basselope
(2,565 posts)Unless one of those things happen, we bunked down for 4 years.q
tenderfoot
(8,437 posts)Will I be shocked or surprised?
I am by your behavior.
sendero
(28,552 posts).... in fact it is his to lose IMHO.
And every time I see the MSM talking heads wax indignant about Trump's latest outrage, I'm pretty sure he gains a few votes.
Initech
(100,081 posts)If Donald is elected, I'm out of here.
beaglelover
(3,486 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)At this point, I'm rooting for a Clinton indictment that kills her candidacy.
quaker bill
(8,224 posts)Nothing surprises me any more. Brown shirts at the NV Democratic Convention, the stomping out of progressive ideals in the Democratic Party, willfully blind enablers and paid trolls .... it sickens me.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)near the nomination, but now he is for all intense purposes the nominee. Now, some say the same about a WH win for Trump in 2016. I think many just do not realize the tremendous anger against establishments in the US, perhaps because they do not travel in those circles.
That all said, I think there is a real possibility Trump could win in 2016. The problem is millions want change, and even if it's a change toward disaster, they well might vote for him only on the basis of a desire for radical change.
I see the USA as very unstable. FFS, I dread what the 2016 election might usher in.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)thereismore
(13,326 posts)Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)ever since it became apparent that no serious Democrat was going to run against an irrational Hillary Clinton, and no, Larry David's hit one-man show isn't a serious candidate.
The Democratic Party establishment will make sure of it - see Nevada for a good example of their work.
Response to cali (Original post)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
mia
(8,361 posts)Sad to say that I'm expecting it.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)Elizabeth Warren could bring the party together.
If Hillary Clinton chooses a centrist, instead, then I won't be surprised if she loses.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)I consider Trump the underdog but not so much of an underdog that his win would be a shock. Subjectively, I'll put his probability of success at 20% versus Sanders and 30% versus Clinton.
Of course, if you had asked me a year ago to handicap the Republican race, I would've put Trump's probability of being the nominee at about 1% -- so what do I know.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)DetlefK
(16,423 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)the nom to bed. With all the dumb things he's said and done during this primary, and in his life, he put his primary to bed a while back.
Having donated to politicians and received favors from them, he is going to play the Hillary Wall Street thing to death. Same for Bill and all his history, including the Lolita Express. It's going to be ugly.
Response to cali (Original post)
Turbineguy This message was self-deleted by its author.
ReasonableToo
(505 posts)If the polls are close the vote counters can count according to plan. Same as for Bush/Gore.
If Bernie is nominated and he polls 15 or so points ahead of T then it's hard to overcome that gap with flipping and disenfranchisement.
It would absolutely suck to have T in there and would show the world once and for all, without any doubt, that we don't have a legitimate electoral system or a legitimate media informing our electorate.
So if we were watching this nonsense unfold in another country would officials be mulling over what to do about that country?
Shadowflash
(1,536 posts)The GE will not be a closed election.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Unless we go all in for reparations for slavery, we are sunk.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)And yet so many here profess that he is a certainty, in words backed by nothing. Why the difference?