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Zorro

(15,740 posts)
Wed May 25, 2016, 08:11 PM May 2016

The work of Neanderthals: Ancient ring-like structures date from 176,000 years ago

Deep in a dark cave in southwestern France lie half a dozen mysterious structures that scientists believe were built by Neanderthals 176,000 years ago -- more than 130,000 years before the first modern humans arrived in Europe.

The structures, described Wednesday in the journal Nature, are located in what is known as the Bruniquel Cave. They are made of roughly 400 pieces of stalagmites, all roughly, almost eerily, the same size.

Archaeologists say these mineral formations were probably broken off the cave floor by ancient hands and then deliberately arranged into two large ring shapes and a series of four round piles up to 15 inches high.

If all the pieces were gathered up and placed on a scale, they would weigh 2.4 tons.

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-neanderthals-cave-structures-20160525-snap-story.html

There's still a lot to discover out there.

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The work of Neanderthals: Ancient ring-like structures date from 176,000 years ago (Original Post) Zorro May 2016 OP
Those guys always seem to get a bad rap. dawg May 2016 #1
The joke's on us. Act_of_Reparation May 2016 #13
My nephew's fiance took a DNA test. She is 5% Neanderthal. Very smart girl ALBliberal May 2016 #17
That is the highest Neanderthal % I have heard of. Enthusiast May 2016 #23
I must have recalled it wrong probably 2 or 3% ALBliberal May 2016 #30
I believe I read somewhere that Europeans were generally between 2% and 5% Neanderthal DNA. Enthusiast May 2016 #31
Wow, 5% is really high. Usually it's around 2% in Europeans. nt thereismore May 2016 #24
Mine registers at <4% Zorro May 2016 #50
Yes, that sounds right. 4% is quite high. nt thereismore May 2016 #51
I bet she's great at barbecueing meat (nt) Nye Bevan May 2016 #38
She's a vegetarian!! By ALBliberal May 2016 #39
Intro Anthro prof clearly had a higher %, an observation he enjoyed sharing in class bigbrother05 May 2016 #20
We survived through assimilation, I imagine. Baitball Blogger May 2016 #43
I believe it's 2 to 4%. But your point still stands. Fantastic Anarchist May 2016 #44
The studies I saw were published in 2014. Act_of_Reparation May 2016 #48
Yep, I think you're right. Fantastic Anarchist May 2016 #49
Larger brain/mass ratio than Homo sapiens but greiner3 May 2016 #18
We don't know anything about white and gray matter of Neanderthals. It's all conjecture. nt thereismore May 2016 #25
Never mind the color of the brain Mike__M May 2016 #27
Exactly. All we know that evidence of symbolic representations, even burials, is somewhat weak. thereismore May 2016 #33
Or they were just bored LOL- My cat does funny things with string snooper2 May 2016 #29
To me it looked like they were just cleaning up. Yupster May 2016 #52
Well, their brains were larger and heavier Warpy May 2016 #32
Gene Simmons lives! Fantastic Anarchist May 2016 #45
Unfortunately, the genome said something a little different Warpy May 2016 #46
You corrected his joke with accuracy. Now it's damned hilarious... LanternWaste May 2016 #54
They were around for a really long time. Blue_In_AK May 2016 #42
The much maligned Neanderthals, whose DNA so many of us share, were Surya Gayatri May 2016 #2
many immunities they gave us. They also had a much, much larger brain than us. Among other things. roguevalley May 2016 #3
Did they have large hands too? beastie boy May 2016 #6
Wow. Thanks for posting. zentrum May 2016 #4
I know we all have some Neanderthal in us, but I loved learning I had more Neanderthal in me than valerief May 2016 #5
I was tested too. Proud 3.1%! nolabear May 2016 #11
Lucky you! You got the test results when they gave out percentages. They don't do that now. I just valerief May 2016 #15
I was lucky. I got in right before the FDA did. nolabear May 2016 #22
Right. I've downloaded the raw data and done some research on the web. Of course, there are some valerief May 2016 #40
k and r niyad May 2016 #7
But what do I know, I'm just a caveman lawyer hibbing May 2016 #8
"Hey George, whatcha buildin'? "Don't know, but it's gonna be the first one". jtuck004 May 2016 #9
OK, but do the scientists know why lindysalsagal May 2016 #10
the very first art installation. nt Javaman May 2016 #12
Could be purely utilitarian, but people will argue till they stroke out. nt thereismore May 2016 #34
but but that is more than 6000 years ago...that can not be true dembotoz May 2016 #14
lolz Snarkoleptic May 2016 #16
Trust my pastor science advisor, good one, lol. sarcasmo May 2016 #47
Build That Wall! elljay May 2016 #19
They Were Smarter Than We First Thought colsohlibgal May 2016 #21
And their ancestors make crop circles. Now we know where it all started. tonyt53 May 2016 #26
Wow! Thanks for posting. tabasco May 2016 #28
It's becoming clear that we are the modern Neanderthals! StarzGuy May 2016 #35
Well "we" being Europeans and Asians Loki Liesmith May 2016 #55
They were French? Bucky May 2016 #36
Wonderful find! lagomorph777 May 2016 #37
Fascinating find! smirkymonkey May 2016 #41
Cylons taught 'em nt MrScorpio May 2016 #53

dawg

(10,624 posts)
1. Those guys always seem to get a bad rap.
Wed May 25, 2016, 08:50 PM
May 2016

They were probably just as smart or even smarter than us individually. We just network better.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
13. The joke's on us.
Thu May 26, 2016, 09:01 AM
May 2016

Early Homo Sapiens bred with Homo Neanderthalensis. Twenty percent of the H. Neanderthalensis genome is preserved in humans of non-African descent. We are them.

ALBliberal

(2,342 posts)
17. My nephew's fiance took a DNA test. She is 5% Neanderthal. Very smart girl
Thu May 26, 2016, 12:07 PM
May 2016

Masters from Yale etc. Interesting result for sure.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
31. I believe I read somewhere that Europeans were generally between 2% and 5% Neanderthal DNA.
Thu May 26, 2016, 03:22 PM
May 2016

We are considering sending our samples in. I'll probably set the record for caveman DNA.

Zorro

(15,740 posts)
50. Mine registers at <4%
Fri May 27, 2016, 10:02 AM
May 2016

but is still reportedly greater than 90% of the population.

23andme is an interesting site/proposition -- very interesting revelations about one's ancestry, but privacy advocates are disturbed that their database could be exploited in the future for nefarious purposes.

bigbrother05

(5,995 posts)
20. Intro Anthro prof clearly had a higher %, an observation he enjoyed sharing in class
Thu May 26, 2016, 01:20 PM
May 2016

Not quite as craggy, more like a 3rd/4th gen N'thal.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
48. The studies I saw were published in 2014.
Fri May 27, 2016, 07:47 AM
May 2016

Maybe you mean 2-4% of individual human genomes are Neanderthal genes?

 

greiner3

(5,214 posts)
18. Larger brain/mass ratio than Homo sapiens but
Thu May 26, 2016, 12:33 PM
May 2016

Lacking the white matter. Remains to be seen if this is the reason for perceived lower iqs than us Dolphins also fit the brain/mass higher than us but a lack of tools etc is due to no hands and can't have fire in a wet environment but again, the jury is still out if they are or not smarter than us

thereismore

(13,326 posts)
33. Exactly. All we know that evidence of symbolic representations, even burials, is somewhat weak.
Thu May 26, 2016, 03:34 PM
May 2016

But we do know that they knew how to make pitch from birch bark that requires skillful use of controlled fire.

We also know they survived conditions (ice age) that would put a chill in my bones.

Yupster

(14,308 posts)
52. To me it looked like they were just cleaning up.
Fri May 27, 2016, 10:55 AM
May 2016

and making house.

They broke off the ones on the ground to give themselves a fairly level floor for their sleeping place and they used the broken off pieces to make a boundary of their living space. The rest were put in a few piles.

Warpy

(111,267 posts)
32. Well, their brains were larger and heavier
Thu May 26, 2016, 03:24 PM
May 2016

and they were far from stupid and we know from the hyoid bone we finally found that they were capable of speech. In fact, they share a lot more DNA with us than our closest living relatives, the chimpanzees, do.

In fact, the match was close enough that we interbred with them, a smart thing to do when resources needed to be pooled and knowledge of how to survive shared. They might have looked a little odd, but they were as human as we are, their evolution taking them in a slightly different direction so they could survive the last Ice Age outside Africa. Check out some of the facial reconstructions done by forensic sculptors, you wouldn't stare at them on the subway.

What they found is that the Neanderthals tended to stay put in their family groups, hunting and gathering in different spots in their territory at different times of the year. Homo Sap. tended to wander around, following herds from place to place and following the ripening vegetation as seasonal warming occurred. We didn't slaughter them, we simply outnumbered and outbred them.

Warpy

(111,267 posts)
46. Unfortunately, the genome said something a little different
Thu May 26, 2016, 08:47 PM
May 2016

They had fair skin and red hair. Here's a kid, reconstructed in France:



 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
54. You corrected his joke with accuracy. Now it's damned hilarious...
Fri May 27, 2016, 11:02 AM
May 2016

You corrected his joke with accuracy. Now it's damned hilarious...

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
42. They were around for a really long time.
Thu May 26, 2016, 07:29 PM
May 2016

I'm sure they were very adapted to their environment. I think it's really interesting how they're discovering now that Neanderthals and Homo sapiens mingled their genes. When I was young, such a thing would have been thought impossible.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
2. The much maligned Neanderthals, whose DNA so many of us share, were
Wed May 25, 2016, 08:58 PM
May 2016

pretty clever and inventive. These stalagmite Stonehenges were soulful early works of art.

These people weren't just some hand-dragging, grunting oafs.

beastie boy

(9,363 posts)
6. Did they have large hands too?
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:25 PM
May 2016

All around bad news for Trump. Enough to give him a bad case of Neanderthal envy.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
5. I know we all have some Neanderthal in us, but I loved learning I had more Neanderthal in me than
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:45 PM
May 2016

92% of the population at 23andme. Everything else in test results was boring as all hell.

Here are two tests done:
You have 1 Neanderthal variant associated with a reduced tendency to sneeze after eating dark chocolate.
You have 1 Neanderthal variant associated with your height.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
15. Lucky you! You got the test results when they gave out percentages. They don't do that now. I just
Thu May 26, 2016, 09:13 AM
May 2016

Last edited Thu May 26, 2016, 12:22 PM - Edit history (3)

know I have 311 variants. The person with the most variants (in their database) has 387.

However, assuming the person with the most in their database has 4% Neanderthal, then that 387 is 4% of 9675. Therefore, I'd be 3.21% Neanderthal. But I'm just guessing here.

nolabear

(41,984 posts)
22. I was lucky. I got in right before the FDA did.
Thu May 26, 2016, 01:57 PM
May 2016

They gave out all kinds of medical and trait oriented info that they couldn't for quite some time because the FDA wanted their cut I guess. It's improved somewhat now but they still don't give quite as much info.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
40. Right. I've downloaded the raw data and done some research on the web. Of course, there are some
Thu May 26, 2016, 05:03 PM
May 2016

things I just don't want to know. I can't even remember now what I looked up. Nothing that said I was a genius and eminently good-looking and would live to be 140. OTOH, I didn't find anything that DIDN'T say that!

hibbing

(10,098 posts)
8. But what do I know, I'm just a caveman lawyer
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:59 PM
May 2016

Cool article, thanks for posting this, I love reading about new discoveries like this.

Peace

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
9. "Hey George, whatcha buildin'? "Don't know, but it's gonna be the first one".
Wed May 25, 2016, 11:08 PM
May 2016

That's really interesting, thank you for posting.

dembotoz

(16,806 posts)
14. but but that is more than 6000 years ago...that can not be true
Thu May 26, 2016, 09:04 AM
May 2016

guess i will have to trust my pastor science advisor

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
21. They Were Smarter Than We First Thought
Thu May 26, 2016, 01:54 PM
May 2016

It kind of validates that old song "I'm A Neanderthal Man" and the Neanderthal girl mentioned in the tune.

I always thought we did not vanish them, we merged with them...to put it nicely.

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