to his chattel... Ummm I mean wife.

My husband ever pull that on me he'd be served.

unless you weren't on the title.

When we married I moved into my husbands home.

He had children from a previous marriage, brothers, sisters, mother, father.

There was never a thought to whom this house belongs. To me and my spouse. I didn't need a caretaker on the deed cuz maybe I couldn't handle finances or my own future & value in this relationship.... as an equal partner.

In a community property state, property acquired during the marriage is held jointly, but property acquired before the marriage (and property inherited by one spouse) remains the separate property of that spouse.

He owned part of his Father's House, too

https://www.stlucie.county-taxes.com/public/real_estate/parcels/3420-635-0092-000-0

My Mom had asked about this - how did he purchase all of this property in St Lucie County?? I can see that he paid cash for this house and the other houses he owned.

they have a lot of ways to get around that to own property. this sort of family lending is not uncommon.

What possible explanation could there be?
If the family is involved it's looking less like a self loathing homosexual and more like a planned event.

There are certain things that are very obvious.

I also don't buy the self-loathing gay stuff, because of the Disneyworld scouting.

The family has been investing in real estate. When borrowing to buy a house, though, some lenders stipulate that the house be owner occupied for a certain length of time. A borrower legally can get these deals on only one dwelling at a time. So people, especially small time real estate investors/flippers, commit fraud sometimes to get these loans. They get family members with good credit ratings to sign the initial mortgage, and live in it for the required couple of years (or fake living in it) while they themselves make the monthly mortgage payments. After the time period is up and the mortgage is paid off the family members on the deed will quit claim on the property for a nominal amount to the person who actually made the monthly mortgage payments.

Or perhaps Mateen, his father and sister simply had a better credit rating for a mortgage than his brother did and nothing nefarious was going on. The timing sure does look suspicious, in any case.

The brother wouldn't comment to a Daily Mail reporter, ergo.......

My British cyber friends clued me in on that paper years ago.

Quit claims are not necessarily nefarious - I even did one once. They were living in an apartment; maybe Mateen couldn't afford Florida insurance or something but wanted the house to stay in the family. He may have wanted to put his affairs in order because he knew what he was going to do. That doesn't mean they did.

Please, if you're ever called to jury duty find some way to get out of it.

take note when they are repeatedly warned that attacks on citizens are going to take place.

Our government has repeatedly failed to give a shit when they have been warned, while expending BILLIONS trying to detect if grandma is getting too many cat videos.

That right there is the fucking definition of asinine.

Last edited Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:14 AM - Edit history (1)

but here's the FBI's side of it:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/13/james-comey-defends-fbis-handling-of-omar-mateen-i/

... um, "Public relations" to prevent people from pointing the finger at an agency that has enough resources to drown an ant in a desert.

Woops, think you might have gone too far this time.

Last edited Sat Jun 18, 2016, 12:17 AM - Edit history (1)

He was an American citizen, not a prisoner of war.

You read the article awfully fast. Are you a speed reader? What do you think the FBI should have done?

I also have an inbuilt bullshit detector.

What should the FBI have done?

You made a statement.

That is exactly where the point of failure occurred.

What do you think the FBI should have done?

Because my uncle did for over 40 years.

He lived out his last bit of life with us.

Amazing human being, masters degree in mathematics.

I'm not very good at handling frauds after a tragedy.

Do you have any respect for the FBI having had an amazing uncle who worked for them?

One gun shop reported Mateen after he tried to buy a bullet proof vest and ammunition. Unfortunately there was no way to find out who this was.

Another didn't report him. They sold him the weapon. The owner is an Obama hater but he didn't break any laws.

Without some specific recent information what was the FBI supposed to do?

Let me digress and be impolite to your PR outreach, because you have this coming.

Go fly a kite.

Do I have your permission to talk to somebody else? You can always block me, you know.

BIG time! And media continues to spread the meme that he was probably just some dysfunctional angry young man at odds with the beliefs of his elders?

It seems to me that meticulous planning preceded the terror that this guy walked into The Pulse with and our government is scrambling to point the finger away from their own ineptitude.

on concerns from employees in a gun store when they had no way to identify the man?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-shooting-gun-store-owner-says-they-called-fbi-about-omar-mateen/

Underwear Bomber. US government was warned *TWICE* by his father.
This attack: Warned repeatedly
Boston Bombing: Repeatedly warned.

I'm getting pretty sick of the FBI, CIA and DOD getting warned about attacks then pretending to be surprised by them.

They take WAY too many of our tax dollars to be this stupid, and I don't think they are stupid.

This *has* to be by design. I'm sorry, you don't screw up that much and it be "coincidence" "accidental" or "slip through the cracks".

The FBI never even went to that store in May after they were called, didn't even bother to look at the security video that the store still was saving at that time (it's long gone now), thought nothing was alarming about a fellow looking to obtain full body armor, no red flags when he made a phone call and spoke only in Arabic to the person on the other end (right in that gun store, in front of the clerks), and then further tried to buy a mass quantity of ammo.

In all that is logical, if any gun store refuses to sell and make tons of cash off of their grisly merchandise, that right there might be a reasonable expectation for the FBI to follow-up on suspicion concerns.

I don't get why you seem to want to let the authorities off the hook in this horrible mass-murder, an attack on the LGBT nation by a religious fundamentalist. I don't often make posts, either, and I've been here from practically the very beginning, since 2001, more than fifteen years...watched a lotta crap happen between members and also, against certain members. Today, after I read thru the umpteenth thread posing the ridiculous idea that the murderer, himself, was some poor tortured soul, I've spoken up.

I despise bigotry, I detest Islamophobia possibly more than you do, but I also can spot liberal-lite homophobia when I see it, and when I watch an attempt by the MSM propaganda machine, government authorities, and people around me trying desperately to push this terror right back into the face of LGBT folk, it truly disgusts me.

address, phone number, something, maybe they could have tracked him. The story I read didn't mention the video, I don't think. Maybe it wouldn't have been clear enough to get any kind of positive ID. They'd have been looking for a moving needle in a haystack not even knowing where the guy was from.

I apparently am too naive to recognize MSM propaganda if I see it. All the stories I've seen are on the Net (I don't have TV) and I try to stick to the videos of the actual people speaking, not just the possibly inaccurate story.

According to some of the Pulse regulars, especially Chris Callen, Mateen was something of a regular too for around three years. Then there's the dating site and so on, like going to gay bars in college. I don't think all that is an effort to push it back on gays, especially when the information is coming from gays.

Asking a simple question about what more the FBI could have done isn't letting the authorities "off the hook", IMO. They had to have probable cause and there just wasn't any after 2014. Maybe if Noor had had exact knowledge of what he was planning to do when and where and reported it they could have detained him but she didn't and they didn't. Without specific knowledge it would be like trying to predict the time and exact location of a lightning strike.

A friend of one of my sons lived next door to the bomb builder in the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993. He said there was no indication he was anything other than a nice normal guy. That one was definitely a well planned terrorist attack and the FBI did have information but the bombing happened anyway.

I'm just concerned that Mateen's family is getting blamed and even accused of being part of it when the evidence isn't pointing that way. If it turns out they were involved and it was a genuine terrorist attack I will happily eat my words but I have an aversion to kangaroo courts, even when they're just on threads on forums.

If Noor has truly vanished I'm sure the FBI is expending every effort to find her. Has there been any more word on this?

watch all three network evening news daily, listen to CNN and MSNBC regularly, and read headlines at all the nation's top newspapers. If I were her, I'd go underground, too, and I'd think that government authorities may have helped her along in that, sticking her in a safe house or some place where conservative rabid wingnuts can never find her, while they find out exactly how much she knew about her husband's intentions and how much she may have helped him in his dastardly plot and if she was capable of stopping him.

What you've said somewhere in another post about her situation in their marriage, that she possibly was also a battered wife, just like Mateen's first spouse (who has appeared in numerous television interviews telling how controlling and explosive he was), rings true to me. After almost five years of marriage, the man only recently "allowed" her to learn to drive a car and get a license. I don't think there's any doubt that Mateen was a flaming bigot and probably despised women as much as he hated LGBTs. And I can imagine a person living in such a relationship being afraid to defy or report him.

I take with a grain of salt the reports that he had been scoping out the gay community. I'm just a lowly country jake and all that those stories make me think is, what better way to throw the FBI off of his trail. The timing of his first "assessment" by the FBI back in 2013 actually coincides with some of the tales of his LGBT involvement, so I would not be too quick to discount the absolute cunning that such a person was capable of, considering now what he has actually succeeded in doing.

If you could have heard the twenty-four hour supposing and speculation on the murderer's "gayness" that various tv commentators, idiotic blowhards, political pundits, and government security representatives have been blathering across the airwaves all this week, you might understand why it's upsetting to me and why I can only consider such an effort as deliberate propaganda.

Where did you hear about Mateen's wife "vanishing"?

The end.

That he was investigated by security authorities due to red-flag warnings by people who knew him gives this whole week of ridiculous juggling speculation on the motive for his attack a sickening flavor.

I think that the natural response by someone who carries an ultimate nefarious intent, if the FBI comes knocking, would be to do anything and everything to throw those authorities off of their track.

He played that game to the hilt. And succeeded.

Which is sick.

people who haven't even been charged with anything yet. I'm not particularly tolerant of any religion but there's not much I can do about it. I do not like seeing people condemn all Muslims because of Omar Mateen. As far as is known he wasn't even a member of ISIS.

No one's throwing gays under the bus here that I can see. If Mateen was a self-hating gay that may help explain his motives. I'd like to hear from a few psychiatrists on this. I'm sure they have opinions too.

Islamic fundamentalist terrorist.

So much so that a lot of posters here have become" experts"in closet Gay rage and Gay self loathing - it is embarrassingly Homophobic.

I'm not going to jump on the homophobic bus, because too many of us have been run over by the asshole religion one.

I'm still trying to make sense out of something so out in the orbit senseless, it is ungraspable.

he was an Islamic terrorist wannabe. He pledged allegiance to three different groups who are at odds with each other.

Nauseatingly so.

Sorry, I'm not going to sit here and say it was not religiously motivated.

Maybe I'm bigoted against Islam, go ahead and stick that sign on my forehead. I really don't give a shit at this point when people are bleeding and dying in the street because of it.

Mass shooters usually are disturbed young men. So far there's no evidence the attack was anything else.

I like evidence with my beliefs.

that he identified with ideology promoted by some Islamic groups. His father, for instance, is a vocal supporter of the Taliban. Mateen himself posted, prior to the posts he sent out that night, supporting violent jihad. It's not an either'/or thing. He wasn't motivated by any one thing, but by many different things. Of course you're free to deny that evidence exists, but that seems a bit silly.

that said Mateen's father supported Afghan Taliban ideology. He asked for an interview to clarify some of his statements.

on the internet Monday morning as 49 funerals were being planned.

He walked back one of his statements. Isn't his anti-gayness supposed to have been part of the problem? Apparently the father fancied himself the leader of an Afghan government in exile. The mother was once arrested for assaulting the father. Sounds like a rather strange family. Definitely not The Waltons.

Breaking news is that Noor has vanished. Omar turned his money over to her and apparently she took it and ran. Can't say I blame her, especially after some of the lynch mob comments I've been seeing.

Someone who appears complicit in mass murder?

Unbelievable

People here have been calling for life imprisonment before she's even been charged. Her parents are from Palestine. I guess that makes her guilty even though she was born here.

She may be afraid of the authorities, or a mob. I think she should have been in protective custody when she was cooperating. It seems she was staying with her inlaws.

How are we defining "complicit" here? Was she complicit because she tried to talk him out of doing anything? Maybe she thought she had persuaded him or had no clear idea of what he was planning. Maybe she was too afraid to say anything. The first wife was beaten. Maybe this one was too.

I'm awaiting further developments. Maybe she's just hiding from reporters.

is a failure.

Raw, real people exist here, and your brand of mish mash silly crap is not venerated here.

We have had a damn tragedy - stop it.

I've tried to be nice to you.

Please don't ask me to be nice for a third time.

He covered a lynching near his home town in Indiana. I was a kid when I was told about this. I didn't understand why my daddy couldn't have stopped the mob. Now I do.

I haven't asked you to be nice at all. I understand the anger but lashing out at everyone from Mateen's wife to the FBI is what? More hate?

This General Discussion, isn't it, and not some closed group where Pollyanna isn't allowed?

The Daily Mail is not considered a credible source and labeling a whole family based on one of their stories seems a bit reprehensible to me. I suggest that family is going through hell too. I wouldn't talk to one of their reporters either.

I joined this forum four years ago and other than a few posts against guns (not well received) I've been absolutely quiet until quite recently. I'm just a member, not a PR person, not a member of the FBI. I'm just seeing some things that are rather frightening to me.

I wasn't expecting that.

You are defending mass murder. It's disgusting.

I wish you'd stop twisting what I say.

I think I've seen some mob mentality right here on good ol' DU. It's unstoppable. My dad understood that but I didn't like the way he explained it.

I have compasion for all the families. 50 people are dead. Maybe trying to understand it is a way of dealing with it.

What ever would we do if we did have all these people 'splainin' to us what is homophobic and what isn't?! Where ever would we be?! Perhaps we are all self-loathing?! We also aren't "mourning" properly and wouldn't know this were it not for these giving souls. Between shit like that bullshit "article" about the FBI telling the family to ]Inot speak about his alleged homosexuality, the constant "explaining" the need for codified homophobia with the blood donation laws, the "NO! It isn't that it's self-loathing/NRA/guns/Trump who are responsible" posts and the constant "he was a self loathing homo and I knew it!" self-congratulatory posts by people who know all about homosexuals and homophobia, it has been beyond frustrating; it is been down right anger-provoking!

"God will punish those involved in homosexuality."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-shooting-omar-mateen-father-seddique-mateen-taliban-god-punish-gays/

Rationalize that. Go ahead. On the day his son caused so much sorrow, this is what the father said. You have to own that, as do the others in this thread defending him.

He also said this:

“He doesn't have the right, nobody has the right to harm anything, anybody. What a person's lifestyle is, is up to him. It's a free country. Everybody has their own choice to live the way they want to live.”

I'm not "touting" the man. His son committed an horrific act and he posted something insensitive but apparently the father doesn't know what made his "good son" do it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-orlando-shooters-afghan-roots/2016/06/13/d89a8cd0-30e4-11e6-ab9d-1da2b0f24f93_story.html

I found Pastor Jimenez' rant about dead pedophiles to be seriously offensive. Preaching misinformation and hate any time is wrong but at a time like that? Has he been defrocked? Being "devout" apparently gives people the right to spew such stuff - 1st Amendment and all that.

Mateen's wife and father were put on the no fly list during the investigation. It's not like nothing at all has been happening to them.

Before you start accusing me of being pro-Taliban or something I'd like to reiterate my point that there's been no evidence, AFAIK, that Mateen's family members were involved in the killings. Nevertheless some of the DUers are convicting and sentencing them before they've even been charged. Isn't that at least a little premature? I hope none of our homegrown vigilants decide to burn them out or open fire on a mosque or anything like that. I hope someone's watching out for their safety as well as watching them.

Innocent until proved guilty.

I'm saving my hate for the gun merchant who sold him the weapon and the laws that allowed him to do that. I try not to hate everybody before I've had my morning coffee.

This is what you posted:
"There was an early report

that said Mateen's father supported Afghan Taliban ideology. He asked for an interview to clarify some of his statements.

Mateen said he did not raise his son in America to become a terrorist, and that he never suspected a turn to the dark side of extremism."

But Mateen's father also said horrible anti gay things as 49 graves were being dug. You tout such a person as trustworthy and excellent.

He did not post a flurry of comments and he asked for an interview in which he tried to clarify what he meant by that one statement.

Is he anti-gay? Probably. Does it matter? Probably not. He thought he's the president of Afghanistan, cabinet and all. The mother was once arrested for assaulting him and was apparently rather paranoid, especially after someone threw eggs at their house. According to one report nothing Omar could do was good enough for his father and said father apparently didn't think there was a problem with his son's troubles at schools. Someone at Pulse said Omar complained about his father being "strict" while he was getting drunk. I'm wondering if "strict"="abusive". I'm sure more will come out about the killer's home life as time goes on.

No matter what the father's faults and ideology there doesn't seem to be any evidence he was part of the plan to shoot up the nightclub or even knew about it.

Anyone can read these threads and see what I actually said. I don't think they need your spin on what I clearly wrote.

The gun seller posted hateful remarks about Muslims and others on Facebook and called for the President's public execution. How about we demonize him - just for a change?

would have done any good. Apparently the father wouldn't have allowed it.

"The New York Daily news interviewed a former elementary teacher of Mateen’s, Kathleen Zurich, who said she blames Seddique 'for all of this.' Zurich said Seddique ignored his son’s behavior, which was totally 'out-of-control. She said,'He was in denial about his son even then' and would say, 'Oh Omar, he does nothing wrong.' Zurich went onto say, 'One of the teachers told his father, ‘If he continues like this, picking on other kids, he’s going to end up shot.'"

So many warning signs all along........

I think all of us need a big damn hug.



I'm not even being ironic about that. This tears me up, spits me out and makes me wish for a kinder reality.

We've also got an "FBI, NSA and Homeland Security" problem, too. How many times do you have to be warned about an imminent terrorist attack to get off of your ass and do something about it?

Monitor the hell out of our email, phone calls and other strange shit, but you can't prevent people from getting killed when you are *WARNED* about it?

Great - please keep searching my damn phone for cat videos while 100 people get shot in a club.

Swatting at gnats while a tiger is eating your ass seems to be the modus operandi of our "security" agencies.

It's been impossible here (and elsewhere).

I'm so sorry.

Too bad so many fail to understand this and work to perpetuate it. I am sure many of them are wondering how this tragedy could happen against the gay community...they needn't look further than their own noses.

....was also abused. He made plans for her control from beyond the grave.

New info on this turd's background reads exactly like every other US mass murderer, just with that little "I Heart ISIS" message tossed in at the very end.

targeted on the Monday after the murders. That is not typical. It's just not. What it is is disgusting.

If he's not gay then he killed due to hatred of others brought about by infusion with Islamic ideology, if he is gay he did it because of self hatred and hatred of others caused by Islamic ideology.

I got a pale shadow of that self hatred growing up atheist in a theist culture, looking back I think I stopped believing by seven or eight and by ten I knew the word for what I was and I knew what the people around me thought of that.

To also believe the religious claptrap and still get the hate must be hideous, you are loathsome filth in the eyes of a loving God, you must really suck. Not only do you have to hide who you are from those around you, you have to hide from God too but you believe God can see what's in your heart.

I don't have words for how much that disturbs me, it's hard to imagine a better system for putting writhing maggots of hate and despair in a human brain.

Maybe they will care about your opinion.

Oh, I have plenty of criticisms of Christianity, I know it and Christians all too well.

anti gay comments on the Monday after the murders, as the graves were being dug he posted hateful crap on the internet. If you can't speak to that you have nothing to add here at all but evasion. You and hekate refuse to address those facts. 'Just like all the others' you say. But that's just not the truth.

... already said his father was a piece of work seeing he's trying to blame the owners of the Pulse for his sons actions.

You're looking to fight someone, I'm not looking to respond to this kinda crap any longer

Not going to get by with that anymore.

either.

Or so I hear.

/sarcasm

I don't understand why it's so hard to accept that - just like there are different versions of Christianity (liberal Episcopalian to ultra conservative Southern Baptists) - so, too, is there a wide range of interpretations in Islam.

I am making the case that Islam has much to do with terror attacks. This crap about "Islam is a peaceful religion" is just that - crap.

Just like Christianity has a wide divergence of interpretations of scripture, so, too, does Islam. And a whole swath of Muslims support Sharia law, which is anathema to any progressive society, imo.

And that's not Islamophobia; no, it's recognizing the truth about Islam - some Muslims have moved beyond Sharia law, but others have not.

... that are perverted by people who want an excuse to do horrible things

It is Islamophobia and bigoted to single out a religion which at is root is not what you say it is... period ... that's the very definition of bigoted.

is not any more bigoted than the term "right wing fundamentalist Christian."

I despise the radicals in both religions, but, thankfully, even the radical right winger christians have progressed several hundred years beyond the right wing radical Islamists. As a woman, that's plain to see.

How are you able to assert this so definitively?

Not being a bigot provides you with enough information to assert definitively that nothing about Islam caused the massacre?

President Obama recently said:

"We are still learning all the facts. This is an open investigation. We’ve reached no definitive judgment on the precise motivations of the killer."

It seems strange that you have been able to make such a definitive statement when the facts are still being learned and the investigation is still open. Not to mention the fact that, presumably, there is a lot of information about the case that the public does not have access to.

I don't see how anyone can make any sort of definitive statement about what factors led to this shooting, nor what not being a bigot has to do with anything.

I would have the same objection to someone stating definitively that "Islam caused this massacre" and I do to someone stating definitively that "nothing about Islam caused the massacre".

Isn't it possible that there were many factors that caused the massacre, one of which, potentially, could have been related in some way to Islamic fundamentalism?

Is the mere consideration of that possibility (i.e. that some fundamentalist Islamic propaganda played some role) bigoted and ignorant in your view?

... knowledge that ALL these religions are perverted by people who want to do horrible shit.

There's no need to single out any of them

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

In the past 5 years?
How many other US Mass murderers have done that?

Why is it so hard for people here to see the truth? If this was a right wing Christian Terrorist it wouldn't be this hard!

... mass murder.

that's what Islam commands. Several other countries, entire nations, subject LGBT to the lash, they whip human beings until they are near death and they do this in public. They say these are Islamic actions. The executioner holds the blade in one hand and a Koran in the other. The executioner is Muslim and says his actions are Islamic. The person being executed for being gay is also a Muslim, and that's the Muslim I will stand with. Which one will you stand with? It can't be both.

If you have trouble dealing with the actions of these nations, please tell those nations this fact. But do not even try to tell me I have to support capital punishment for LGBT or I am a bigot. That's not acceptable, it is a promotion of genocidal ideas.

... for responding without the name calling, sounds like you have some good points of position

I can only imagine an attack on a jam packed Disney, the numbers would have been in the 100s.

was for their Gay Days in early June every year.

This year, it was May 31-June 6.

https://www.gaydays.com/Featured/gay-days-orlando-2016.html

Who knows why he didn't choose Disney? He might have figured it would be too difficult to get the gun inside
the park.

via wrongful death lawsuits and other such claims.

CNN said this afternoon that, along with transferring ownership of that house, he changed his life insurance to benefit his wife, gave her access to his bank accounts, and spent unusual amounts of money on expensive jewelry for her, a short time before he launched sheer terror on The Pulse, striking down 102 innocent people.

If the guy was hoping (or planning) to die in his plot to murder LGBT people, why would he have been trying to buy body armor, kevlar protection? I'll bet they are looking into nearby surveillance video of that store where he allegedly tried to get supplies for his attack.

If they manage to verify that it was actually him who tried to buy the kevlar, I'd seriously doubt the guy wanted or expected to die.

Yup, he wanted to go on killing as many innocents as he could.

as much as they hated others. the grandfather is a bigoted old time scumbag.

fuck them all.

i would love to see them all locked up . especially the fucking wife who is likely in on it just as the one in san bernardino was.

... M$M has had to "rephrase" her wording from the LEO leaks so far.

... seriously on this seeing the M$M has had to rephrase their inuendos already.

Based off the text the night of doesn't sound like she knew shit...

"love you babe" doesn't sound like he was telling her he was shooting up shit

that's just a fact. Mateen is not being unfairly tarnished as a boogyman, he's one of the worst mass murderers of all time. But his victims were of the sort many on DU also hold in contempt so we get comments like yours.

Vile shit.

... regards to the affair but it doesn't look like she was aware that he was unstable enough to shoot up a place

That's obvious if you bother to read what I typed....

Right now BNW you're looking to fight people and not even reading peoples post, I'm not the only one either...

I wont put you on ignore but I'm sick of the needless reflexive vitriol so I don't want to respond to too many of your retorts

She drove him to Pulse. He called her while doing the shootings. 49 are dead. They were not killed by an imaginary 'boogyman' uponit7771.

Twisted enough it is impossible to attribute any religious value. Close to being a cult and uniquely American.

It would say something like "One hundred dollars and other good and valuable consideration."

So this wording on the deed wouldn't show whether he was paid its actual value or not.

have been part of his toxic stew of hate.

Maybe he thought his wife wanted a divorce. He wanted to divest himself of any assets and had an agreement with his sister and BIL that they would deed it back to him after the divorce.
Doesn't have to be anything nefarious.

international vacations. How was all of that paid for? Not from a security guard's salary.

Never been so regular.