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DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:42 AM Jul 2016

Cops shoot gun-owner for exercising 2nd Amendment rights

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/fox-news-guest-alton-sterling-has-to-take-responsibility-in-fatal-encounter-with-cops/

“This man has to take responsibility that he did have a gun, and he conducted himself in some manner to draw attention to a citizen who called the police,” Fuhrman told Fox News host Megyn Kelly. “And after that, the one officer, if this is the way it went down, one officer shot, one officer didn’t. When you hear, ‘He’s got a gun,’ if the other officer now uses deadly force, it’s because he believes that that gun is in the hand or is attempting to be put in the hand of the suspect.”

Fuhrman did not mention that Louisiana state laws allow for firearms to be carried by adults without a permit. Also, newly-released footage shows that Sterling’s gun was in his pocket — not in his hand — at the time of his encounter, which has sparked protests and calls for the arrests of Officers Howie Lake and Blane Salamoni.



---------------

Don't worry. The NRA will jump to this dead black gun-owner's defence any second now.
44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Cops shoot gun-owner for exercising 2nd Amendment rights (Original Post) DetlefK Jul 2016 OP
No confusion. "He's got a gun ..." Beakybird Jul 2016 #1
CCW laws are only safeinOhio Jul 2016 #2
I'll remind the black owner of Central Texas Gun Works. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #18
How is he different than the safeinOhio Jul 2016 #20
Your question is better addressed to the shop owner... Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #24
cops are grilled to fear black men, therefore will shoot them for less reason AntiBank Jul 2016 #23
I agree, and have seen this since I was a kid. Yet millions of blacks lawfully carry... Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #26
I think they don't even need a reason why they are carrying IF they are doing so in a lawful manner AntiBank Jul 2016 #28
Your suggestions concerning the WOD are right on. This is programmatic Anti-Black policy... Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #30
And that's another reason they shouldn't be legal scscholar Jul 2016 #29
Dem there guns 'is fuh white folks' malaise Jul 2016 #3
Felons dont have second amendment rights. Travis_0004 Jul 2016 #4
Although that's true... Orrex Jul 2016 #5
I'm sure they enumerated all the offenses he had convictions for baldguy Jul 2016 #6
i just think the article is misleading Travis_0004 Jul 2016 #12
And I think you're being disingenuous, at best. baldguy Jul 2016 #13
Which is why he deserved to die? Blue_Tires Jul 2016 #8
Are the cops mind readers? gollygee Jul 2016 #9
So, he had a big flashing "F" for felon above his head Bettie Jul 2016 #11
They may very well have known who he was. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2016 #27
Still not a death penalty offense Bettie Jul 2016 #36
I wholeheartedly agree. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2016 #37
In Lousiana they do Nevernose Jul 2016 #14
The first modern "gun control" legislation was because racists were scared of the Black Panthers. Odin2005 Jul 2016 #7
Being black is the exception to having rights. And white cops enforce that. n/t librechik Jul 2016 #10
Crickets from the NRA. Didn't you know, the Second Amendment only counts if your white! n/t backscatter712 Jul 2016 #15
In your own words, what do you think the NRA should say about this? friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #16
If they weren't so hypocritical, they'd be defending the family of the gentleman who was shot... backscatter712 Jul 2016 #31
Historically the NRA is slow to respond to these things regardless of race aikoaiko Jul 2016 #42
It appears he was prohibited from possessing a firearm. Why should the NRA comment? Marengo Jul 2016 #17
I mixed this case up with the other police shooting... backscatter712 Jul 2016 #32
With so many tragedies of this type easy to do, I did in another thread as well. Marengo Jul 2016 #34
Malcolm X would disagree: "[the Second] provides you and me the right to own a rifle or a shotgun." Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #21
Let's just say the NRA would be screaming right now if... backscatter712 Jul 2016 #33
Maybe. I don't know. I'm not a member. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #35
This needs correction: The shooting victim was in illegal possession of a gun. Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #19
And the cops knew that how??? DetlefK Jul 2016 #38
My comments go to your incorrect headline. You should correct it. nt Eleanors38 Jul 2016 #39
As far as they were aware, he WAS exercising his 2nd Amendment rights. DetlefK Jul 2016 #40
http://imgur.com/gKZbLUk Capt. Obvious Jul 2016 #22
Gun rights are for everyone. romanic Jul 2016 #25
MARK Fuhrman????? Night Watchman Jul 2016 #41
Mark Fuhrman is who Fox News chose as their expert on law enforcement? oberliner Jul 2016 #43
Its a nod-nod, wink-wink to the racist cohort in their KingCharlemagne Jul 2016 #44

Beakybird

(3,333 posts)
1. No confusion. "He's got a gun ..."
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 04:00 AM
Jul 2016

Is to cover their tracks when they shot him.
I would surmise that the police purposely removed their body cams. However, they knew that there was audio from these same body cams. So they wanted to create audio evidence that the killing was justified.

safeinOhio

(32,688 posts)
20. How is he different than the
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:20 PM
Jul 2016

young Black Man that was legally carrying and was killed in cold blood by the cop. He could just as easily been him. The young man had a legal permit and did everything the cop asked and was gunned down. Don't forget to remind the owner of those facts.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
24. Your question is better addressed to the shop owner...
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 05:32 PM
Jul 2016

I am as white as the sand on a Fla pan handle beach, and I had to face an AR 15, aimed by a local cop who was told by some cell phone punk that I had waved a gun at him. Punks will be punks, and some cops will over react, and some are racist to the point where they will exercise the unwritten right by LEO: When performing in the line of duty they have a License to kill, and the police unions in place to back up virtually ANY fuck up by police. I don't like it. I don't know anyone who likes it. But I am NOT going to tell anyone not to arm if they feel threatened, or use incidents to pronounce from on-high that one group of people can have guns safely, but the other groups best not arm up. That is for the groups and individuals to decide.

And they DO decide.

It is THEIR choice.

 

AntiBank

(1,339 posts)
23. cops are grilled to fear black men, therefore will shoot them for less reason
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:43 PM
Jul 2016

plus many are just racists

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
26. I agree, and have seen this since I was a kid. Yet millions of blacks lawfully carry...
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 05:49 PM
Jul 2016

Surely, they have considered the dangers of doing so around police. So why do they carry? I doubt it is for SD against police, but SD for other reasons. In many areas of the country, black communities have violent crime rates out of proportion to the rest of the country. Would I be wrong in concluding a CCW black citizen is arming for self-defense mainly in his own community?

Lawful-carrying black citizens, in my obervation, are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. On the one hand, a police force with a hair-trigger when it comes to encounters with blacks; on the other, a community where disproportionate numbers engage in a disproportionate amount of violent crime. (This is a subject which is virtually taboo here, and ends in charges of racism, or NRA gun-licking, or whatever the slur o' the day is.)

Perhaps there is a better or at least different way for legally armed blacks to reveal such and not get killed. I don't know. I'm all ears. I don't know what to do about the cops, how many ways have been tried?

 

AntiBank

(1,339 posts)
28. I think they don't even need a reason why they are carrying IF they are doing so in a lawful manner
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 06:07 PM
Jul 2016

I am sure almost all who legally carry do so for SD, as like you said, many of them live in violent areas.

The cop in this case is a murderer in cold blood, if the facts of the case hold up. We need to start locking up murderous coppers for life with no parole, as the violation of the the law itself by a DEFENDER of the law is FAR more serious than an average citizen who breaks the law. With grave responsibility comes grave consequences if you betray that trust.

The police force in the USA as a whole has been paramiltitarised since the 1970's, and especial from the mid-late 1990's until now. Even if 10% are "bad cops" (I think it is far higher) thats is a recipe for all the "murder-by-cop" actions that are ripping the social fabric of the country apart.

If I was black, I would absolutely look at most cops as not only my enemy, but indeed, my possible executioner. A huge start is to cut off ALL military interlocks in terms of equipment and funding to state and local cops. I also advocate for the comprehensive legalisation and then regulation and taxation of all drugs. That would vastly reduce profit motive for narcotrafficking and its inherent murderous aspects. It would also allow us to draw down the number of cops and also choke off the fucking for-profit prison system that utterly thrives on the drug war.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
30. Your suggestions concerning the WOD are right on. This is programmatic Anti-Black policy...
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 06:34 PM
Jul 2016

as the Nixon administration's reps have admitted. Unfortunately, both parties supported it, as did most of the leadership of the black community. Theodore Bilbo could not have wet dreamed a better way of jailing vast numbers of blacks. And it works, as the laws permanently stain the records of Anyone with a drug conviction and steers them back into a life of crime or early death. The WOD is one of the greatest, most destructive, yet effective (as designed) socio-political events in the country's history.

Paramilitarization is a solution waiting for a problem, and that problem is the rapid, forceful suppression of Any kind of disruption, be it a riot or most worrisome (to the elite) organized civil disobedience. I think the power elite full well knows it is held in profound disdain, and will act accordingly. I think de-militarizing civilian police may have some symbolic effect on how police do their work, but the real purpose is to beef up local LEOs as a first-line defense against civil insurrection. Even here, I think the effect will be limited, as LEOs are singularly ineffective in this role.

 

scscholar

(2,902 posts)
29. And that's another reason they shouldn't be legal
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 06:25 PM
Jul 2016

They're applied based upon race which is illegal, but of course certain racist states still give the privilege of CCW which is racist. They're racist so they be racist.

Orrex

(63,215 posts)
5. Although that's true...
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 07:47 AM
Jul 2016

it seems unlikely that the cops executed him because he was ineligible to own a firearm.


I agree that the OP's subject line is a poor fit in this case, though.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
6. I'm sure they enumerated all the offenses he had convictions for
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 08:11 AM
Jul 2016

Before they subdued him & shot him in the back 12 times - then "found" a gun.

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
12. i just think the article is misleading
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 12:32 PM
Jul 2016

The cops likely had no clue he was a felon. The author of the article likely did know, and the article is misleading.

Bettie

(16,110 posts)
11. So, he had a big flashing "F" for felon above his head
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 09:41 AM
Jul 2016

that only cops can see? They had no idea of who he was, so their execution of this man had zero to do with his legal status at all.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
27. They may very well have known who he was.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 05:59 PM
Jul 2016

Cops often know the identities of people on their beat who have lengthy criminal records. I hope it comes out in the investigation whether or not this was the case. Not, mind you, that I think it will exonerate the officers if it is shown they knew Sterling. I think there were far, far better options for them to take him into custody than to shoot him dead.

But as far as the subject of this thread goes, Sterling had indeed previously forfeited his 2nd Amendment rights by way of his multiple felony convictions.

Bettie

(16,110 posts)
36. Still not a death penalty offense
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 08:22 PM
Jul 2016

And the guy was not a threat to either of those cops when they decided to murder him.

And it was a decision on their part. But, who can blame them, right? Cops have learned that they can kill with impunity as long as the victim is not white and well-connected. They might get a paid vacation out of it, but in the end, they'll be walking around free and probably still cops while the man they chose to kill is dead and buried.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
37. I wholeheartedly agree.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 09:01 PM
Jul 2016

Nothing this guy did (and let's be honest: he did more than his share of very bad stuff) remotely justifies his summary execution. He was in no position to offer a real threat to those officers, even if he was trying to get to his gun. They had every opportunity to prevent that with non-lethal means.

You are 100% on-target in pointing out that there is a grossly insufficient level of accountability for police actions in these situations. The system as it stands is geared to exonerate them in the vast majority of cases. THey know they have a license to kill...and some of them act accordingly.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
14. In Lousiana they do
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 12:48 PM
Jul 2016

At least after a few years.

(I have no idea if that's the case in this situation, but either way, it's besides the point. The cops had no idea at the time.)

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
7. The first modern "gun control" legislation was because racists were scared of the Black Panthers.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 08:16 AM
Jul 2016

There is a long and disgusting history of demonizing all armed POC as dangerous criminals or terrorists and taking away the right of POC to protect themselves in the name of "public safety".

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
31. If they weren't so hypocritical, they'd be defending the family of the gentleman who was shot...
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 06:46 PM
Jul 2016

...after telling the officer that he had a concealed-carry permit.

You know the NRA would be screaming right now if he was white.

Though don't look at me - I'm not a fan of the NRA, or of the mass-proliferation of weapons in our country.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
21. Malcolm X would disagree: "[the Second] provides you and me the right to own a rifle or a shotgun."
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:37 PM
Jul 2016

On crickets, what is your response to the question: Should black people, or Muslims, or LGBTQ people, or women, or other minorities have the right to keep and bear arms as the majority population now exercises?

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
33. Let's just say the NRA would be screaming right now if...
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 06:48 PM
Jul 2016

...the person who was shot with the concealed-carry permit was white.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
19. This needs correction: The shooting victim was in illegal possession of a gun.
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 03:15 PM
Jul 2016

I am glad I had an opportunity to clear up that major misconception.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
43. Mark Fuhrman is who Fox News chose as their expert on law enforcement?
Sat Jul 9, 2016, 09:20 AM
Jul 2016

Do they just assume that their viewers don't know who he is?

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
44. Its a nod-nod, wink-wink to the racist cohort in their
Sat Jul 9, 2016, 09:30 AM
Jul 2016

viewership or audience. The racists will secretly feel validated while the non-racists, save for a few of us cognoscenti, will remain clueless.

Clever marmeti g that, albeit in the service of evil.

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