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63splitwindow

(2,657 posts)
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 01:30 AM Jul 2016

Dallas police chief says armed civilians in Texas 'increasingly challenging'

" The Dallas police chief stepped into America's fierce gun rights debate on Monday when he said Texas state laws allowing civilians to carry firearms openly, as some did during a protest where five officers were killed, presented a growing law enforcement challenge/
...
...
"It is increasingly challenging when people have AR-15s (a type of rifle) slung over, and shootings occur in a crowd. And they begin running, and we don’t know if they are a shooter or not," Brown said. "We don’t know who the 'good guy' versus who the 'bad guy' is, if everybody starts shooting."

Seeing multiple people carrying rifles led police initially to believe they were under attack by multiple shooters.

...
..."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-police-protests-idUSKCN0ZQ0V8

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Dallas police chief says armed civilians in Texas 'increasingly challenging' (Original Post) 63splitwindow Jul 2016 OP
Yep RobertEarl Jul 2016 #1
Your avatar is an ironic presence in a thread concerning gun violence. nt 63splitwindow Jul 2016 #2
He waged a civil war, didn't he RobertEarl Jul 2016 #4
I was actually referring to the bullet he took to the back of his head. nt 63splitwindow Jul 2016 #5
So RobertEarl Jul 2016 #7
So that is why "Your avatar is an ironic presence in a thread concerning gun violence." 63splitwindow Jul 2016 #8
They have a right to bear arms RobertEarl Jul 2016 #9
And even more fundamentally... 63splitwindow Jul 2016 #10
Boom...mic drop! Surya Gayatri Jul 2016 #13
And there's the distraught bumper-sticker masquerading as wit we've come to expect. LanternWaste Jul 2016 #22
As several people -- apparently gun owners -- have pointed out here ... eppur_se_muova Jul 2016 #3
Civilians with rifles in Dallas has a history... 63splitwindow Jul 2016 #6
Really? SheilaT Jul 2016 #11
"Seeing multiple people carrying rifles led police initially to believe..." Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2016 #12
Until they can figure out a way to tell a good guy with a gun from a bad guy with a gun, Vinca Jul 2016 #14
Some people (*cough* Republicans *cough*) sarae Jul 2016 #31
Wait, what? The good guys with rifles ran? Baitball Blogger Jul 2016 #15
And whose premise is that? Did the people carrying legally say this? friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #20
I think no one told the "good guys" what was expected of them, and it seems obvious that is not why jmg257 Jul 2016 #21
Fuck the NRA and its handmaidens in Congress n/t malaise Jul 2016 #16
"We don’t know who the 'good guy' versus who the 'bad guy' is, if everybody starts shooting." beevul Jul 2016 #17
? 63splitwindow Jul 2016 #18
The point of the "good guy" carrying is to protect themselves, no act as vigilantes friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #19
Every man for themself? 63splitwindow Jul 2016 #23
Yep. To do otherwise is vigilantism unless , and *only* unless, a LEO asks for help friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #24
I could have been more precise with my question... 63splitwindow Jul 2016 #25
You're asking the wrong person, as I believe open carry like that is generally a bad idea friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #26
You say it is a right, which is agreed upon in my question... 63splitwindow Jul 2016 #27
Yes, it does, *if* legal where it is done. I've said the same for years: friendly_iconoclast Jul 2016 #28
We agree to disagree. 63splitwindow Jul 2016 #29
Why did he wait to say that now? rockfordfile Jul 2016 #30
I wonder exactly what would have happened sarae Jul 2016 #32
 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
4. He waged a civil war, didn't he
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 01:56 AM
Jul 2016

Lots of gun violence then. More then, than now, in fact.

Too bad he didn't get ahead of them in the south and take them out before they started shooting. Eh?

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
7. So
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 02:10 AM
Jul 2016

Everyone back then had open carry. That's part of how the civil war started. Looks like GMI is leading us that way again.

 

63splitwindow

(2,657 posts)
8. So that is why "Your avatar is an ironic presence in a thread concerning gun violence."
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 02:16 AM
Jul 2016

It was just an observation. Yes, open carry is as crazy as hell and is being pushed by the stupid fuckers who want to not only halt societal progress but actually go backwards.

 

63splitwindow

(2,657 posts)
10. And even more fundamentally...
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 02:32 AM
Jul 2016

"We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

We seem to have an ever increasing conflict between rights.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
22. And there's the distraught bumper-sticker masquerading as wit we've come to expect.
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 02:59 PM
Jul 2016

"Texas: Love it or leave it!"

And there's the distraught bumper-sticker masquerading as wit we've come to expect. Plumbing the shallow depths of t-shirt wisdom and fortune-cookie acumen makes a cowboy thirsty, I'd reckon.

eppur_se_muova

(36,271 posts)
3. As several people -- apparently gun owners -- have pointed out here ...
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 01:55 AM
Jul 2016

The guy testing his "Second Amendment Rights" to destruction is the first one the police are going to consider it necessary to hold a weapon on, which will make him the one most likely to be shot.

Idiots with guns create dangerous situations. Adding more idiots with guns only makes them more dangerous.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
11. Really?
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 03:46 AM
Jul 2016

I thought more guns made us more safe.

Guess someone was wrong about that idea.

I mean, really, since this country is pretty much the most armed population out there, we should be the very safest country, yes? What? We're not??? Huh. Can't begin to imagine why.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)
12. "Seeing multiple people carrying rifles led police initially to believe..."
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 07:39 AM
Jul 2016

And yet, the reason so many people were carrying was because those people were part of a protest expressing the view that the police had lost the confidence of the people to be the sole keepers of lethal force.

Vinca

(50,279 posts)
14. Until they can figure out a way to tell a good guy with a gun from a bad guy with a gun,
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 07:57 AM
Jul 2016

open carry shouldn't be a "thing." The smartest thing to do when you're out shopping and run into one of these "he-men" is to leave the store. Make sure to tell the manager at a later time why you did.

sarae

(3,284 posts)
31. Some people (*cough* Republicans *cough*)
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 04:55 PM
Jul 2016

think they can tell a good guy with a gun vs a bad guy with a gun...but they're usually basing this decision on skin color.

Baitball Blogger

(46,743 posts)
15. Wait, what? The good guys with rifles ran?
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 08:37 AM
Jul 2016

The whole premise behind the support for the legal carry crowd was that these good guys with rifles would stand and shoot the bad guys with rifles.

What went wrong?

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
21. I think no one told the "good guys" what was expected of them, and it seems obvious that is not why
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 02:57 PM
Jul 2016

they were there.

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
17. "We don’t know who the 'good guy' versus who the 'bad guy' is, if everybody starts shooting."
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 01:11 PM
Jul 2016
"We don’t know who the 'good guy' versus who the 'bad guy' is, if everybody starts shooting."


Which never happens.
 

63splitwindow

(2,657 posts)
18. ?
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 02:34 PM
Jul 2016

What's the point of the "good guy" carrying if they aren't shooting at the "bad guy" who is shooting and killing people?

 

63splitwindow

(2,657 posts)
23. Every man for themself?
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 03:18 PM
Jul 2016

OK, I understand that. Does it apply to the marcher with the AR15 slung over his shouder the same way it does to someone with a hand gun strapped on openly? concealed? And I ask this in the context of the exact situation which existed here, ie. the active shooter picking off as many officers as he could with his rifle.

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
24. Yep. To do otherwise is vigilantism unless , and *only* unless, a LEO asks for help
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 03:29 PM
Jul 2016

The carriers in Dallas did the right thing by leaving the scene as fast as possible.

 

63splitwindow

(2,657 posts)
25. I could have been more precise with my question...
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 03:38 PM
Jul 2016

Taking as a given that everyone should have the right to "bear arms" for self protection, should that right extend to the marcher slinging an AR15 over his shoulder and/or strapping on a hand gun in plain view and/or concealed and participating in a public event where controversy was inherent and tensions running high?

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
26. You're asking the wrong person, as I believe open carry like that is generally a bad idea
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 03:41 PM
Jul 2016

That said, it is a right- a mostly counterproductive one, IMO- but still a right.

 

63splitwindow

(2,657 posts)
27. You say it is a right, which is agreed upon in my question...
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 03:45 PM
Jul 2016

my question is whether said right extends to AR15 slung over shoulder in these circumstances. Do you have an opinion on that question?

 

friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
28. Yes, it does, *if* legal where it is done. I've said the same for years:
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 03:54 PM
Jul 2016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x471243

So what? There's no 'niceness' clause in the Constitution. Even fools like the teabggers have rights

You might want to search the life of one Ernesto Arturo Miranda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernesto_Arturo_Miranda

Ya know, this is not the first time I've had to remind you lot of the universality of rights:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=181522#182329


friendly_iconoclast (1000+ posts) Sat Aug-02-08 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #129
144. Guess what? Civil rights aren't just for "our sort of people"

Edited on Sat Aug-02-08 02:04 AM by friendly_iconoclast
There is a very long history in American jurisprudence of people defending the civil rights of
people they wouldn't have over for dinner. Or who wouldn't have *them* over for dinner.

From John Adams (accused British soldiers in the Boston Massacre), to
the ACLU (Illinois Nazis vs. the city of Skokie), to Sabin Willett (prisoners at Guantanamo).

I wouldn't defend Razzano as a person. I would, however, defend his rights no matter how odious his ideologies.

See: Goose and gander, sauce for.

I'd never OC at a demo, and I'd advise against anyone doing so at an OWS event.
You might have the right to do it, but that does not mean that you *should* do it. Capisce?

 

63splitwindow

(2,657 posts)
29. We agree to disagree.
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 03:59 PM
Jul 2016

Many Constitutional rights never have been, and never will be, all or nothing propositions and that applies to the First Amendment in several regards. Why should it be different with the Second Amendment?

sarae

(3,284 posts)
32. I wonder exactly what would have happened
Tue Jul 12, 2016, 04:57 PM
Jul 2016

if one of those armed civilians had opened fire, in an effort to "catch" the bad guy...how many more people would have died?

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