Definitions are for categorization, they don't have to follow common sense.

-- Mal

A planet must have cleared its orbit. Pluto's orbit is more like a Kupier(sp?) Belt object anyway.

There have been suggestions that there may be an actual, larger planet beyond Pluto, but until it's seen and we are able to identify its orbit to know if it's cleared it, we still won't know.

Three of them are Eris, Makemake, and Haumea.

Eris, as it turns out, is larger than Pluto. There are hundreds of these objects out in the Kuiper Belt, which are now classified as dwarf planets.

Better to have these objects in their own classification, otherwise the class of objects we call planets will be a bit crowded...

/digression

Well, lots of trees. lol

Since the airstrip is pretty much its entire length. We are talking about what, 100 acres? There are plenty of chunks bigger than that in the oceans. A 200 mile exclusion limit around something that isn't even close to 1 mile long and far less wide? Doesn't seem all that sensible.

Do you really think we all thought it was a 100 mile long airstrip? lol

Show me in the UNCLOS treaty where it states the minimum size of an island entitled to an economic exclusion zone.
Bet you can't.

But ok, I believe the island is about a mile long and approximately a quarter mile wide. It's certainly not a rock by any reasonable definition of the word.

Look at the PICTURE, Taiping Island is not a rock. Its about a mile long by about a quarter mile wide!

The ruling calling this obvious island a "rock" is simply absurd.

Thanks for helping me make my point about how silly declaring Taiping Island a "rock" was. That declaration undermined the credibility of the tribunal and gives China the excuse to declare that THE FIX WAS IN.

A fairer ruling should have been made, its a missed opportunity to settle the dispute peacefully.

Miquelon is also considered to be too small to be an island, thus denying France any claim of an economic exclusion zone on the coasts of Maine and Canada.

Miquelon is several times the size and has a population of 5,000 people.

Miquelon is right off shore of Newfoundland and in such a position to be enveloped by Canadian territorial claims. But it DOES have its own economic exclusion zone, it's just narrow and elongated due to nearby Canada.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Saint-Pierre_and_Miquelon_EEZ_map-fr.svg

I was wrongly told they didn't have one and fell entirely within those of Canada.

I had to check myself. At first I thought they might have signed away such rights in a treaty.

Miquelon does have an economic exclusion zone and it's 200 miles long too, just very narrow due to adjacent Canadian claims

I am just, out of personal curiosity, looking for one that does not.

I particularly like the North Sea oil rig monarchies.

And if they are claiming it, they are claiming the sea around it, why not?

Cough artificial islands cough. Lol

The thing is, if one allows such a "rock" to be an "island" the present disputes over 200 mile exclusion zones are going to get even more bizarre, because there are a heck of a lot of such "islands" all over the planet.

The claims and counter-claims in the S. China Sea are already so in conflict as to be unresolvable, and just denying them all seems more likely to lead to a political settlement than picking one side or another as the "winner".

Just curious, would you have any examples of roughly mile long islands NOT being in or having an 200 mile economic exclusion zone?

I don't want to come across as argumentative on this point, I really would just like to know of some examples. That information seems very germane to the point at hand and certainly worth serious consideration.

Thanks.

And lots of submerged volcanoes.

Most of the interesting ones are already taken. S. China Sea is in dispute because it does not obviously belong to anybody and there are lots of parties with a claim. And a mile is smaller than is usual to make such a claim, something like the Falklands or Jan Mayen Land is more like it, with permanent non-employee residents. And Diego Garcia, which is such a renovated atoll formerly populated by natives.

I think fishing rights have a lot to do with this dispute too, they are fishing the place out and bickering over the remnants.

I take your point, and I will look for some explicit examples if which islands have or extend economic exclusion zones. I believe many of the general cases you cited are in such zones already, but I want to be clearer on whether or not they are also a basis for that zone. That's why I am looking for actual examples to check.

Thanks for the reply

Many places, this sort of thing is already resolved by "mutual consent", but in the post-colonial spaces lots of these little disputes continue, and when there are real resource contentions over them they can heat up. The Falklands War is an example.

The outrage over Russia's seizure of Crimea has much to do with such questions too, who gets the seabed hydrocarbons in the Black Sea, eh? Crimea has one heck of a large exclusion zone for its size. Lots of coastline.

I think this decision may work out for the best, Duterte appears to want to work things out with Beijing, and this will give him leverage, and if they work things out that will set a good example for the rest. And I would think China would view that in a positive way once they think about it.

.........is akin to Illinois claiming all of Lake Michigan.

China claiming the entire South China Sea is absurd. But the tribunal calling Taiping Island a "rock" seems to be lurching towards the absurd too. The tribunal should have issued a more sane ruling so the dispute could be settled peacefully.

Right now, in light of the tribunal saying there are NO islands in the Spratly Islands, China is just going to ignore the decision, and god knows what that will lead to next.

PART VIII REGIME OF ISLANDS
Article 121 Regime of islands

1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water,
which is above water at high tide.

2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the
contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an
island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention
applicable to other land territory.

3. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of
their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.

According to the U.N. Convention on the Law of the Sea, an island has 12 nautical miles of territorial waters, 24 nautical units of contiguous miles, and has 200 nautical miles of Exclusive Economic Zone and continental shelf. However, a rock only has 12 nautical miles of territorial waters and cannot have a continental shelf.

But being a rock does not stop you from being an island!

Trees can grow in the cracks of rocks. Just because it has trees doesn't mean it is not a rock.

And that's what you think is happening here?

Let's look at that picture of Taiping Island again :



Trees growing in the cracks of rocks?!? -rolls eyes-

But ok, that's one for the "It's a Rock!" column.

Thank you for replying

Here is another picture of a tree growing in a rock

http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-zion-national-park-utah-tree-growing-in-rocks-in-canyon-wall-15293100.html

PART VIII REGIME OF ISLANDS <----Which China signed btw
Article 121 Regime of islands

1. An island is a naturally formed area of land, surrounded by water,
which is above water at high tide.

2. Except as provided for in paragraph 3, the territorial sea, the
contiguous zone, the exclusive economic zone and the continental shelf of an
island are determined in accordance with the provisions of this Convention
applicable to other land territory.

3. Rocks which cannot sustain human habitation or economic life of
their own shall have no exclusive economic zone or continental shelf.

Seems habitable to me. I bet I could live there. Typhoons will be rough though. lol

Seriously though, does the UNCLOS state a number that must be of people that must be sustained? No it does not, its very very vague.

And THAT is part of the problem. The ruling has said that Taiping Island, long recognized as an island, is now NOT an island but is a "rock" based on that vague paragraph.

Honestly, the island CAN sustain human habitation, the only argument would be over how much.

China has been accusing the international tribunal of being biased, and now this ruling that Taiping Island is suddenly a "rock" has given them extra ammunition to make that case.

You will see that Taiping island is ~200 miles from the Philippines island Palawan and ~300 miles from Vietnam, wedged right between them. It's not possible to wedge a 200-mile zone in there without taking away parts of their economic zones from Philippines and Vietnam.

It's not a matter of adjusting a 200 mile zone due to neighboring economic exclusion zones. The tribunal declared Taiping Island a rock and took away the claimed 200 mile exclusion zone entirely.

And yes, evonomic exclusion zones do get downsized due to neighboring zones. That is what I thought the tribunal was going to do. But of course they did not.

the Tribunal apparently decided that Taiping Island cannot do so.

Grow some sweet potatoes, raise a few pigs, living the vita del loca in the Spratly Islands!

Honestly, how much human habitation? Seriously. Is there a number mentioned in the UNCLOS treaty? I don't believe there is, its all so vague and THAT is the problem.

Everyone has been calling Taiping Island, well, and island up until this ruling. THAT is what's making China say the FIX WAS IN.
Personally, I hoped for a more nuanced ruling that rejected China's ludicrous claims but acknowledged their legitimate ones, like Taiping Island. Oh, well. So it goes. What's next? War?

The problem with not having explicit standards in the treaty is that it leaves open to the accusation of bias.

China is doing that in this case, declaring that the tribunal was biased against it (and had no jurisdiction, but that's another matter) and that it is absurd to deny that Taiping Island , which has long been recognized as being a naturally occurring island of significant size, is now suddenly a "rock".

Problem solved