General Discussion

Maven

(10,533 posts) Sat Jul 16, 2016, 03:26 PM Jul 2016

Some speculation that Erdogan was behind the attempted coup in Turkey

Some interesting comments on the NYT suggesting that this attempted coup was in fact a bit of theatrics by Erdogan to help him seize more power and eliminate his enemies. I have to say, the way it was conducted (ineptly) and the way it was defeated (literally overnight), as well as the actions Erdogan has taken since (jailing thousands of judges for instance, and demanding the arrest/extradition of his main ideological challenger) make me suspicious. Thoughts?

Comments from the NYT:

Matt Von Ahmad Silverstein Chong Mill Valley, CA 3 hours ago

And the Oscar for the best director (dictator?) goes to Erdogan. This has to be the first coup in the modern era where they didn't take over the TV and media, did not secure the airports, allowed the president to land at a major airport and immediately go to on national TV. In a real coup the plane would have not have been allowed to enter the country, or would have been ambushed at landing, if not shot down.

A few officers were nicely set up and Erdogan gets to cleanse the military -the only institution into which he did not have full reach- of his opponents.

Eddie Houston 3 hours ago

The so called "attempted coup" seems very suspicious. The coup makers didn't arrest the president or prime minister, didn't shut down the means of communication such as social media, TV stations, cell phones,... and didn't have a leader. It basically lacked the basics of every classic coup that has occurred in the past.
Right after the coup was "defeated", Erdovan dismissed over 2700 judges including 10 Supreme Court judges. What did the judges have to do with the coup and how did he so quickly come to that conclusion?
Sounds more like a coup organized by Erdovan against the remaining secular members of the government.

David Bone Henderson, NV 3 hours ago

This was instigated by Erdogan or at least pushed forward.

Now like many of the dictators before him he has not only defeated the "coup" he has eliminated his opposition in the judiciary.

He now has a clear path to change their constitution and remain in power forever.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/17/world/europe/turkey-attempted-coup-erdogan.html

16 replies

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Highlight:

Some speculation that Erdogan was behind the attempted coup in Turkey (Original Post) Maven Jul 2016 OP

Saddam did the same thing too to consolidate his power ansible Jul 2016 #1

Never tried to over throw a government turbinetree Jul 2016 #2

Right, and why is his first move to arrest 3000 judges, including members of the highest court? nt Maven Jul 2016 #4

This is not good, by any of the stretch of the imagination. turbinetree Jul 2016 #6

Yeah sure! L. Coyote Jul 2016 #3

I guess all these people must be tinfoil hat nutters? Maven Jul 2016 #5

Or they are just wrong. Sometimes a coup is a coup. Oh wait, all the time. L. Coyote Jul 2016 #7

I don't usually jump to tinfoil conclusions, but this event has all the signs JCMach1 Jul 2016 #8

Same. Maven Jul 2016 #9

exactly, not only that Erdogan's family members directly profited from ISIS' criminal enterprises JCMach1 Jul 2016 #10

night of the long knives n/t KatyMan Jul 2016 #11

Or maybe this is just good luck for Erdogan Nevernose Jul 2016 #12

What really pisses me off is that Erdogan is trying to strong arm us now. modem77 Jul 2016 #13

I hope we didn't miss the window to get rid of him. LettuceSea Jul 2016 #14

I don't know if he is "behind" it... Bradical79 Jul 2016 #15

I'm thinking LIHOP. joshcryer Jul 2016 #16

ansible

(1,718 posts)

1. Saddam did the same thing too to consolidate his power

Reply to Maven (Original post)

Sat Jul 16, 2016, 03:32 PM

Jul 2016

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba%27athist_Iraq#Al-Bakr.27s_rule_and_Saddam.27s_rise_to_power_.281968.E2.80.931979.29

Very easy way to root out traitors, anyone who turned against him during the coup is now fucked

turbinetree

(24,703 posts)

2. Never tried to over throw a government

Reply to Maven (Original post)

Sat Jul 16, 2016, 03:38 PM

Jul 2016

but it makes sense, if you want to be successful, you usually go to the media and control the information, and you arrest those that are doing what they are doing, like in this case, Erdogan, who has been on a terror against those that speak out against him, in fact he wants some of those in jail executed, like some journalist

Maven

(10,533 posts)

4. Right, and why is his first move to arrest 3000 judges, including members of the highest court? nt

Reply to turbinetree (Reply #2)

Sat Jul 16, 2016, 03:48 PM

Jul 2016

turbinetree

(24,703 posts)

6. This is not good, by any of the stretch of the imagination.

Reply to Maven (Reply #4)

Sat Jul 16, 2016, 03:55 PM

Jul 2016

This is a NATO ally, a really big ally.
And to "stage" a coup in my opinion shows a lot of instability in a leader, because, paranoia will destroy you and in the process make everyone else in that situation a tool -------------------this is not good

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)

3. Yeah sure!

Reply to Maven (Original post)

Sat Jul 16, 2016, 03:41 PM

Jul 2016

Maven

(10,533 posts)

5. I guess all these people must be tinfoil hat nutters?

Reply to L. Coyote (Reply #3)

Sat Jul 16, 2016, 03:53 PM

Jul 2016

Geoff Bellingham WA 2 hours ago

The footnote that 2745 judges have been dismissed is chilling. How could they be selected in such a short time? The "attempt" was beyond weak and foolhardy, it looks doomed from the start and the consequences suicidal. Begun when Erdogan was out of the country yet he returns bravely while it is supposedly unresolved. As others note, not seizing all media outlets and arresting the top politicians? This has the looks of a staged intelligence operation, to justify repressive steps as a counter to recent terror plots. The pictures of the soldiers out in Instanbul doing so little are actually somewhat ludicrous. And the loyalists citizens opposing them don't look threatened or scared in the least. Theatre.

DlphcOracl Chicago, Illinois 2 hours ago

Non one is fooled by this phony staged coup attempt. Recip Erdogan has initiated and organized this phony coup attempt to hasten the process of converting Turkey from a secular state with a prosperous middle class into an Islamo-fascist state in which traditional democratic rights are trampled upon and suspended. This "coup" simply gives Erdogan a convenient excuse to hasten the process by purging his rivals and secular counterbalance in the military, opening the path to a full blown Islamic fundamentalist state. Papa Joe Stalin would be proud of Erdogan's work.

Hans Rupp Germany 2 hours ago

The real coup d'etat is happening right now. Erdogan is gettig rid of the last critical elements in the judiciary system. 3000 justices sacked, 45 members of the highest appeals court arrested (source: German TV).
Surely these people cannot have been involved in the military coup. Erdogan exploits this opportunity to further his plans to establish a sultanate.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)

7. Or they are just wrong. Sometimes a coup is a coup. Oh wait, all the time.

Reply to Maven (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 16, 2016, 03:58 PM

Jul 2016

Sometimes they fail.

JCMach1

(27,559 posts)

8. I don't usually jump to tinfoil conclusions, but this event has all the signs

Reply to Maven (Original post)

Sat Jul 16, 2016, 04:01 PM

Jul 2016

of a False Flag Coup designed to let Erdogan finish off all opposition.

Maven

(10,533 posts)

9. Same.

Reply to JCMach1 (Reply #8)

Sat Jul 16, 2016, 04:32 PM

Jul 2016

I'm not typically prone to this sort of speculation, but there are too many elements that fit neatly within that narrative. Meanwhile, Erdogan has returned a conquering hero and immediately started the purge. I expect that in the coming months Turkey will shed any remaining trappings of being a secular democratic state. We can probably expect little to no cooperation from them in fighting ISIS going forward. Also I understand the US has nuclear weapons stored on Turkish soil which at this point seems insane.

JCMach1

(27,559 posts)

10. exactly, not only that Erdogan's family members directly profited from ISIS' criminal enterprises

Reply to Maven (Reply #9)

Sat Jul 16, 2016, 05:45 PM

Jul 2016

So yeah, ISIS will be back into Turkey's markets in 3-2-1

KatyMan

(4,197 posts)

11. night of the long knives n/t

Reply to Maven (Original post)

Sat Jul 16, 2016, 05:47 PM

Jul 2016

....

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)

12. Or maybe this is just good luck for Erdogan

Reply to Maven (Original post)

Sat Jul 16, 2016, 06:10 PM

Jul 2016

Unexpected coup happens and fails. Erdogan takes advantage by rounding up up his political opponents.

I think that's the simplest scenario, and still leaves Erdogan being a fascist.

modem77

(191 posts)

13. What really pisses me off is that Erdogan is trying to strong arm us now.

Reply to Maven (Original post)

Sat Jul 16, 2016, 06:57 PM

Jul 2016

Blames some cleric here in the us for the coup and cut off power to our base in Turkey.

LettuceSea

(337 posts)

14. I hope we didn't miss the window to get rid of him.

Reply to modem77 (Reply #13)

Sun Jul 17, 2016, 01:58 AM

Jul 2016

At this point if he is taken out, he's a fucking martyr to a significant number of people.

8.5 mil followers on his VERIFIED (wow) FB account.

This is a shitty situation that could get a lot worse. He's got a lot of leverage and a lot of ways to bluff.

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)

15. I don't know if he is "behind" it...

Reply to Maven (Original post)

Sun Jul 17, 2016, 02:35 AM

Jul 2016

but some things certainly worked out nicely for him, and he sure was ready to act against a large number of individuals right away. I suppose there are a coupe other scenarios that are possible, like he was tipped off ahead of time and planned how best to take advantage. Or it could have been predictable in that he had already purged most of the main threats from the military, leaving a small number of less competent military officers to act out of desperation.

Anyway, he seemed well prepared in that he was well out of danger and ready to act against his enemies/rivals immediately.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)

16. I'm thinking LIHOP.

Reply to Maven (Original post)

Sun Jul 17, 2016, 02:40 AM

Jul 2016

He could've stopped it from happening but decided to let it happen on purpose, because he knew he could squash it and wind up being able to remove thousands of judges which would question his future moves.

Impressive power play.

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