Hit them in the pocketbook. They will only listen if their precious profits go down.

A friend passed this message on to me.

Didn't know that some businesses we're already doing this.

be a customer because of his open carry policy, his response was "we don't want YOUR kind in here anyway".

feel like you do? He'll be singing a different tune then, won't he?

of gun control.

...of cards like this and leave the at checkout if they run into someone carrying a gun, rifle, etc.

I'm not advocating abandoning your cart as a form of protest I'm just thinking of the logistics. If I'm in a grocery store, for example, and I see someone armed, I am out of there. I might take the time to drop one of these notes in the cart if I have it handy but that's about all the time I would take.

I'm not stopping to talk to a manager or the checkout clerk on the way out, either, although I might try to calmly warn others on my way out that there is someone with a gun. I mean, if you see something, say something. I'd feel pretty shitty if the guy DID turn out to be a mass shooter who was just calmly walking deeper into the store before opening fire on all the people I passed on the way out.

I actually think about this as I'm in an open carry state. I probably wouldn't run out if I saw someone with a holstered handgun but some big assault rifle? No fucking way I'm staying in that store.

said to do exactly as you said you would do. Then as soon as you get safely outside, call 911.

I copied your pic....hope that is alright...I will run some off on card stock on my printer.

I received this from a friend and plan to make copies too.

If many people do it then stores might forbid open carry in those areas.

Spread the word.

Our police and gangsters shoot first, ask questions later.

Why is it that the biggest "open carry" assholes only do it in places where there's no danger at all?

BECAUSE THEY ARE COWARDS

meth and heroin are all over small towns and rural areas. Many open carry folks claim it is for protection from crazed drug addicts trying to rob them. Which has happened many times.

While many of the police shootings of innocent civilians lately are shown to be in urban areas. Many of the bad guys shooting police happen in rural secluded areas where there are less witnesses, takes longer for backup to arrive, and it's easier for them to get away.

... or the face in the mirror.

Good point.

Because they're nothing more than exhibitionists.

in a drive by in the MonteMart parking lot on E. Alisal back in the 90's. Gang related, Nortes vs Suds. Is that still going on? (We left the area.)

They cannot even comprehend that we are concerned about what pain, suffering and death that weapon, so quickly and easily put to use, could cause. The Cleveland police apparently now understand this when they consider the danger it could put THEM in.

Most of the young children I've come to know display it naturally, but then many lose it somewhere along the way.

Let them "absorb" the cost of preparing the meal.

... and exactly the same as dine and ditch.

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, too, Yosemite Sam.

Just a guy with a basic understanding of criminal law... Throwing down a card to explain why you committed your crime doesn't excuse you from it.

I'm going to print up some of those cards.

Please...

as substitution for payment of your meal.

I wouldn't. I'd get up and leave.

You're kinda weird if killing devices don't make you uncomfortable.

... if he sees some people of color? He's scared and doesn't want to be in their presence so he can leave right?

He legitimately believes that person may just snap and feels threatened (setting aside the incredibly low probably of such a thing happening. Maybe he just doesn't want to be in their presence.

Doesn't matter they are there legally and not threatening you in any way. Your concern that they might slip and start committing crimes doesn't exempt you from the law.

I fail to follow your logic.

You equated an illogical fear, that of a black person, with the very real fear of a person carrying around an assault weapon.
Absurd.

Your fear is illogical and his is well founded.

The odds of either are very very low.

I have walked away from a rude manager and after waiting 40 minutes for food. Not arrested!

Intent is the difference...

Having on one occason left a restaurant after ordering (but not eating) my food, I'm saddened to learn that I am a criminal. Please share the specific statute that covers this kind of situation.

Thank you!


Now that I think of it, I once had to have an employee search for an item in a store's backroom inventory. I thereafter opted to exit the store without purchasing it, even after the employee had labored to produce it. Was I a criminal then, too?

If yes, then that's on you. If no, and no agreement was reached with the manager, then yes you are a criminal.

As for the employee searching for something that you didn't buy, I suspect that they can sell it again and at no point did you agree to purchase it.

Are you suggesting that the manager should put out the same plate of fish that already went out to the dining area to someone else (older, colder, less fresh and more contaminated and likely not what the next diner expets to be served)?

Again... Basic understanding of law...

... is illegal?

Really?

Absent that, please provide an example of someone who was prosecuted after ordering a meal and then leaving a restaurant.


If you can't cite the law and you can't cite an example of prosecution, then you're just being silly in defense of gun zealotry.

You are asking for the statute that says stealing is illegal?

I'm asking you to provide the statute that says that leaving a restaurant after ordering food is stealing.

Alternatively, I'm asking you to provide an example of a person being successfully prosecuted for theft after ordering food and leaving the restaurant without eating it.


By assuming that such an action constitutes theft, you are begging the question.

You could lie and say that the guy with the gun threatened you or that you saw a cockroach on the food.

Of course if you left your card on the table explaining your intent your master plan might fall apart.

Or any question, frankly.

I am nervous. So simple!

You're totally a criminal, you crime-loving criminal.

And spare me a place in the holding cell because I agree with you completely.

A nervous disposition is not an excuse to commit crime.

If it's theft, as you're pretending, then is a ticket the appropriate police response?

IF indeed it was a crime.

Your lack of intent and any justification should eventually be known.

i.e. figure if I had to track down someone who ran out on service in the scenario as explained because the owner called LE, and he had no problem coming in and settling with the owner, I figure that would be a acceptable typical result.

You're correct to highlight the importance of intent. Further, it's not clear that simply ordering the food and then leaving without eating it (and with damn good reason) confirms intent nor, if intent is confirmed, that it rises to the level of an actionable crime.

I would be interested to see that other DUer's list of examples in which someone has been successfully prosecuted for such action.


Thanks!

As I said above, I'd have a very tough time hauling someone in who had a good reason, and no problems with settling up after the incident.

"Malabehar, 47, was convicted of a similar restaurant theft just prior to the Mattoon incident"

"began plotting to avoid the $25.16 bill"

"they didn’t pay the bill because they were unhappy with the service"

"walked out on a tab of $42.30 at a local bowling alley,"

even though there is/was NO intent?


Any example of those arrests and results?

Of course not. It's still theft of service.

If you've got time to fish around in your wallet / purse to find this special little card to leave to let them know why you're leaving, then you obviously have time to pay.

If you ordered and then realized you had no money, do you think you are guilty if you stay and explain it to the owner?
Do you think he would have you arrested, or rather work something out?


"If you've got time to fish around in your wallet / purse to find this special little card to leave to let them know why you're leaving, then you obviously have time to pay."

Ah - now that makes a bit more sense. Would begin to indicate a true lack of urgency on your part instead of true fear, and more willingness to not pay in order to be spiteful.

I mean hey, if you want to make a political statement, then allow yourself to be arrested. Call the cops and TV stations yourself.

Or alternately, pay first, which doesn't stiff the wait staff.

It seems like folks don't want to take responsibility for their actions- for example, I see a lot of folks promoting protesting a la the 1960's civil rights era, but they get completely bent out of shape when said protesters get cited for disturbing the peace. Civil disobedience entails actually getting arrested / fined / etc.

... and the amount.

Sometimes it is theft of fraud or sometimes theft of services. It can range from a civil citation to a misdemeaner to a low grade felony.

Please cite an example of someone successfully prosecuted for theft after ordering a meal and then leaving a restaurant without eating that meal.


I appreciate you answering after the question had already been thoroughly answered, though. Thanks.

"I feared for my safety and that of my fellow officers."

Make fun of those people all you want.

Because you love guns does not mean everyone does

The cook who made your food, the waitress who will likely lose money- they don't deserve to be stiffed because you got nervous.

I guarantee it is a civil matter, not criminal! Do more reading. Jesus!

Why don't you do your own reading. I've done mine.

This.
Read more, lets chat tomorrow!

What restaurant GM or owner is going to go to court or press charges against a family that leaves because of a well founded fear of violence? What prosecutor would press such a case or indict? What jury would convict?

It's brilliant, and will really cost those businesses some money to throw away prepared food. Not likely the vast majority would risk a significant further cost and bad PR for prosecuting a scared mom or dad and their kids. Fear for your safety would be very solid defense.

.. that in some states it is legal for the owner to take skipped meals out of the paychecks of servers.

So you wouldn't even be screwing the owner but the servers and staff.

Bravo...

I'm like Snidely Whiplash lol.

I mostly remember him for tying damsels in distress to railroad tracks.

In the end, as is typical of many folks trying to 'protest' in the modern era, you are willing to have someone pay a price (as long as it isn't you)

Have a hit or a drink, pops.

Ignored.

I'll own that...

It's going to get your picture and name under the don't serve list, but it's not something that they're going to call the cops over.

Especially if your intent is as laid out in the post above.

Intentionally ordering and then leaving in order to cost the owners. The owners may or may not write it off as a loss but morally and ethically it is the same.

... I truly feel may family is in danger... that's stupid.

You can justify just about anything with it.

... if you feel your family is in danger it makes no sense to try reconcile a payment.

None at all...

You'd leave the area as quick as possible and reconcile later if available.

No one is trying to skip out on the bill... just remove oneself and loved ones from danger.

The post that started this whole subthread

Think you have thought this out much.

No restraunt owner i know wants the police showing up in the restraunt

... or cats or black people or whatever you like.

You don't have the right to steal because of it.

The fact that such a theft might not be worth the hassle to the owner is immaterial. There is no difference between that and having someone paint your house and then you refusing to pay when the bill comes because you saw an NRA sticker on the truck.

They both provided the service and materials you asked for and when the moment came you say 'No' because you don't like the legal choices that they made.

In short, it sounds like a personal problem.

Such as the imaginary need to own large-capacity semiautomatic rifles, for instance.

that you are so fearful you have to leave the restaurant. But you feel safe enough to wait until the food arrives before you flee to safety.

I would leave at the first sight of a gun. I would make it VERY clear to the owners of the establishment WHY I was leaving and would never come back. I'd use one of these cards or call the owners.

to the post I replied to. They clearly stated "just as the food arrives at the table"

You may choose to leave immediately, which at least is more consistent with a perception of treat.

regardless of what point in the service you are at.

Though it may not happen much. I've never seen a gun on a civilian while out. I don't particularly look, though. Maybe better to just leave then publicize that you saw a gun at such and such business.

Never an issue, always properly holstered and no threat

It's not ok to bring killing machines into the place my family is breaking bread.

Add a sentence to the thing saying you won't be back until/unless things change. Then you leave full payment for your untouched meal.

Now there is no longer any question if you're a thief. Plus you've backed up your words with cash and it carries a lot more weight than if you just cut and run. If you'll pay and walk away without eating, you're probably serious, don't you think? There's X dollars the restaurant is maybe seeing for the last time.

If they don't change the rules, you don't return. That's assumed with the whole thing, right? Can't measure your impact? Too bad. Maybe the business will hurt and maybe it won't. That's the risk you take when you engage in this sort of thing.

If you believe in it, you do it. If you're giving it lip service, you game it. Don't game it. That's bullshit.

Sweet dreams