Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Another acquittal in the Freddie Gray case (Original Post) annavictorious Jul 2016 OP
I thought the coroner ruled Freddie's death a homicide? How is homocide not... ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #1
It's the whole "presumption of innocence" thing. The prosecustion has to present jonno99 Jul 2016 #5
And then what happens to the homicide determination the coroner made? nt ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #7
I don't know. My guess is that since there is no statue of limitations on murder, this will jonno99 Jul 2016 #8
Thank you for your responses, jonno99. nt ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #9
Was Freddie Gray's death ever ruled a murder? annavictorious Jul 2016 #17
The homicide determination will still stand. annavictorious Jul 2016 #18
Gotcha. I think I knew that but thank you for the reminder, annavictorious. nt ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #19
There was some testimony concerning the homicide determination during the driver's trial. annavictorious Jul 2016 #20
Homicide is a neutral word treestar Jul 2016 #13
Thank you for the clarification, treestar. nt ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #14
Just to be clear: jonno99 Jul 2016 #2
I know that not all homicides are crimes. annavictorious Jul 2016 #3
This was no accident. nt puffy socks Jul 2016 #4
And that's what proof beyond a reasonable doubt is for. Igel Jul 2016 #12
What I find interesting annavictorious Jul 2016 #6
as if we needed more proof....black lives really DO NOT matter dembotoz Jul 2016 #10
Does "Black Lives Matter" now trump the criminal justice process? Dreamer Tatum Jul 2016 #11
You're right treestar Jul 2016 #15
The Rodney King cops were as guilty as charged, as any fool could see. Dreamer Tatum Jul 2016 #16
All the acquittals were the result of bench trials. annavictorious Jul 2016 #21

jonno99

(2,620 posts)
5. It's the whole "presumption of innocence" thing. The prosecustion has to present
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:03 PM
Jul 2016
proof. Sadly, if no one "talks" - everyone walks...

jonno99

(2,620 posts)
8. I don't know. My guess is that since there is no statue of limitations on murder, this will
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:18 PM
Jul 2016

probably end up in the "cold case" file - waiting for more information, a death-bed confession, etc.

 

annavictorious

(934 posts)
17. Was Freddie Gray's death ever ruled a murder?
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:46 PM
Jul 2016

Didn't Marilyn Mosby charge every cop who had anything to do with the arrest and transport? Who's left to be accused of murder?
This isn't a cold case. The cases have been/are being adjudicated.


 

annavictorious

(934 posts)
18. The homicide determination will still stand.
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:48 PM
Jul 2016

It's just not a criminal homicide.

Homicide and murder are not synonyms.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
13. Homicide is a neutral word
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:33 PM
Jul 2016

to describe all murders, manslaughter, voluntary and involuntary, self defense or even execution. The executioner does commit homicide, but of course that is legal. Successful self defense means you did commit a homicide, but it was legal.

The coroner's evidence would have been offered, so what conclusions jurors draw from it would give some idea.

 

annavictorious

(934 posts)
3. I know that not all homicides are crimes.
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:00 PM
Jul 2016

Some rise to the level of criminality, some are cases of non-criminal negligence, and some are accidents or justifiable acts.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide

Igel

(35,337 posts)
12. And that's what proof beyond a reasonable doubt is for.
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:31 PM
Jul 2016

If it's not there, what's left is faith.

"Now faith means putting our full confidence in the things we hope for, it means being certain of things we cannot see."

Sadly, evidence,

"ground for belief" is from late 14c.; that of "obviousness" is from 1660s and tacks closely to the sense of evident. Legal senses are from c. 1500, when it began to oust witness.


And "evident" just describes something that is clearly seen.

We don't accept faith as proof in trials.

In the absence of actual evidence, what's left is a bias resulting from perceptual salience. (q.v.)
 

annavictorious

(934 posts)
6. What I find interesting
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:08 PM
Jul 2016

is that, given the attention this case garnered worldwide, the media has been strangely silent concerning the actual trials.

We have hobbyists, not journalists. They get on a kick, flood us with discussion and opinion 24/7, and then move on to the next "big" story without ever doing the follow up reporting on last week's "big" story..

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
11. Does "Black Lives Matter" now trump the criminal justice process?
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:30 PM
Jul 2016

Pretty much every legal scholar I've seen and heard has agreed that the the State's Attorney overcharged, and in so doing presented extremely weak cases relative to the charges applied..

Every retort I've seen to the resulting acquittals has been the same: devoid of actual legal content, ignorant of criminal court process and proceeding. Guess what? "He died, and you were there, and I think you had something to do with it, therefore you're guilty" is not a valid avenue of prosecution.

The media has been mostly quiet about this because the whole mess has been an absolute train wreck from the day the officers were overcharged.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
15. You're right
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:44 PM
Jul 2016

I guess in the context people also feel a black victim will result in jurors having views of the evidence that accept their preconceived biases. Part of the frustration of AA people with the justice system - like then the LA cops were acquitted in the Rodney King case.

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
16. The Rodney King cops were as guilty as charged, as any fool could see.
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 12:45 PM
Jul 2016

I don't think these circumstances are the same.

 

annavictorious

(934 posts)
21. All the acquittals were the result of bench trials.
Mon Jul 18, 2016, 01:40 PM
Jul 2016

There were no juries to be biased one way or another.

There was a mistrial in December of the first cop tried. The jury was deadlocked on all counts. The judge has imposed a gag order, so there is no definitive information on why the jury was hung. That officer will be retried after the final trial of the original six. William Porter has the legal right to opt for a bench trial the second time around.

The judge who acquitted the three cops tried before him is an AA who served in the Justice Department investigating police misconduct/corruption.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Another acquittal in the ...