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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat was the Munich murderer's major malfunction? Middle Eastern Muslim? Mentally ill?
So the immediate responses to the horrible events of Munich ranged from, essentially, "He was a blue eyed blond haired Bavarian brownshirt" to "It was inevitably ISIS infiltrators from Iraq".
The accounts I have seen are that the young man seemed to have more of a mass murder fetish than any religious motivation. We do know that he is an Iranian-German who lived much of his short life in Germany. He was apparently a quiet, socially awkward person, and had sought mental health treatment.
People are tripping over themselves playing identity politics with this tragedy. Lost in the whole thing is the reality that there are a LOT more people throughout this world, like this man, of every size and shape and color and religion and nationality and ethnicity and whatever other distinguishing characteristic you can find who is capable of destroying the lives of innocents.
We need to find ways of bringing mentally ill people out of isolation and fear. All this other crap, the religion, the politics, the racial and ethnicity battles, is subservient to the fact that sad, angry, frustrated, socially isolated people can be dangerous, and need our help before they go over the top.
MADem
(135,425 posts)There are all sorts of Persians in Iran--there's Kurds (Hitler called them the original Aryans--very tall people, many have gray or blue eyes, and the kids are often quite blonde before they darken up as many do), assorted religions within the Islamic sphere, and there used to be many Jews and Christians too but most of them have left.
They are calling him "David S." -- I haven't heard a full name, to this point (It really would be 'Davoud' in the regional expression, but perhaps he or his parents Europeanized it?).
Maybe he thought he was an original Aryan. Maybe he was a minority faith and wanted to "take it out" on people. Maybe he just thought the whole Basketball Diaries thing was somehow cool. Maybe he stopped taking his meds, or maybe to this point his mental health issues were simply depression, and just now he began exhibiting the start of schizophrenia which often manifests itself for the first time in young men of his age into the twenties. If he had parents like the VA TECH shooter (they basically were in denial about that kid's illness, and took an "Out of sight, out of mind" POV towards him) then he never had a chance to get some real aggressive help.
Of course, all this is wild speculation, we know nothing to this point, perhaps more will come out in the days and weeks ahead. I do think a forensic examination of WHY???? is helpful--we can't prevent this in future if we don't take the time to figure out if there's a pattern.
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)The gunman who killed nine people and then shot himself has been identified by classmates as Ali Sonboly.
Kate Connolly @connollyberlin
De Maiziere says the gunman came from a Muslim - Shi'ite background. Might have converted to Christianity, but not religious say his parents
2:15 PM - 23 Jul 2016
De Maiziere - confirms the existence of FB account which invited people to come and eat for free at McDonald's, killing them once they came
2:04 PM - 23 Jul 2016
De Maiziere confirms: no indication the #Munich attacker had a connection to internationl terrorism #muenchen
2:06 PM - 23 Jul 2016
The shooting took place on the fifth anniversary of Breiviks mass killings in Oslo and Utoya, in which he killed 77 people.
Kate Connolly @connollyberlin
Due to his obsession with mass shootings investigators in #Munich work on assumption Ali S wanted to 'mark' 5th anniv of Utøya murders
12:49 PM - 23 Jul 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/22/munich-shooting-police-evacuate-shopping-centre-live
All but one of his victims were youngsters.
Seven of the nine people killed in a shooting spree at a Munich shopping mall on Friday were teenagers, including two 13-year-olds.
Police said on Saturday that two victims were 13, three were 14, one was 17 and another was 19. The remaining two were 20 and 45. Six were male and three were female. All were from the Munich area.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/23/victims-of-munich-shooting-were-predominately-teenagers
Igel
(35,317 posts)SW Asian.
It's early, but be creative with what you know. Perhaps he was an Islamist. They can be crazy, too. Like my mentally ill but thoroughly Democratic BIL. The voices in his head may have told him that his neighbor was QEII in the service of the CIA to spy on him, but he voted (D).
And, yes, his (R) family tried to pass off his politics as mental illness. So it's best not to go there. You may see a rotten apple but still can't conclude all rotten fruit must be apples--pears, plums, tomatoes all rot.
And Islamists don't need to be Sunni. They can be Shi'ites.
Or perhaps he's just crazy.
It may be that he felt persecuted because he assimilated and others told him he was ultimate evil for daring to not worship his ancestors and let his life be guided by where his grandparents' genes sojourned, or he may have been a nice guy too often assumed to be an Islamist by peers and others and it was hurting his pursuit of happiness or girls.
Who knows. Some like to glom onto the "Islamic terrorist" because that's all the rage. A disproportionate number. Perhaps he was as one person put it a "blue-eyed Aryan" Persian--not that there are many of those, even though Iranians are ethnically diverse ("Persian" is an ethnicity). But far too many DUers are hypocrites. If it's a possible Muslim terrorist, "I know nothing", but if it looks like a RW Xian crazy, then "I'm omniscient and you are cretins for denying my omniscience." You see the same nonesense with domestic crimes--if a cop guns down a black guy, we want to know how what he had for breakfast on 5/3/08 indicates his utter evilness, but we're not like those dorks who want to know the gunned-down guy's criminal past. If a white guy kills a bunch of folks, we disparage attempts to say he was insane, but if a black guy does the same thing let the armchair psychiatrists punditize--and even try to show that his victims might have deserved it.
Jury's not even out yet, but sitting in the jury box.
modem77
(191 posts)People from middle east can often have less respect for each other than they do those from Europe or US. Shia see the Sunnis as dogs and not even human. Sounds more like sectarian type violence.
Democat
(11,617 posts)Some articles say the video people were telling him they hate Turks and he was saying he wasn't Turkish, but German.
daleo
(21,317 posts)They have been linked to mass killings. Throw in some possible religious radicalization, and you have a dangerous combination.
The Columbine killers are an example of this:
Harris wanted to join the United States Marine Corps, but his application was rejected shortly before the shootings because he was taking the drug fluvoxamine, an SSRI antidepressant, which he was required to take as part of court-ordered anger management therapy. According to the recruiting officer, Harris did not know about this rejection. Though some friends of Harris suggested that he had stopped taking the drug beforehand,[46] the autopsy reports showed low therapeutic or normal (not toxic or lethal) blood-levels of Luvox (fluvoxamine) in his system, which would be around 0.0031-0.0087 mg%,[47] at the time of death.[48] After the shootings, opponents of contemporary psychiatry like Peter Breggin[49] claimed that the psychiatric medications prescribed to Harris after his conviction (ostensibly for obsessive-compulsive disorder) may have exacerbated his aggressiveness.[50]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)It's one of the only constants at DU and the type of tragedy it is doesn't matter. Hurricane or earthquake? "How do they vote?" gets asked before the first mention of help is made.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Like in Orlando or Nice, the individual cocktail in this particular shooter's head is probably a complex mix. Just one twisted tree.
However, being of Iranian origin, he probably was of Shia background, and he shouted insults about Sunni Turks before being shot. Some Shia-Sunni rivalry.
So, again, there's an element of religious -Islamic- literalism in the mix. As in the Orlando, Nice, San Bernardino, Paris, Tunis, Cairo, Bamako attacks. Which are a forest of commonality.
It would be dangerous to let demagogues like Trump offer steps vs Islamic supremacism.
Hillary should review sharply downward her plans to welcome ME migrants.
Calculating
(2,955 posts)Is what I'm calling it.
Kahina_Loren
(19 posts)I got very sad reading the posts about this here with people trying to pointscore, coming with wild racist statements.
The world is a complex case, where cause and effect can be extremly difficult to entangle in the social sciences.
What we all can do though, is to make sure we take better care of each others.
Here, schools and teachers (and teachers need far better backing from both school administrators, politicans as well as the wider public) have a great responsibility.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Do they always need a solid reason? Maybe someone looked at him the wrong way last Friday. Who knows.
GermanWatcher
(61 posts)I'm a TV journalist in Munich, working for German National TV (ARD). I've been covering this story since it broke some 26 hours ago. Just got home.
Here's the thing: From all that my colleagues were able to verify, this really seems to be the case of a single shooter on a rampage.
The perpetrator was an 18 year old German of Iranian descent. He was born in Germany. He seems to have suffered from mental problems, he even referred to that himself in one of the videos made by people on the scene.
The investigation has turned up no connections to terror groups such as ISIS, but found books about students going on shooting sprees.
I've checked some of this myself, trusted colleagues have verified other parts of the story.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)does not necessarily mean that he was motivated by ISIS or any other kind of Islamic extremism.
GermanWatcher
(61 posts)At this point, everything that is verified does not show a link to organized terror.