General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsVirginia Governor Bypasses Court Ruling To Help 200,000 Ex-Felons Vote
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/07/23/3801355/virginia-felon-voting-update/Virginia Governor Bypasses Court Ruling To Help 200,000 Ex-Felons Vote
by Alice Ollstein
Jul 23, 2016 10:36 am
Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D) is taking action to restore the voting rights of thousands of ex-offenders in the state after a court decision Friday put them in jeopardy. Hes getting around the Virginia Supreme Courts ruling against him by signing 200,000 individual clemency grants to the states ex-offenders to ensure their right to vote in November.
In a 4 to 3 decision late Friday, the Supreme Court of Virginia stripped away the voting rights from 200,000 ex-offenders who had recently regained full civil rights through one of McAuliffes executive orders, effectively disenfranchising one in five of the states African American voters.
The court said the governor lacks the authority under the state constitution to issue a blanket rights restoration to everyone in the state with a felony record who has already served their full sentence. A study earlier this year found that the vast majority of those impacted 80 percent committed non-violent crimes. Most have been out of prison for more than a decade, and African Americans are disproportionately represented. Forty-six percent of the ex-offenders are black, though blacks make up less than 20 percent of the states population.
The non-partisan group that has for months been leading the charge on registering ex-offenders to vote, New Virginia Majority, released a statement saying the ruling reaffirms the Commonwealths Jim Crow legacy, noting that the vast majority of states restore voting rights upon release from prison.
Excluding Virginians from the ballot, even after theyve paid their debts to society, is a cruel, inhumane reminder of past mistakes, said Tram Nguyen, the groups executive director. Importantly, todays ruling validates entrenched interests in the Virginia General Assembly bent on silencing a large swath of Black Virginians in order to maximize their political power.
But just hours after the decision, McAuliffe vowed to push back by signing clemency grants for the states ex-offenders one by one.
The struggle for civil rights has always been a long and difficult one, but the fight goes on, he wrote. I remain committed to moving past our Commonwealths history of injustice to embrace an honest process for restoring the rights of our citizens, and I believe history and the vast majority of Virginians are on our side.
more...
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/07/23/3801355/virginia-felon-voting-update/
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)him to present the particulars of each and every case with the reason for his granting relief to the legislature during regular session.
The VA legislature is adjourned until after the election
MADem
(135,425 posts)not in session?
There's provisions in the federal one for that....
Also, he's not changing anyone's sentence, here, they're already out. He's not cutting people loose from jail. No sentence commuting, or anything of that nature. There's a distinction and a difference, there.
I gotta hand it to Terry. He's put enfranchisement front and center, and it IS a big deal. Once someone has paid their debt to society, they should be able to rejoin society FULLY.
He's on the side of the angels with this move, even though he may end up with carpal tunnel if he doesn't use the auto-pen!
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)instead of issuing his proclamation the day after the legislature recessed.
He should have done what he says he's going to do, now, at the beginning of the year. It would have been presented and constitutionally valid
MADem
(135,425 posts)He doesn't have to obtain PERMISSION.
He merely has to INFORM them the next time they show up for work.
Good for Terry.
I am very chuffed that he did this--it's the right damn thing to do.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)it's not valid until presented, as part of the required process.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Keep us in the loop, basically. Give us a report so we know what you were up to.
And he will do that, as soon as they show up for work. But life doesn't stop because they're on vacation.
He is not supplicating, here, he is not asking permission. This is IN his wheelhouse. It is within his authority to do this. The feedback loop to the legislature is bookkeeping, not permission. The deal is DONE by the time the report gets to the legislature.
It's only 13,000 people who have already registered to vote, so he'll do them first, and then do the rest of them later.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)The man actually restored the voting rights of a felon who is currently serving time in a mental facility until he's found fit to stand trial on his new felony charge.
And then there's the felons who left the state and now sit in prisons in other states.
It was a cluster fuck from the get go
MADem
(135,425 posts)The blanket ruling overturned by the racist panel of judges is a completely different thing from 13K individual clemency documents, for those who have registered to vote, followed by 187K more for ex-offenders who have also paid their debt to society.
FWIW, a man who is being held in a mental facility because he is non compos mentis but who has not yet been tried or convicted of anything is not yet guilty of anything save being a danger to himself, or others. How hideous that you're trying to suggest otherwise. We do have presumption of innocence in USA, you know.
And we don't remove the right to vote from people with mental health issues.
If he discharged a previous debt to society, then he is a former felon. Being held for charges in a mental hospital is not proof of guilt, it's a medical assertion of mental illness requiring commitment for the safety of the patient and the public; but it is NOT an "admission of guilt" -- and if you continue along these lines, I am going to have to draw some very harsh conclusions about your attitude towards the rule of law.
You acquit yourself very poorly in this thread. What's a "cluster fuck" is your cheerleading for disenfranchisement. It's frankly shameful.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)serving time in other states.
The 13k were the ones who registered since the blanket clemency. Who knows if TMs people bothered to look into where they currently reside and what their pending legal status is in their rush to get this done.
And racist? He didn't have the authority to do what he did. And his attempt to half ass it, again, will be shot down
MADem
(135,425 posts)Some homework for you. https://exoffenders.net/felon-voting-rights/
It wasn't ONE judge who ruled on this, it was several. The vote went along racial and party lines. I thought you were well versed in this topic, apparently you are not.
People who register to vote generally do it WHERE THEY LIVE. These are all recent registrations.
Most states--check your homework, above--will let ex-felons vote. VA is a state with a problem; the governor is attempting to rectify it.
And calling a gubernatorial prerogative "half ass" ing it?
You are far afield.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)The process is clear. TM didn't adhere to it.
I can read, I know what was done and I read the decision
Even Tim Kaine asserted that the governor lacked the authority to do this back in 2010. The state constitution hasn't changed, with regard to the governor's clemency powers.
MADem
(135,425 posts)and if you don't like it, too bad.
The issue here was BLANKET clemency with a majority GOP/white judiciary. Reverse that and you'd get a different decision.
In any event, it's going to be blanket clemency, meted out individually.
smdh.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)The legislature gets their report when they return, but the deed is done when the clemency document is signed.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)for the same reasons.
now, is Tim Kaine a racist partisan?
Is a practice that treats all felons equally, without regard to race, racist?
MADem
(135,425 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)how could one be based on racism and the other not be?
MADem
(135,425 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)all felons lose their right regardless of race, religion, sex or ethnicity...and you're screaming about racism.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)authority to issue blanket clemency based on the va constitution.
Kaine figured it out in 2010, the court agreed with his interpretation which is the same as mine based on the plain text of the constitution
she's a poe of trump, imo.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)This "plain text" you cite talks about pardons and reprieves "granted" - past tense.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)therefore they are not constitutionally valid until presented.
Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)as a former resident, from 76 to 90, I've noted the dramatic changes
NOVA has become much more liberal, joining the urban/sane voting block to the extent that this state has voted dem for only the third time (last two elections) since 1952, the lone exception being the 64 Goldwater fiasco
http://www.270towin.com/states/Virginia
Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)555 hours?
about 9 weeks of 60 hours each? that's a lot of signing
CNN resident idiot Scottie Nell Hughes just bemoaned the circumventing of the court ruling. har.
watch her video, whose ending slide is at the bottom:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/scottie-nell-hughes-announces-new-gig-at-cnn-in-most-ostentatious-way-possible/
MADem
(135,425 posts)She's not even STAFF--she's a contract worker for the duration of general election season. She's mainly for "color" because she knows the Trump organization. They may use her to get to someone on the inside, on occasion, for deep background or what-have-you.
As for Terry, if use of the AUTOPEN is legal (and I don't see why not, so long as there's a document with his signature saying "Issue clemency declarations to this list of people" , all he needs is a crew of staff (with the equivalent of what's called in the military "By Direction" authority) to check each document and maybe put an initial next to the autopen signature.
Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)tomatoes are going TRUMP on me!
MADem
(135,425 posts)Scruffy1
(3,256 posts)spooky3
(34,458 posts)Unlikely that opponents have the resources to do that.
Surely McAuliffe has competent legal advisers who wouldn't advise him to waste his time on signing 200000 orders if they are meaningless.
According to this
https://governor.virginia.gov/newsroom/newsarticle?articleId=16047
He has experts, including someone who was an author of the constitution, who say he has this individual signature authority.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)spooky3
(34,458 posts)It doesn't appear so as the writer is named, and nothing is said about advisers' role in the first case. Here is more info about Howard, who was an author, but I don't know why you couldn't have googled it before mocking it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.E._Dick_Howard
It was a 4-3 decision with the majority white and 2 members of the minority black. Doesn't that strike you as being rather politically, and possibly racially motivated?
Other sources have described the reasoning to be based on convention and not on Constitutional language.
Your posts, without links, are losing credibility here.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)it's not vague
MADem
(135,425 posts)The governor does not have to obtain PERMISSION from the legislature, he just has to let them know what he DID (past tense--what he DID, not what he's gonna do).
You are trying too hard, here. This is NOT an "advise and consent" function. It's a bookkeeping matter.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)Here I am getting schooled on how the Democrats were responsible for Jim Crow:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8041659
I had forgotten it since the 15 times a week my freeper sister in law posts it on Facebook
MADem
(135,425 posts)Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)or the crooked, FAR right wing judge who tipped the scales in favor of overthrowing Ollie North's conviction?
since you're the expert, what's the makeup of the court that ruled via POWERFUL majority on the 'constitutionality' of his actions?
nothing political there, no doubt, right?>>>>
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/gop-wins-long-va-supreme-court-fight-with-mcauliffe/2016/03/10/928bb182-e6d5-11e5-a6f3-21ccdbc5f74e_story.html
so where do you stand on this? are you for or against the idea of felons forever being deprived of their right to vote after paying their debt to society?
if you're for the idea, fair enough. you make a constitutional argument to a clearly political struggle, dealing with a court that is APPPOINTED by the VA legislature, which is every bit as hostile to McAuliffe as congress is to Obama. you didn't mention that very salient fact in your pristine, 'constitutionally' based posts, whose veracity seem only bolstered by your own insistence. who should we believe, your own, uncited admonitions, or the ones which quote actual constitutional language.
if you're against the concept, why are you even here?
for or against all the phony voter suppression laws that are, finally, starting to be slapped down in the courts?
anxious to hear
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)you realize this stunt restored rights to felons serving life sentences in other states, sitting in local jails awaiting sentencing on new felony charges and, in one case, a man who is currently in a state psychiatrist prison?
This was a poorly thought out and even more poorly executed stunt.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I think you're protesting too much, there.
It's not a "stunt." It's JUSTICE.
Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)appears that it has no problem with voter suppression/denial of restoration of voting rights that is the cornerstone of republican election strategy
I'll assume that to be the case until it responds to that question
does it care at all about the phony striking of names from the voter rolls in florida, which, if reversed, all by itself would have changed the course of history, by not allowing bush to have availed himself of the sacred 'constitutional' process, of which it seems to be so fond
note, also, it failed to answer the question of a totally politicized VA supreme court, along with the selection process, itself
that court has all the legitimacy of the one that gave us Bush. nice precedent. a precedent, of course, which was denied by that very court in ruling for Bush
MADem
(135,425 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Again, you do realize that disenfranchisement is a Republican--not a Democratic Party--goal?
Perhaps you don't realize this, but MOST states restore voting rights to ex-felons.
Here, a primer for you: https://exoffenders.net/felon-voting-rights/
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)and not just for voting, guns too.
You want them automatically restored? Commit your felony in a state that automatically restores them.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)The rational mind concludes the rights have indeed, been earned back (more accurately, "restored"-- though I realize that phrase counters your own narratives) by fulfilling the terms of incarceration.
Although I'd be certainly entertain the litmus test you'd place on "earning back" rights should you choose to rationalize them.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)in other states, awaiting sentencing on new crimes or sitting in a state mental hospital deserve it then.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/mcauliffes-clemency-order-comes-under-scrutiny/2016/06/02/af5eba22-28e1-11e6-a3c4-0724e8e24f3f_story.html
niyad
(113,336 posts)Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)wonder if it will be back
perhaps it went to some law links in search of support
OR, perhaps it realizes that there are some who are willing and able to rationally challenge said unsupported assertions......
niyad
(113,336 posts)can actually think!!
Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)I was talking about the one who supports the idea of unconstitutional restoration of voting rights for convicts
niyad
(113,336 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)niyad
(113,336 posts)The state corrected the errors Thursday after inquiries from The Post about why the civil rights of Cloud, Harmon-Wright and several others were restored, according to a searchable database on the Secretary of Commonwealth website. Their rights were restored on April 22, the day McAuliffe signed the clemency order.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)You'd have felons, serving time in other states, or currently awaiting sentencing on new crimes, possibly voting in VA Elections right along with a guy who was serving his sentence in a state mental hospital.
This is one of the problems with what TM did.
RonniePudding
(889 posts)The poster seems emotionally invested in keeping people from voting. Not typically the behavior of a progressive. Might be a gunner, too.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)The constitution.
Maybe you're fine with guys serving sentences in state mental hospitals or serving life sentences in other states having their VA voting rights restored because the governor didn't bother doing the basic due diligence needed to make sure the right people had their rights restored.
I have a problem with it
RonniePudding
(889 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)It just says...
The Governor shall have power to remit fines and penalties under such rules and regulations as may be prescribed by law; to grant reprieves and pardons after conviction except when the prosecution has been carried on by the House of Delegates; to remove political disabilities consequent upon conviction for offenses committed prior or subsequent to the adoption of this Constitution; and to commute capital punishment.
He shall communicate to the General Assembly, at each regular session, particulars of every case of fine or penalty remitted, of reprieve or pardon granted, and of punishment commuted, with his reasons for remitting, granting, or commuting the same.
So nothing precludes him from taking action, and then communicating his action to the General Assembly the next time they are in session.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)it's not valid until presented
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)to be valid.
That will be the next suit to counter his new plan.
It's not as simple as signing a letter of clemency. The particulars of each case must be presented with reasons for the relief.
It is not valid until presented at the regular session.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)If what you were saying is true, a death row inmate seeking clemency at the 11th hour would be executed even if the governor approved it simply because the legislature wasn't in session. The Virginia legislature is only in session for about 6 weeks out of the year, so the idea that a governor might have to wait almost 11 months to take action on something the legislature can't even deny to begin with is just not that great of an idea and is demonstrably false.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)If your answer is No, that should tell you something.
If your answer is Yes, you're ignoring the plain text of the document
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)WillowTree
(5,325 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Probably because it would be monumentally stupid to do so.
Read the link in my previous post for a relevant example. I'm sure there's lots more.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Very telling that.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)all the state did was not kill him in the meantime per the governor's order.
it was not constitutionally valid until it was presented to the assembly, as required
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)You don't get to have it both ways. Without a valid order of clemency, there would have been no legal authority to halt the execution. If you think otherwise, then you should explain the legal authority which allowed the governor to halt the execution. Alleging they ignored a judge's lawful order of execution for shits and giggles just isn't worth that much.
If your allegedly solid theory of jurisprudence had any merit, why then is there exactly zero mention of it in the court petition on the executive order? Did you even get that far into thinking this one out? It's not as if they didn't throw everything else into the mix when they filed it.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)no one challenged the clemency order. It became constitutionally valid upon presentation to the legislature when the process was completed
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Amazing how you invent things into the constitution that aren't there, while simultaneously ignoring what actually is in there.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)I've said, from the start, clemency isn't valid until presented to the legislature
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)I provided you with a relevant example which proves your assertion dead wrong. The best you could come up with to support your assertion is a non-sequitur.
Since you have yet to come up with anything else, I'm getting a bit tired of the argumentum ad nauseum tactic. Feel free to continue on your own here.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)make up your mind.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)That's redonkulous. Not happening.
former9thward
(32,020 posts)Courts are not idiots and would never allow that. One suit will be filed and the rest will be on hold until that is settled.
MADem
(135,425 posts)It does NOT say "Your shit is not valid UNTIL you tell us what you did." If that were a requirement, it surely would be MENTIONED in the document, and it is not.
He's on solid ground.
Your premise that this is the way it works is totally absurd. The government continues on in the absence of the legislature. If the governor could not accomplish anything while they're out of session, TM might as well sashay off to Aruba, or something. The governor has a right to accomplish that which is within the purview of his portfolio, and clemency is in that bag.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)then it cannot be valid until presented
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Those are two different and distinct processes. The clemency is granted, and THEN the report to the legislature is provided. One does not "wait" on the other.
You are completely mistaken. You can try dying on this hill if you'd like, but it's a pointless effort--the document is clear as day.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)...just one day before he was scheduled to be executed. The Virginia legislature wasn't due to be in session for another 2 months. If what the previous poster is saying were true, Robin Lovitt would be dead today.
So it's not as if all of this isn't easily disproved.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/30/us/clemency-stops-an-execution-in-virginia.html
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)until presented to the legislature.
The fact the state didn't murder him in the meantime doesn't change the constitutional process or requirements.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)So I'll ask it a different way and give you another chance to either answer it or dodge it again.
If the governor's 11th hour clemency of a death row inmate isn't valid until the legislature is in session, should they be put to death?
If you don't understand the question, please ask and I will better explain it to you. Simply avoiding the question provides its own answer.
MADem
(135,425 posts)when McAuliffe specifically says this is for people who have PAID their debt to society. Many have been on the straight-and-narrow for a decade or more.
This is all about EX felons, not guys in jail now: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2016/07/23/3801355/virginia-felon-voting-update/
and it is also about mostly non-violent offenders, and one in five black men living in VA.
I think the poster is displeased that the Democratic governor found a way around obstructionist, disenfranchising judges.
Too bad about that. Voting rights are human rights.
Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)a declaration of bona fides might be a good thing
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)whose VA rights would have been restored huh?
One guy is in a state mental hospital until he's fit to stand trial on a new felony
MADem
(135,425 posts)You'd do well to read the TOS here. Democrats favor access to the polls.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)I wonder, would you support them owning guns too?
MADem
(135,425 posts)in any way, shape or form. Disenfranchising citizens, particularly those who have incurred a debt to society and PAID IT in full, is denying them a basic right and ostracizing them from our society, which encourages recidivism.
This is social science 101--not rocket science. Only the Republicans take such a backward view of the process, mainly because the fewer poor and brown and black people who vote, to say nothing of women, the better off they are.
I am a strong advocate for more, not less, gun control. I'm certainly not advocating punishing some weed smoking rasta who got sent up the river for twenty years on a dumb ass over-charge (Because War On Drugs!!!) any more or less than I'd punish a Trumpkid - looking inside trader who did a tour at Club Fed.
You've misread the law. McAuliffe is within his rights.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)Surely you don't want an actual enumerated right in the state constitution to be stripped from a guy who paid his debt to society, especially a black man living in a state with a racist Supreme Court and backwards laws that steal rights from minorities who paid their debt to the state.
Who cares if the governor half asses his part of the process and restores the rights of a person who is legally insane, serving a life sentence in a neighboring state or awaiting sentencing on a new felony conviction, right? It's about 2016 not actually making sure the right people are having their rights restored for the right reason.
If TM had done his job correctly the first time, the issue would be over. Instead it's going to be even more closely scrutinized and played as an attempt to hand the state to HRC in some corrupt manner....especially if it's found that there are people whose right to vote is restored while they're sitting in a prison cell in MD serving a life sentence
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)You still haven't explained how Robin Lovitt is still alive.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)it was presented to the legislature.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)You are dodging the question.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)If not, please say so as it would save a lot of time.
Press Virginia
(2,329 posts)would ignore an order by the governor and execute someone
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Sounds like you are now claiming the order was valid, which directly contradicts your previous claim that it wasn't.
The doublespeak is getting pretty strong.
MADem
(135,425 posts)and his "burden" of notification is discharged.
I realize this is upsetting to you, but the document clearly indicates that the authority is HIS, and his only duty to the legislature is letting them know, AFTER THE FACT, that he has done it. The legislature has NO authority over him in this regard--they can't stop him, all they are is "informed" after the fact.
It's clear as day in the constitution. Read it with an un-jaundiced eye. Not sure why you are trying so hard to see what isn't there, but Major Nikon is right on the money, here.
You're reading the thing wrong.
Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)until that, ignore its 'contributions'
pretty simple, yes
does this remind anyone of the merry go round that developed among all the trumpbots, insisting that there was NO PLAGIARISM by trump's female appendage?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)He's HATED here in some corners--yet here he is, standing up and being a real mensch.
Good for Terry--I love it when Dems do right!
FSogol
(45,488 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)commonwealth.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I stand corrected!
SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Provided they aren't violating civil rights laws, they are allowed to disenfranchise certain people with cause.
It's just a coincidence that an overwhelming disparate number of POC are disenfranchised.
SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)These are folks who have paid their debt for their crimes. What possible justification do states have to take away their constitutional rights? What compelling state interest does it serve? Seems like a blatant violation of the equal protection clause.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)It's a very old idea that goes back to the founding of the country and probably well before that. Many states have abandoned the idea and two even allow people to vote behind bars.
The Nazi GOP uses it to illegitimately insure they remain in power. The state of Mississippi actually tried to expand the list of crimes to things like shoplifting.
Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)in the election....got about no response
what do you think?
that and recurring civil unrest/violence/terror would seem to the elephants in the electoral tent
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Even people behind bars should be allowed to vote.
I haven't really thought about what should be the most important issue. Many come to mind. Voter suppression is one of many fascist initiatives of the GOP and I'd have to say that it should be very high on the list. There are counties in my state of Texas where fascist sheriffs are stationing deputies at polling places specifically to discourage minorities from voting. The shit is getting way out of hand. If you look at the civil unrest, it's happening where it's always happened which is in the states that have the most bigoted policies.
SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)Under that rationale, all of us would lose the right to vote.
If we let racists vote, felons should vote.
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)JustinL
(722 posts)In Richardson v Ramirez, 418 U. S. 24 (1974), at a time when conservatives held a 6-3 majority, the Court upheld felon disenfranchisement by a 6-2 vote (two of the liberals dissented, while the third, Douglas, didn't reach the merits).
Justice Rehnquist's majority opinion left undisturbed prior holdings that a restriction on the franchise generally must meet a "compelling state interest." His opinion hinged on his interpretation of the interrelationship between the Equal Protection Clause and section 2 of the 14th Amendment:
The heart of his opinion, from pp. 54-55:
"'largely through the accident of political exigency, rather than through the relation which it bore to the other sections of the Amendment,'"
we must not look to it for guidance in interpreting § 1. It is as much a part of the Amendment as any of the other sections, and how it became a part of the Amendment is less important than what it says and what it means.
IOW, the general "compelling interest" rule announced in prior rulings did not apply to felon disenfranhcisement. Justice Marshall's dissenting opinion, joined by Justice Brennan, disagreed with this interpretation. From pp. 73-74 (footnotes omitted):
The political motivation behind § 2 was a limited one. It had little to do with the purposes of the rest of the Fourteenth Amendment. As one noted commentator explained:
"'It became a part of the Fourteenth Amendment largely through the accident of political exigency, rather than through the relation which it bore to the other sections of the Amendment.'"
" I)t seems quite impossible to conclude that there was a clear and deliberate understanding in the House that § 2 was the sole source of national authority to protect voting rights, or that it expressly recognized the states' power to deny or abridge the right to vote."
It is clear that § 2 was not intended, and should not be construed, to be a limitation on the other sections of the Fourteenth Amendment. Section 2 provides a special remedy -- reduced representation -- to cure a particular form of electoral abuse -- the disenfranchisement of Negroes. There is no indication that the framers of the provisions intended that special penalty to be the exclusive remedy for all forms of electoral discrimination. This Court has repeatedly rejected that rationale. See Reynolds v. Sims, 377 U. S. 533 (1964); Carrington v. Rash, 380 U. S. 89 (1965).
Rather, a discrimination to which the penalty provision of § 2 is inapplicable must still be judged against the Equal Protection Clause of § 1 to determine whether judicial or congressional remedies should be invoked.
Hopefully, with a new liberal majority on the Court, Richardson v Ramirez will be overruled.
SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)The fact that the did not even try to articulate a state interest, let alone a compelling one, is telling.
JustinL
(722 posts)As far as I know, section 2 of the 14th Amendment has never been used for its intended purpose of protecting voting rights. No matter how many of its citizens it disenfranchised through poll taxes, literacy tests, white primaries, etc., no state ever suffered a reduction in Congressional representation as a result.
SunSeeker
(51,571 posts)...that alone should make it unconstitutional. Cruel history indeed.
lark
(23,105 posts)I love it when Dems get creative in helping their fellow men.
malthaussen
(17,202 posts)I don't think using an executive order to restore voting rights is the right move, constitutionally. Voting rights have normally been in the purview of the legislature, not the executive, haven't they? (With application to the Courts if the legislature violates the Constitution of the state in question). What would be the effect if suit was filed on the grounds that depriving time-served felons of the right to vote is unconstitutional? Wouldn't that be the route most in keeping with the idea of checks and balances? Could even be a class action suit, to avoid having to deal on a case-by-case basis.
-- Mal
Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)just curious
malthaussen
(17,202 posts)Most of it seems to be a debate with one individual over the mechanics of awarding clemency in Virginia.
Since the governor's executive order has already been declared overreach by lower court, the question is not one of the legality of the action, but rather if it is right and fitting that the executive should decide who is and is not eligible to vote in the state.
-- Mal
Gabi Hayes
(28,795 posts)the VA court situation is totally politicized, just as that SCOTUS was, with similar, anti-democratic results
if the court had been filled according to the governor's wishes, instead of being stalled and blocked by an insanely right wing VA legislature, would you have agreed that the decision to allow the convicts to vote, therefore, constitutional
big fan of Bush v. Gore, are you?
malthaussen
(17,202 posts)... a matter on which I am not competent to comment, you seem to be asserting that if the Court were politicized in another direction, the constitutionality of the Governor's act would have been affirmed.
But I am not, for the present, interested in the legal question, but rather in the question of right. Should it within the purview of the executive branch to decide who has and has not the right to vote? Is there precedent established that it is? Or has it rather, for good or ill, been a question subject to the Legislature with judicial review?
Bush v Gore does not apply.
And to forestall any question on the subject, I do not favor, as a matter of right, that felons should be denied the right to vote once their sentence has been completed.
-- Mal
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Just like pardoning or commuting, in Virginia the Governor can also restore voting rights. Since I believe that it's acceptable for an executive to pardon or commute, this dilution follows naturally.
malthaussen
(17,202 posts)Theoretically, does not the power to loose imply the power to bind? If the governor can enfranchise a group of people by the proverbial stroke of the pen, what prevents him from disenfranchising a group?
-- Mal
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)... to restore rights than take away rights.
Trial by jury and the requirement of due process of law prevents the executive acting in such a manner.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Legislature makes the laws, judiciary applies them, governor enforces them. Part of that circle is that each branch has remedies it can use to correct the actions of the other branches.
I don't think any executive in a Western democracy can sign an order taking AWAY voting rights, at least not in a legal way, though I also suppose lots of shenanigans occur though with number of voting booths, counting votes, etc.
underahedgerow
(1,232 posts)society.
I'm not a fan of state's rights, but that's a whole 'nuther Oprah.
For if you suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves and then punish them.
― Thomas More, Utopia
frankieallen
(583 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)For Ex-Felons, Limited Rights Mean A Future On Hold
frankieallen
(583 posts)I don't think so, if you have a felony on your record, your a felon...period.
As it should be, a felony is a very serious crime.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)But now? Disturbing a funeral is a felony in Delaware for example, as is transferring "obscene" material such as any recordings with an extraordinarily broad definition of the word including "The work or conduct taken as a whole lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value."
MADem
(135,425 posts)Murderer is not a synonym for felon. Rapist is not a synonym for felon.
In some jurisdictions and circumstances, those crimes are misdemeanors.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misdemeanor_murder
http://www.people.com/article/prep-school-rape-trial-owen-labrie-found-guilty-misdemeanor-sexual-assault
Your argument is very poor, indeed. I told you where you could find examples of the term being used. "I don't think so" is not a valid rebuttal.
I am sure NPR et.al. won't lose any sleep over your pique.
Abq_Sarah
(2,883 posts)There should be a full restoration of ALL your rights.
Gothmog
(145,313 posts)Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)but this makes me glad to be a Democrat.
I have seen so many good kids lose their rights and spend years never catching up because of the disenfranchisement old men heap on young people.
Yeah, I'm talking to you you old fucks who benefit from messing up poor young people's lives.
Today was torment watching one person so sick of paying for the pettiest of crimes for YEARS today just say "fuck it, I can't get hired, I can't move out of the state, I can't feed myself, I can't get any help so I'm gonna turn myself in, spend a year locked up to just be done with it."
The mind fuck we have done to young people, saying: "you made a little mistake, but you're poor so you get everything stripped from you" is criminal and a sin. Old men are getting erections and making fortunes telling young men they are less than human.
I am so glad McAuliffe refuses to be bullied by all of the decrepit, bitter old asshats who think nothing of denying others their basic human rights. I can't wait til the old mean turds all die off.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)Only four states currently take away a 'felon's' right to vote for the rest of his life: FL, VA, KY, and IA.Though a 2005 11th Circuit decision in FL seemed to foreclose most prospects for overturning these disfranchisement' through 14th Amendment federal lawsuits, a Georgetown Law student thinks VA's disfranchisement' might be ripe for such legal action:
"Consider this infamous quote from the 1901-02 Virginia Constitutional Convention:
'Discrimination! Why, that is precisely what we propose. That, exactly, is what this Convention was elected forto discriminate to the very extremity of permissible action under the limitations of the Federal Constitution, with a view to the elimination of every negro voter who can be gotten rid of legally, without materially impairing the numerical strength of the white electorate'.
.That quote comes from Carter Glass, a future U.S. Senator and the very delegate who sponsored the states suffrage amendment."
(quote from Alex Keyssars The Right to Vote: The Contested History of Democracy in the United States)
Now, two things are clear from these statements: first, the explicit intent behind the suffrage laws adopted at the Virginia Constitutional Convention in 1901-02 was to discriminate on the basis of race; second, these legislators believed that any law which did not specifically restrict the right to vote based on the voters race was constitutional.
Of course, under our modern jurisprudence, that second belief is false: a law enacted with the clear intent to discriminate is hard to sustain under the Equal Protection Clause. However, Virginia, like Florida, has revised its state constitution since the offending provisions were enacted.
But is a (2005 11th Circuit ) test with such a low burden for the state really appropriate where the law was so thoroughly tainted at the outset?
While the 11th Circuit granted additional leeway to Florida where the intent behind their arguably discriminatory law was unclear, I believe the evidence from Virginia justifies a much more searching inquiry, and a much higher level of scrutiny than the 11th Circuit endorsed for Florida in Johnson. The greater the evidence of a law being used to intentionally and willfully discriminate, the greater the burden a state should face in keeping it on the books."
J.R. Lentini is a student at Georgetown University Law Center.
http://electls.blogs.wm.edu/2009/12/04/discriminatory-disenfranchisement-in-virginia