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FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:26 PM Jun 2012

Blue Man Group School Scrutinized As Parents Say Kids Can't Read

The $32,000 per-year progressive school founded by the Blue Man Group has come under scrutiny by parents, who claim their kids are barely learning to read, the New York Post reports.

The Blue School, a private school located in New York City's Financial District, has no books and no tests and is facing an exodus of students and teachers.

One mother complained to the Post that the school is “unstructured.” She is pulling her son at the end of the school year, as are the parents of four of her son’s first-grade classmates. Parents also claim that their children are not prepared to take tests and are bored with nothing to do in school.

...

According to the Post, school officials say students decide their own curriculum and have no predetermined arrival time. Currently, the school includes grades K-3, and a fourth grade is being added next year.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/blue-man-group-school-scr_n_1594496.html

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Blue Man Group School Scrutinized As Parents Say Kids Can't Read (Original Post) FarCenter Jun 2012 OP
Is Tobias Funke on the faculty? Tom Ripley Jun 2012 #1
He may have helped start it FarCenter Jun 2012 #6
There really has got to be a better way to say that. Initech Jun 2012 #35
Parents able to pay $32,000/year elleng Jun 2012 #2
Some parents initially think that a democratic school is a great idea but Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #8
'Initially' just don't do it; elleng Jun 2012 #9
So, you're involved with a democratic school? Becuase I have... Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #12
Daughters attended a 'progressive' school in DC, pre-K - 3rd grades, elleng Jun 2012 #14
And Lowell is a test based school. If these parents were surprised that there would be Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #15
Not exactly 'test-based,' imo. elleng Jun 2012 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #18
You know, the more research that I do, the more it sounds like Lowell... Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #19
The more 'what' sounds like Lowell? elleng Jun 2012 #21
The Blue School. It's structure and approach is more aligned with Lowell than Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #23
I understand. elleng Jun 2012 #24
Lowell appears to have a curriculum FarCenter Jun 2012 #31
Yes? elleng Jun 2012 #33
Some things you can't just self-teach 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #28
Do they have any job openings? undeterred Jun 2012 #3
I've known several dozen kids who have gone through this kind of education model.. Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #7
How did it work out for them? FarCenter Jun 2012 #10
Extraordinarily well. I'll give you a for instance... Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #13
I was wondering more about high school, higher ed, and occupational success FarCenter Jun 2012 #32
The schools that I am familiar with go all of the way through high school. Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #37
Sounds like a liberal arts degree for everybody! snooper2 Jun 2012 #34
You'd think that children would avoid challenges & difficult subjects but you'd be wrong. Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #36
And illiterate it would seem. 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #29
should 2nd grade be as avant garde as a Blue Man performance?? lunasun Jun 2012 #4
The democratic school model has existed for decades... Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #5
Reminds me of Summerhill aikoaiko Jun 2012 #11
In the U.S., it is the Sudbury school model and it does work. Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #20
Ridiculous, kids need structure & motivation. This is basically a $32,000/yr daycare center. FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #16
No evidence whatsoever that the kids have neither structure or motivation. Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #22
A fool and his money Frank Cannon Jun 2012 #25
+1 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #30
I went to a progressive school and sent my daughter. This is a NYPost article fer crying out loud! Happyhippychick Jun 2012 #26
My little piece of Blue Man "art" aikoaiko Jun 2012 #27
 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
6. He may have helped start it
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:49 PM
Jun 2012
The Blue School was originally founded as a play group by members of the theater troupe and their wives in 2006. It received its independent-school charter in 2009. The founders reportedly started the school so they could send their own children to a school that was creative enough for them. A letter from co-founder Matt Goldman on the school’s website describes the institution as a “healthy, warm, safe, nurturing environment where community is paramount and where children’s interactions between classes is just as important as what happens during classes.”

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
8. Some parents initially think that a democratic school is a great idea but
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:56 PM
Jun 2012

then freak out when their kids are being educated in an anti-authoritarian environment. They have absolutely no experience in how to trust their own intelligence and progress without "testing", let alone their child's.

elleng

(131,061 posts)
9. 'Initially' just don't do it;
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:04 PM
Jun 2012

we spend TIME observing how the school operates, what happens in the classrooms, and 'open house' is more than just open the doors.

Testing is not required for a good education, nor is authoritarianism; good judgment on the part of parents and school IS.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
12. So, you're involved with a democratic school? Becuase I have...
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:18 PM
Jun 2012

and many parents can't handle it. They have no cultural or social basis to judge the environment or their kid's progress. A parent will feel social pressure that their kid should be reading at this age or that age without seeing the other important skills that the kid is acquiring.

In the democratic schools that I am familiar with, there is quite a bit of exodus in the first few years because parents panic with the unfamiliar. (And a lot of "problem" kid dumping during the teenage years.) One of the problems that I see with this school is, because it is only grades 1 to 3, is that parents are not experiencing interactions with older students who have thrived in this environment.

elleng

(131,061 posts)
14. Daughters attended a 'progressive' school in DC, pre-K - 3rd grades,
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:14 AM
Jun 2012

and we had time to observe students thriving. Not 'democratic,' but easy-going, student-centered, based on Piaget, Ginott, etc.

Lowell has since added grades. Daughters worked/taught/counseled in summer camp/programs for years.

http://www.lowellschool.org/

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
15. And Lowell is a test based school. If these parents were surprised that there would be
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:23 AM
Jun 2012

no testing and learning would be self-directed, then they were idiots.

elleng

(131,061 posts)
17. Not exactly 'test-based,' imo.
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:52 AM
Jun 2012

I don't recall one test. Teachers wrote great, thorough and complete explanations of students' work.

Response to elleng (Reply #17)

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
19. You know, the more research that I do, the more it sounds like Lowell...
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:13 AM
Jun 2012

The origin of the HuffPo article comes from the right wing rag NY Post.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
23. The Blue School. It's structure and approach is more aligned with Lowell than
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:28 AM
Jun 2012

with a democratic school. And both Lowell and the Blue School seem to have solid child-centric education goals. It doesn't surprise me that the right wing NY Post would feature, in a tabloid manner, a way to discredit a progressive school. And I've no doubt that there are some parents unhappy. That is going to happen with any educational system.

elleng

(131,061 posts)
24. I understand.
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:38 AM
Jun 2012

Will have to read more about Blue School.

GREAT thing about Lowell - kids learned to read by WRITING, their own 'stories' and books, which were then 'bound' and kept in library!. We probably still have ours. They wrote their experiences. Was REALLY fun to watch. AND, MATH = halloween, sorting and classifying the candies they received! I recall sitting on living room floor 'helping' with that.

I don't recall any families leaving for the reasons mentioned in Post.

ONE of the Lowell parents - Linda Darling-Hammond! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Darling-Hammond

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
28. Some things you can't just self-teach
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:51 AM
Jun 2012

reading for instance.

That requires someone telling you what each letter is, what it sounds like, how it forms a word and you memorizing all that.

Authoritarian in other words.

You can't just declare that some letter means something to you and then run with it.

undeterred

(34,658 posts)
3. Do they have any job openings?
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:38 PM
Jun 2012

I would like to decide what I do each day and have no predetermined arrival time.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
7. I've known several dozen kids who have gone through this kind of education model..
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:51 PM
Jun 2012

It facilitates children to be self-motivated and independent. The kids not only shape their own education but, democratically, decide how the school is run.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
13. Extraordinarily well. I'll give you a for instance...
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:35 PM
Jun 2012

My nephew's school needed a wiring upgrade, a field that he was interested in, somewhere around age 9-11 he decided to make it happen (that is what kids do in a democratic school). So with the teachers assistance, he researched the schools needs. On his own, he contacted contractors and got estimates. With outside assistance (which the school facilitates) he worked up a budget and presented it in front of the school's monthly budget meeting for a vote of acceptance.

By the way, my nephew did not proficiently read until age 9. He was self motivated to do so because he wanted to be able to read architects notes on diagrams.

This is THE standard for a democratic school.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
37. The schools that I am familiar with go all of the way through high school.
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 06:27 PM
Jun 2012

In order to graduate, the student must present a thesis. An acceptable thesis will take 1-2 years to complete. 90% of the students go on to university and from my limited experience, they do well. Most likely because they are accustomed to working confidently and independently.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
34. Sounds like a liberal arts degree for everybody!
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 04:10 PM
Jun 2012

except you don't have to learn the basics, unless you want to...


I guess there are enough people in this country where some fringe groups can have their science experiments

Let's see how these kids are doing in 20 years....

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
36. You'd think that children would avoid challenges & difficult subjects but you'd be wrong.
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 06:15 PM
Jun 2012

Have you been to a democratic school? Have you met people who've been to one?

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
4. should 2nd grade be as avant garde as a Blue Man performance??
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:47 PM
Jun 2012

32K to crack eggs on their head - hefty

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
5. The democratic school model has existed for decades...
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:48 PM
Jun 2012

Last edited Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:37 PM - Edit history (1)

And yes, there are no tests but there are resources and books galore but not, "by committee" approved text books. Certainly these parents knew that going in. The school is, by design unstructured in the sense of a top down structure and there is zero test taking.

It the parents were expecting a test based education, then they were idiots.

http://blueschool.org/overview

aikoaiko

(34,183 posts)
11. Reminds me of Summerhill
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:13 PM
Jun 2012

It was always difficult for me to believe that it would work in the US (or virtually anywhere).

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
22. No evidence whatsoever that the kids have neither structure or motivation.
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:17 AM
Jun 2012

Just not the structure or motivation that you are accustomed to.

Frank Cannon

(7,570 posts)
25. A fool and his money
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 03:12 AM
Jun 2012

Maybe when these kids get older, their parents can send them to Carrot Top University.

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
30. +1
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:54 AM
Jun 2012

Although for 32,000 dollars a pop I wouldn't mind telling a class full of kids that they are wonderful special beings of light while they run around and hit each other with their chairs.

Let's see, you could probably stick 15-20 kids per classroom. That's 480,000 - 640,000. Maybe some of that has to go towards rent, insurance, and the like but that should still leave me taking home at least 200k per year. To do nothing. I could live with that.

aikoaiko

(34,183 posts)
27. My little piece of Blue Man "art"
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 10:08 AM
Jun 2012

I saw the Blue Man group in Boston in 1995 and during that version of their show they did is a funny skit where one blue man throws differently colored paint balls into the mouth of another blue man who spews the paint onto a rotating canvas. He throws marshmallows to the other.

Well after the show we talking with the crew and I asked for the painting. I offered $25 for it. They said sure and each of the blue men signed it by kissing it with their blue lips. It hangs in my sons bedroom now.

For those who saw that show you know why I didn't ask for the marshmallow art.

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