a lot of journalists are working with. Last night, Lawrence O'Donnell asked why is Manafort working for the campaign for free?

Manafort is a guy who under any normal circumstance would NOT work for free. It's not like Trump is so f*cking inspiring a candidate that he just had to get on board with that dream candidate. And he's definitely getting paid by SOMEONE, so who is it?

It's amazing how blatant they're willing to be. Trump has plenty of money (he hasn't spent a dime on ads so far this campaign) - why wouldn't they just put Manafort on the payroll to avoid the bad optics? I know Trump is dumb as a bag of hair, but Manafort's not. He's like Trump's own Cheney - except he's not working on Trump's behalf, he's working on Putin's.

To the campaign and presses for a truthful answer.

that was between the campaign and Manafort.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512367666

I think it is also important to note that the Trump campaign, in addition to possibly aiding Russia with its questioning of NATO, changing the party platform regarding Ukraine, and causing concern in the Baltic States, the campaign is also engaging in activities that could destabilize the U.S. Specifically, the constant harping that the only way Trump could lose is through fraud or if the elections are "rigged", thus undermining the validity of the election outcome. His thinly veiled call for armed insurrection if Clinton is elected to stop her from appointing Supreme Court Justices. Russia would like nothing more that to see a bunch of armed yahoos roaming the streets of the U.S. "taking their country back."

I didn't realize he was working for free until O'Donnell said it. This is getting very interesting.

borrowing from Russia, but borrowing from and not repaying the not-so-ex-mobster oligarchs might be just as problematic. That he could have been allowed to get in debt deliberately is not an outlandish speculation either.

I've been wondering all along if he met his 3 or more staffers with connections to the Kremlin "innocently" through business or if the Kremlin arranged for them to meet. That they got the GOP platform changed to be in line with, instead of obstructing, Putin's goals for takeover of a sovereign nation is huge, even if it's not discussed every day as it should be.

a Tom Clancy novel, but more far-fetched. Trump is starting to look like Putin's patsy and apparently Trump has dragged his children into this mess.

Putin has quite a criminal history with connections to Russia's mob bosses. There have been criminal investigations, but with Putin as president, those investigations can't move forward. It is obvious that Putin is not going to let go of his position as then he will lose his immunity from prosecution. There was a Frontline episode about Putin on PBS a while back and he is basically just a crook with political power.

prosecution for previous crimes if he loses power. He's apparently very (rather horrifyingly) popular, in spite of economic problems, though, so best guess is he's probably not going to jail any time soon. As long as he keeps the major power blocs on his side. Too bad.

criminal investigations against him that can't go forward while he's president until I looked it up. I had heard about his very criminal past before. This certainly puts an interesting twist to his political story.

And neither can be charged with a crime as long as they buy/steal/cheat/murder their way into the top office.

Love me some world-wide soap opera, but I'm thinking this is not just for the entertainment.

bizarre world, interesting to contemplate, but not a world we'd care to live in.

You just know there have to be some juicy details and more scandals coming.

authors out there already doing research and making outlines. Then come the TV and theatrical movies. I'd better catch up on my reading now, so I'll have time for the tell-all books!

That'll be the name of the movie they make when this is all over.

Putin will probably get a big kick out of it too.

You know he'd have to sue someone!

And glad to hear that O'Donnell is asking it too.

Usually my wishes don't come true that quickly.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512366115

everyone else.
he doesn't pay anyone.
And the only way he can do it if he becomes president and is protected by the Secret Service.
Otherwise it's a polonium colonic for him when he deadbeats on them

Interesting to speculate, but irrelevant (to me). Manafort is a disgrace. He's a revolting example of things that are wrong in THIS COUNTRY re "lobbying".

Someone here said that he should be charged under FARA. That he hasn't been, speaks clearly to needed reforms and deep corruption.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act

He's apparently filed FARA paperwork in the past, but not as recently as the payments were supposedly made according to the ledger.

Why would Manafort be working for free, though? Surely he's getting paid by SOMEBODY?

So who's footing the bill?

Certainly adds weight to your theory.

That said the reason Trump picked Manafort over the Lewandoski guy, during a campaign shakeup, was because Manafort was working for free.

It now seems that that was not the only reason Manafort was kept on staff.

And I'm sure he would never lie.

I posed it Monday morning here, based on months old reports in various articles. So the info has been around for a while.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512366115

But you were absolutely right!

but all those old reports had just skipped over the critical detail -- working for free -- like it made sense.

Last night on MSNBC the campaign surrogate refused to discuss the issue, saying it was between the campaign and Manafort.

Here are reports that I posted about before:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512366115

It's not even an exaggeration either that he worked for terrible people. Something is seriously wrong with that man.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-paul-manafort-20160812-snap-story.html

Ferdinand Marcos??

Jonas Savimbi???

1990s
In January 1990 and again in February 1990, Savimbi was wounded in armed conflict with Angolan government troops. The injuries did not prevent him from again returning to Washington, where he met with his American supporters and President Bush in an effort to further increase US military assistance to UNITA.[18] Savimbi's supporters warned that continued Soviet support for the MPLA was threatening broader global collaboration between Gorbachev and the US.[19]

In February 1992, Antonio da Costa Fernandes and Nzau Puna defected from UNITA, declaring publicly that Savimbi was not interested in a political test, but on preparing another war.[6] Under military pressure from UNITA, the Angolan government negotiated a cease-fire with Savimbi, and Savimbi ran for president in the national elections of 1992. Foreign monitors claimed the election to be fair. But because neither Savimbi (40%) nor Angolan President José Eduardo dos Santos (49%) obtained the 50 percent necessary to prevail, a run-off election was scheduled.[20]

In late October 1992, Savimbi dispatched UNITA Vice President Jeremias Chitunda and UNITA senior advisor Elias Salupeto Pena to Luanda to negotiate the details of the run-off election. On 2 November 1992 in Luanda, Chitunda and Pena's convoy was attacked by government forces and they were both pulled from their car and shot dead. Their bodies were taken by government authorities and never seen again.[21] The MPLA offensive against UNITA and the FNLA has come to be known as the Halloween Massacre where over 10,000 of their voters were massacred nationwide by MPLA forces.[22][23][24][25] Alleging governmental electoral fraud and questioning the government's commitment to peace, Savimbi withdrew from the run-off election and resumed fighting, mostly with foreign funds. UNITA again quickly advanced militarily, encircling the nation's capital of Luanda.[26]

In 1994, UNITA signed a new peace accord. Savimbi declined the vice-presidency that was offered to him and again renewed fighting in 1998. Savimbi also reportedly purged some of those within UNITA whom he may have seen as threats to his leadership or as questioning his strategic course. Savimbi's foreign secretary Tito Chingunji and his family were murdered in 1991 after Savimbi suspected that Chingunji had been in secret, unapproved negotiations with the Angolan government during Chingunji's various diplomatic assignments in Europe and the United States. Savimbi denied his involvement in the Chingunji killing and blamed it on UNITA dissidents.[14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_Savimbi

If there has been some threat of violence, explicit or implied. Then what about Ivanka's jaunt to eastern Europe with Putin's alleged girlfriend? Is this a threat to keep Trump in the race?

Donald is so fucking stupid. I'd like to know her pre-Trump connections.

I'm talking about his daughter who is on vacation in Croatia with Wendi Deng Murdoch (ex-wife of Rupert Murdoch) who is purportedly Putin's squeeze.

but Ivanka could STILL be part of the big picture


(There is not enough tin foil in the WORLD)

If he had ever made any sacrifices...he said YES...he works hard and hires people. What kind of parent would equate hard work with losing a child????? NOTHING compares to losing a child!!! He is a sociopath, incapable of feeling anything...apparently including love for his children.

So...he probably gave them Ivanka instead of money. Why would she go on vacation with a 4 month baby at home. (Easy answer...she's a Trump!)

with all the suspicion about Trump's pro-Putin ties running rampant in the media already, even before the Manafort story.

Putin's girlfriend is the ex-wife of Rupert Murdoch. She is also a family friend of Trump's family and she introduced Ivanka and her husband.

So... let's review. Ivanka, who is her father's closest confidant, is besties with Putin's girlfriend.
If you are Vlad, who needs Manafort, when your girlfriend has the candidate's ear and complete confidence?

Also... Ivanka leaves her four month old baby to go on meet Putin's squeeze for a vacation in the middle of the election? WHY?

Are the Russians being high-rollers here, putting some money down on the one-in-a-million chance that Trump wins?

Or do they have a different plan that relies less on luck?

are on this like white on rice. To think that our government could be infiltrated by the likes of a moron like Trump, with Russian connections ... well, that IS pretty fucking scary. What if Trump had been less outrageous, more mainstream?

This is a global problem - Russia wants territory. The only reason Putin hasn't invaded ALL the Baltic States is the threat of the US in the form of NATO. If Trump destabilizes those relationships, we could see war in Europe. With nukes on the board this time. That is not an idle speculation - national and international security experts have been talking about this all along. This is not a remote problem either - it will be our military stuck in the middle.

Unless the Repubs tell the Feds it is ok to go after their candidate. Repubs seem so untouchable.

Biden was talking yesterday about going over there to calm down the Baltic States who are now fearful we will not back them up if Russia invades. All of this is adding to the general destabilizing of Europe and the rise of hard-right nationalist parties (Brexit was a symptom of this disease), which is exactly what Putin wants.

...overlook the fact that he's won a lot of marbles already.

What if the Russians hack the election and it appears that Trump has won even though Hillary is leading in the polls by 10 or more points? Who will keep the peace?

This will not be the Brooks Brothers revolution! This will be martial law with a four -four divided Supreme Court.

It's not a crazy theory at all. Something stinks to high heaven.

the ledger, the unreleased tax returns, and Manafort not getting paid by the Trump campaign - it's all extremely suspicious.

Who you have borrowed money from or how much you owe are neither one on your taxes.

This idea that him releasing his taxes is going to give us any insight into who he is beholden to is such uneducated ignorant trash.

You sound very Trumpian.

Sorry you were the post that finally got me to comment on it.

Some loans do have tax consequences; depending how they are structured they can be regarded as a sale; if unpaid they can be taxable as income.

And debts aren't line-items on your taxes.

And who knows how the loans Trump may have gotten from Russia were documented? Since Trump is (apparently) always audited, he has to be careful about how he characterizes any kind of transaction, regardless of the source. There probably wouldn't be explicit documentation of these loans, but there could be evidence that could be followed up on, as one expert explains:

just as soon as that audit is over...an audit of which he refuses to provide proof.

I bet there are multiple bombshells in those tax returns.

He is raising large sums of money, yet he has not purchased any TV ads. He has not opened any campaign offices in many key areas and has said that he does not need to mount an effort to get people to vote.

So if he is raising money and not spending, what is his plan?

Now put that together with your borrowing from Russia, maybe he needs to do this to raise money to pay them off or they will take Melania back or something bigger.

But then as you say, they may just be owning him.

standard operating procedure..

declare bankruptcy and pocket it

It can't be used personally.

He thinks Trump will spin off into a "trump channel" type of thing after the election.

I can see where he would keep all the money he is raising now, pay his loans off with interest to turn his buck out of the gates.

Then use the remainder of his campaign money (these people can keep their money for a LONG time in their "campaign" and use it for a lot of other things politically related), then use it to fund the start up of the "trump party" or wtf it will be, then build in his platform to be able to make money from it personally.

(as speculated on DU) but I can absolutely believe he would run for president to pay off a debt and save his own ass. It doesn't need to be monetary payment, either - as I said above, if he can destabilize the Baltic region enough, Putin might forgive the debts in lieu of territory.

Trump is non-patriotic except he prefers to be paid in American dollars!

Much of the money paid to vendors and to companies to rent venues is paid to Trump's own shell companies.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/6/21/1540967/-All-in-the-family-Trump-campaign-pays-Trump-comanies-6-million

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/06/21/donald-trump-campaign-money/

The money given to the campaign can't be used by the candidate personally.

Personally, I think that is the deal.

what the kids are thinking. They are young, living the good life, have lots of kids each. They cannot believe the bullshit the old man is spewing. Why would they keep supporting and enabling this idiocy? But if their lives are threatened, or their livelihoods, I guess that would keep you standing around with a faraway look on your face. And isn't that just what we've seen now for months from this bunch?

to bail him out? They get nothing if this doesn't work, so they play their parts.

There would be Trump, some oligarchs/mobsters and some off-shore account to launder the money. That's it.

After he defaults, a handler like Manafort gets added to the picture, plus some people already working for russian intelligence and propaganda-units.

This whole operation can actually be run pretty tight.

Whatever your message may be, I believe your first sentence is wrong.
4 -6 bankruptcies is 4-6 too many and that alone should prove to the American people that he should not be near the Oval Office.

Since I don't think he is a very deep thinker. He needs to win in order to get Secret Service protection for the rest of his life. If he's in deep to these guys, that may be his "get out of jail free" card.

Putin is ex KGB, and nothing, and I mean nothing is outside the realm of possibility with him. I've never trusted him even when Bushy looked into his eyes and saw is soul. He saw nothing but darkness because Putin has no soul.

but it not only seems possible, it seems probable. Trump has shown no knowledge or interest in any global affairs and probably couldn't locate Ukraine on a globe if you spotted him the longitude and latitude. Yet suddenly he has an unpaid Putin puppet on his staff, neither he nor the puppet will show their finances, and Trump has spent the last several months following Putin around so closely that if the bare-breasted bear wrestler stopped short, Trump would be neck deep in his last borscht meal. Yeah, I'd say it's likely.

and sell them to Gazprom

Debts forgiven

Trump started the birther movement. He started these bizarre conspiracy theories. As they say, follow the money. His campaign manager listed getting millions from a stooge of Putins. The removal of support for Ukraine in the platform. DJT Jr say a disproportionate amount of funding from Russia. WTF?

He is most certainly being bought by The Putin n Crime Family. Everyone makes great points in their s thread, butt the one that worries me is the hacking of the election and the aftermath even if it is caught.
Moneypenny, Get me Bond on the phone.

From everything you've laid out in your post, to Trump's obvious adoration of Putin and Russia (he's wanted to build a luxury hotel in Moscow for a long time); plus two of his wives are from Eastern Europe...and his obvious racism....

Nope, not crazy at all.

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

And:

delusional and believe you're omnipotent, as fRump certainly does.

The tough part is nailing down the evidence of intent.

It would be wonderful if there were a smoking gun, but I think enough pointed insinuations (backed up by evidence) can be made in the media to turn more people off to this totally unfit candidate. His base will stick with him no matter if he eats babies onstage, but moderate Republicans and Independents won't be able to bring themselves to vote for a candidate that seems by all accounts to be owned by Russia.

when he loses, but he gets the $$ anyway.

It could be as simple as telling himself "Look what a deal I made! I got so much money and I won't even have to give it back or give him anything in return. I can wheel and deal these countries and they can't even come after me! Yippee!"

It makes his drone speeches make sense, too. He not only wants to lose, HE NEEDS TO LOSE.

Makes our side appear to be donning our tin foil hats but dayum...the dots connect like a movie script.

MANAFORT working for free? What can that possibly be about?

The optics of Ivanka in Croatia when America knows she's got a new born baby at home....jeez, your father is running to be the leader of America. At least pretend to be about flags and motherhood and apple pie. That's the language your base speaks in for crying out loud!

How can they possibly not understand why he's losing?

by the GOP's scolding. He's playing both for his own gain.

There had to be someone in the GOP who knew he was doing this.

Are you sure about that?

so you're not alone.

It's not so strange when you consider that Trump often looks like he's trying to sabotage his chances...maybe he wants an out.

Trump "I'll tweet you the nuclear codes"

Remember the repug platform took a different stance on arming Ukraine, which the maggot & Manafort denied having anything to do with.

The deranged imbecile is truly dangerous!!!!!

that once Deutsche Bank started to dry up, he did go shopping in Russia. I can't speculate how much paper he's kited in Russia, but I do know that Manafort is very likely an enforcer, he certainly looks the part and his past history would seem to confirm it.

I just wonder how desperate his financial situation is that he had to go into hock to Russia.

I just hope there are enough of us to keep this disaster out of office.

He lives on credit. There's no way this con artist is going to release his taxes.

If he can't pay in dollars, he MUST pay in services.

So they own him and will own the White House, figuratively speaking.

Another Hitler-Stalin-esque deal.

Because this is exactly what I think too, and I know I'm sane.

You don't snare a victim by telling them up front that you "own them". You keep getting them (through third parties) to make little services and pecadillos and tiny crimes, building them up and increasing the severity as you tighten the screws.

of free market fundamentalist capitalism.

When globalists commodify, the values and welfare of huge swaths of people become irrelevant.

So yep. I believe Trump is a tool of economic hit men who learned from the best -- our economic hit men.

His own for 2.

Putin's people are smart enough to know Hillary has this

How much influence/information can they get from an about-to-be loser?

Trump isn't some kind of genius-- he's just well positioned and entirely self unaware. Intentionally not self aware. So I imagine him less of the puppet master, and more of the puppet.

He's always acting in self interest and not very concerned with appearances, morals, or other external considerations. So where we see negatives to Manafort he sees positives. I can imagine him saying "He's worked with the Hugest Names, like Marcos".

As far as the Russians are concerned, I think he confuses sincerity with flattery ("Putin said I was a genius&quot .

So, no. Maybe? But incompetence isn't a conspiracy, and mutual interests aren't collusion.

about Manafort. Unfortunately, the story doesn't seem to be getting a lot of attention. It's shameful.

I find it interesting that two-thirds of Trump's wives were born in communist countries - Ivana was born in Czechoslovakia, which was part of the Warsaw Pact, and Melania was born in Yugoslavia.

But that doesn't mean your not crazy

Bookmarking.

It seems clear that the instability he could potentially (and, in fact, did) create with that process would be appealing to Putin.