A brave new world indeed...

Even in the muslim community, the Burka is widely seen as over-the-top and a tool of patriarchial oppression.

And the problem with many muslim communities in Europe is that they form parallel societies with their own culture, norms and customs. Look at Belgium for example. They have islamic terrorists there because the Muslims and the rest of society are barely connected.

Banning the Burkini is not about what women are to wear at the beach. It's about what they are NOT to wear: A piece of clothing that symbolizes a culture that is completely at odds with the rest of society. Banning the Burkini can be seen as similar to laws against sexual harassment in the workplace: Banning the Burkini means undoing the normalization that it's men who decide what life is like for women.

Banning the Burkini is a fight against the concept that muslim women are supposed to cover up.

over the top and a tool of patriarchy, why are they still so common. I'd also like to point out that we've had two terrorists that say they were inspired by isis killing people right here in the US (San Bernadino and Orlando) so the excuse that the separation of societies is to blame rings hollow.

where gangs of religious vigilantes with clubs hit women they think are showing too much skin or body. Still, the full face veil is considered over the top and is defended mostly by the women as a way to keep their skin youthful in the desert sun.

Here I see women moving from the full body veil to the hijab and eventually to no head covering for a few of them.

here in NYC - upper east side on Madison Avenue and it was so startling to see, I couldn't help but stare (and I wasn't alone). Hijabs are much more common and don't get noticed. My only experience with a burqa was in Amman (we stopped briefly for something to eat on our way to Petra). That was like a kick in the gut but the women I saw there ran the gamut from no hijab or anything to one full burqa. I've never seen a burkini in person.

Few people here react to the hijab, either, probably because so many desert immigrants gravitate to the southwestern part of the country.

Forcing one to wear an item of clothing seems no more nor no less oppressive than denying one to wear an item of clothing... all rationalizations aside.

The custom of forcing a woman to cover lest a man be tempted to sin makes a woman responsible for an act she did not instigate and absolves the man of his responsibility for his own conduct.

It's not the burka that is the threat, it's the underlying assumptions of moral responsibility.

Banning the burka does nothing to alleviate this problem, it just deepens cultural schisms.

that any woman who IS being controlled by her father/husband/brother/son will now never be able to go to the beach. I hate the fucking things but banning them does nothing to solve the real problem. That's why I liked this piece - it puts the onus on the men where it belongs.

Forbidding a single item of clothing amongst thousands of potentials and leaving mostly free choice in the wake, is nowhere near the same thing as compelling someone to limit themselves to a single item of clothing, amongst thousands of potentials, which leaves NO choice.

While both could be considered "oppressive", they aren't even in the same ballpark.

and bad if you dont. Got it.

There are women I know who choose to cover. I know because I've spoken with them - and in one instance, their family, and because each woman in the family I've spoken with has made different (and independent) choices about covering or not - and different choices at different times in their lives. I'm sure I have not encountered the only Muslim women in the world who make their own choices about clothing - and who have chosen to cover.

When it is freely chosen, it is not different only in degree from the choice Western women make all of the time to wear a string bikini versus a modest-cut one piece swimsuit.

Just because some women are forced by law or familial/societal peer pressure to wear a particular garment does not give anyone the moral right to enforce a different choice on those same women. They should be supported in making their own choices, whether we agree with choices or not.

Women who choose to cover or those who are forced to cover? I think that's what bothers so many people - that ANY women are being forced to cover up for "modesty" reasons so laws like outlawing burkinis that are trying to help could actually do the opposite.

By the suggestion that I lack the control to keep my genitals stowed away based on a woman's clothing. Maybe my penis is underpowered, but it's never been an issue that it just went leaping out of my pants.

Just entirely fucking hypocritical to put the onus on what women wear being responsible for a man's behavior. Men should be responsible for their own behavior and if they can't control themselves, lock their asses up.

You'd be surprised that even Martha Washington was restricted on what freedoms she had, even though he husband was president.

it's not just their husbands. It's their fathers, brothers and even sons who control the women. It's nauseating.

And tell the people obsessed with telling other people what to do, what to do.