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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
Thu Aug 25, 2016, 03:37 PM Aug 2016

Opposition to the TPP is not the same thing as being "anti-trade".

In and of itself, there is nothing wrong with trade. We're ALL for trade. Nobody is arguing that we shouldn't try to sell American goods in any other country.

What those of us who oppose the TPP are saying is that we can have trade with other countries without giving corporations a veto over labor laws, consumer protection laws, environmental laws and the level of social and educational spending countries are allowed to have.

There is no reason why we can't have trade WITHOUT putting the interests of corporations above national sovereignty and the ability of the non-wealthy and the non-whites to defend their rights against the demands made by "market values".

It doesn't have to be trade OR justice.

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Opposition to the TPP is not the same thing as being "anti-trade". (Original Post) Ken Burch Aug 2016 OP
K&R. (nm) Elwood P Dowd Aug 2016 #1
Agree Go Vols Aug 2016 #2
A true FDR view of trade. Thank you. Trade with enforceable rules on labor, the environment, pampango Aug 2016 #3
And will be enforced zipplewrath Aug 2016 #6
I certainly agree. If governments will not enforce standards, non-governmental organizations - pampango Aug 2016 #7
fear not, the multi-national corporations who wrote TPP with have protections...for them nt msongs Aug 2016 #14
Yep! Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2016 #4
I don't disagree, but... Adrahil Aug 2016 #5
Do a DU Google Search using "cali TPP" Stubborn Aug 2016 #9
Some people are... Adrahil Aug 2016 #13
Hi. I haven't posted here in a long time. mmonk Aug 2016 #8
You never loved Trade! Iggo Aug 2016 #10
Well, I did tell it "baby, baby, don't get hooked on me". Ken Burch Aug 2016 #12
K&R CharlotteVale Aug 2016 #11

pampango

(24,692 posts)
3. A true FDR view of trade. Thank you. Trade with enforceable rules on labor, the environment,
Thu Aug 25, 2016, 04:14 PM
Aug 2016

business regulation, consumer protection, etc.

Of course, we have to deal with republicans who seem to oppose all efforts to add those standards to trade agreements - from FDR's agreement to Obama's. That never seems to change.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
6. And will be enforced
Thu Aug 25, 2016, 04:35 PM
Aug 2016

We've had protection provisions in other trade agreements. But when it came time to enforce them, the State Department takes a pass, especially on labor and environmental clauses. There's no point in having enforcement provisions if we aren't going to use them.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
7. I certainly agree. If governments will not enforce standards, non-governmental organizations -
Thu Aug 25, 2016, 04:51 PM
Aug 2016

unions, environmental groups, consumer protection organizations, etc. - should be authorized to initiate enforcement actions (just like corporations can do). Of course that might alarm folks who think that national sovereignty trumps everything else and that national governments should not be subject to the decisions of international tribunals.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
5. I don't disagree, but...
Thu Aug 25, 2016, 04:25 PM
Aug 2016

In my experience, a lot of folks who oppose the TPP can;t name one thing about it they oppose other than it will "outsource jobs."

One guy I argued with tried to tell me that "all our jobs went to China, because of NAFTA."

I'm certainly in support of trade agreements that preserve labor rights, consumer protection, etc.

Keep in mine, however, that many of those clauses are directed at participants who have traditionally locked American products out of the market by passing "safety" laws directed at American goods. There has to be some mechanism to prevent that kind of thing.

mmonk

(52,589 posts)
8. Hi. I haven't posted here in a long time.
Thu Aug 25, 2016, 04:54 PM
Aug 2016

But you are exactly right. This isn't really a trade deal but more of an investment deal for multinational corporations. And if a country wanted to pass an environmental law to protect its people or a wage law or retirement law to help its citizens, the corporation can sue under an international tribunal for damages to "future" profits. It must be defeated. Hope you are doing well as well as others. Take care.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
12. Well, I did tell it "baby, baby, don't get hooked on me".
Thu Aug 25, 2016, 05:09 PM
Aug 2016

But that I was in a Mac Davis kind of place at the time.

Thank you for not getting all weepy and saying "Leave Trade Alone!"

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