Such incidents of rape are not unheard of, awful as they are. They are perpetrated by all sorts of men. I'm not seeing how being Algerian is particularly important.

Recent estimates show almost half a million Algerians living in France. That's not surprising, really, considering the country's history.

It is a horrible crime. The men who did it should be prosecuted. No question about that.

What if it is? Did their culture teach them they are entitled?

What do you think? Three individuals. Where they came from is irrelevant, frankly. So is their culture. One gang rape, out of how many that take place annually in France?

It's one incident. A despicable one, but just one. Again, I fail to see the relevance of their country of origin.

BTW, a lot of Algerian Catholics, Jews, and Protestants have fled from Algeria in the past few decades. Maybe those three men were part of those groups. We don't know, do we?

Sometimes, disgusting behavior is just disgusting behavior by those who carry it out. Sometimes, that is all it means.

I've got a suspicion...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Algeria

This one incident was one incident but seeing as we're witnessing mass assaults at concerts and New Years, etc. then one incident starts to look like a part of a pattern.

If that's inconvenient for you then examine your priorities.

Because there is no culture on this planet of size where the culture of men does not teach them that they are entitled.

Your culture produced the epidemic of campus rape. Not Algerians, and yet somehow just as entitled. Just as violent.

US.

In contrast to those who are constantly telling me to ignore mass sexual assaults.

I've said nothing of fraternities, and have no idea who "those" are pressuring you to ignore rape.

I KNOW you cannot demonstrate any point where I have advocated the dismissal of rape.

Then we're told to not notice.

this one incident? Please explain. Three men raped a woman. There certainly is a pattern of that happening. Everywhere on the planet. Beyond that, you'll have to explain.

but only if non-Islamic societies can be scolded.

Is that the sort of pattern from this one incident you were referring to?

Some cultures derivative of Islam fall into this category. They are not alone in this but we cannot hide our heads in the sand just because Islamic cultures are at fault.

Be specific, if you don't mind. Thanks.

awareness on your part? You were just paying lip service for recs?

That's pretty crappy, dude.

Happens everywhere.

it's a cultural norm and where women are expected to disregard their safety in the name of ideological agendas.

and we are foolish to ignore the pattern

If some DU members made a habit of creating threads every time a French-born citizen committed a heinous crime, some of us might get the impression that France is a violent and dangerous country.

We're getting selective threads here, based on crimes perpetrated by people from a particular country, region or religion. There is no making excuses for any of them, and you didn't MineralMan. But there is no reason to blow this out of proportion either, no matter what the rapists' ideology might be. It's about not condemning immigrants as a whole because of the disturbing actions of a relative few.

And they really hate dogs.

If people can't adapt to the culture they're in, and behave badly towards other humans, then they shouldn't be there.

This history is different even than many other former French colonies.

If three Americans had been arrested for the rape, I suspect that we'd see that in the headline, even though there are ~100K Americans living in France.

If someone in Nevada were raped by three men from South Carolina, the headline would likely include this detail as well.

I see your point that the nationality of the men is not relevant to the crime, and their nationality certainly didn't cause them to commit the crime, but is there a clear reason why that detail should be omitted?

Nothing more than their previous location, though, should be drawn from it, nor should any conclusion about the place they are from be drawn from it. That is not what is happening here, though, you see.

What conclusions do you draw from three men from Algeria raping a woman in France?

That they're from Algeria and they raped a woman in France.

What inference should I draw?

But then, I don't know what a local crime story in France has to do with DU, either.

Absent some prohibition against posting them, I don't have an issue with them.

Gang rapes happen everywhere. I don't remember these stories being posted on DU, though:

Alabama men found guilty in Spring Break gang rape case
http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/20160916/alabama-men-found-guilty-in-spring-break-gang-rape-case

She accused NBA star Derrick Rose of gang rape.
https://thinkprogress.org/derrick-rose-rape-accuser-speaks-7d7f6dab74be#.ous3w1u67

Muslim women ganged raped by Hindu gang 'for eating beef'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/muslim-women-india-cow-vigilante-gang-raped-beef-sacred-a7238071.html

Gang rape case of 9-year-old girl leads to additional charges
https://www.ksl.com/?sid=41376356&nid=148

Gang Rape Of Aid Workers In South Sudan Is A Turning Point
http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/08/23/491057541/gang-rape-of-aid-workers-in-south-sudan-is-a-turning-point

I don't consider myself the gatekeeper for General Discussion. If you feel that those stories are relevant and post-worthy, then post them.

Tower." My guess is the OP decided to highlight the fact that they were Algerian for the same reason that they decided to write about this particular gang rape and not other gang rapes done by non-Muslims. The "Hey I'm just posting the news!" excuse is a joke. Freepers do the exact same thing when they push their BS "black on white crime" narrative. It's interesting how similar the tactics of bigotry are (down to the "I guess it must be the Amish! /sarcasm" line that pops up in both groups).

Did you not read what I wrote?

The article clearly identifies the men as Algerian. Should this detail be omitted?

Also, you seem more upset at the fact that these men are identified as Algerian than at the fact that they raped a woman. Why?

Do you post about everything? Or do you post about some things? If the latter, then how in the world do you decide which stories to post and which to ignore? Should we infer bigoted intent from your choices?

If I could stand the winter I would seriously consider moving there.

But other than that, yeah, you're right.

Because ostriches.

We can't criticize a religion that throws gay people from rooftops or believes in "honor" killings of raped women.

Smh.

Something I'm sure you don't want to be?

Btw, have you been to Chelsea in NYC recently?

You hit the nail on the head.

But that won't be popular here.

When a culture sexually oppresses/represses people (women, hide under a full body cover, or at minimum, partly conceal your face), it makes for uncontrollable outbursts (rape)

Hence the disproportionately high percentage among rape offenders of people from Muslim culture countries like Algeria in host countries like Norway, Sweden, Germany, France, UK, etc

A very small one though.

But in older news:

Please point it out for me.

Alternatively, could I have been saying that sometimes people seem to specifically look for and post news items that confirm biases.

It is an implicit argument from privation. Pretty fucking despicable, man.

It's sickening.

Rape is a world wide problem. It even happens in the US.

Do you criticize all white males when a white male rapes a woman?

Probably not.

Comparing what the French did in Algeria to what the FLN themselves were committing is like comparing a toddler to Hannibal Lecter.

To put it differently, the frequent criminal violence of armies (rape, executions, limited torture) to the all out sadism of fanatics (live disembowelments and cutting of genitalia placed in the mouth of the corpses to name a few)

The Melouza massacre is something the FLN committed, and is unmatched by anything the French might have done. It was the wholesale massacre of an entire village, on the SS mode at Oradour.

(any of us) in doing the same thing today.

Not all refugees are meek and gentle or willing to espouse democratic ideals.

Last edited Thu Sep 22, 2016, 01:13 AM - Edit history (4)

They're so anxious to do a little virtue signalling and prove how enlightened they are, that they'll drop all concern for rape victims in a case like this, and go instead to labeling people bigots for noting a problem.

The fact is, if you're denying there's a serious problem with Islam and in Muslim communities in Europe, you're the kind of liberal who is empowering the far right there.

This is not 'one incident', as it was so callously and sickeningly shrugged off up thread. This is one more in a very long list of rapes and sexual assaults being committed by Muslims against European women in European countries, because they see women, and non-Muslim women in particular, as lesser beings, and legitimate targets. Saying there's rape everywhere and this is only highlighting the rape committed by Muslims is nonsense, because it's way off the scale in that one group.

This is happening regularly, and if all you can do is stick your fingers in your ears and babble 'Islamophobia' over and over, then voters will gravitate to the only people willing to talk about it. Ten years ago, Sweden's far right party was politically insignificant. Now they're the most popular party, specifically because of this sort of reaction from the left.

First of all, you make a claim that "Liberals" will rush to blame the woman and "you can see if (it) up-thread." I don't see any evidence of that at all. The message I'm getting from forum members here is that these accused men should be tried and, if found guilty, prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. So let's not try to misconstrue things.

Secondly, far right parties are rising in a number of European nations and it's disturbing, just as it's troubling that Donald Trump is making a run at POTUS. Does that make their politics palatable? Not even close.

And let's suppose that your premise is correct and there are higher crime rates among Muslims in Europe. What's your solution?
You gonna round 'em all up and ship 'em out?

How about in the U.S. where there's a disproportionately higher crime rate among African Americans? You would propose the same solution in America too? "Send them all back to where they came from?"

Sounds Trumpian to me.

As to "my solution", I don't know-- but marginalizing this brand of chickenshit virtue signalling seems like a good place to start.

condoning criminal actions committed by any group.

And I don't know the solution either, but I feel strongly that President Obama and Hillary Clinton have it right when they state that it begins with inclusion, not exclusion and further marginalization of Muslims who do not adhere to extremit ideology and tenets of Sharia law.

Even if you truly believe that keeping all refugees out is the best option, a repugnant position IMO, then what do you do about the 3 million+ Muslims already in the U.S., the 40 million+ Muslims in Europe and the 1 million+ Muslims in Canada? Are you one of those people who advocate profiling? Increased surveillance based on religion alone? Deportation of Muslims? How far are you going to let paranoia take things?

Inclusion shouldn't be done at a price that comes with a clash of cultural norms.

Take your feelings and strawman and shove it.

You make such a compelling argument! You must have been high school debate champion in addition to humanitarian of the year.

I've tried looking, but can't find anything apart from claims on RW sites.

Calling Mexicans rapists and saying Mexican immigration is a threat would get you banned. For some reason calling Muslim immigrants rapists and saying immigration from Muslim countries is a threat seems to be accepted. I guess some forms of bigotry are tolerated here.

And posting crime stories about a particular minority group in order to push the narrative that said group is a threat is pretty common among conservatives. Even the rhetoric about "multicultural liberals keeping their heads in the sand and not admitting the truth that members of [insert minority group] are violent and a threat to us is the same. As I said up thread, I've heard the "It was probably the Amish! /sarcasm" line used both to imply that African-Americans are inherently violent and to imply Muslims are inherently violent.

Meanwhile, hate crimes against Muslims in California have skyrocketed 122%. And there are people in this thread angry that we don't demonize Muslims more. And that mindset is considered acceptable.

And it's not just in California where hate crimes against Muslims have skyrocketed. It's in Europe too:


UK entering 'unchartered territory' of Islamophobia after Brexit vote

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-muslim-racism-hate-crime-islamophobia-eu-referendum-leave-latest-a7106326.html


Hate crimes against Muslims triple in France, minister says

http://www.dailysabah.com/europe/2016/01/21/hate-crimes-against-muslims-triple-in-france-minister-says


So, yeah, the xenophobic types feel comfortable spouting off about how Muslims are a danger to us all, but they don't care about all of the peaceful Muslims who are enduring pathetic treatment at the hands of rednecks who target them. And the media can only publicize the incidents that are reported or caught on camera. There are probably hundreds or thousands of encounters every day where Muslims in America and Europe are threatened, cursed at and told to "go home," that nobody ever hears about except the victims themselves.

I see this a lot from liberals...a game of moral one-upmanship in an attempt to boost their status amongst peers.

I see a lot of hard-working and extremely caring people who have worked to raise money for refugee sponsorships and also volunteered their time to help newcomers settle into their adopted country.

Glass half empty vs. glass half full.