General Discussion

OxQQme

(2,550 posts) Thu Sep 22, 2016, 04:00 PM Sep 2016

Edward Snowden is the perfect candidate for a presidential pardon

snip> Edward Snowden is the former National Security Agency contractor who risked his job, his prestige and his freedom to expose the NSA’s secret mass surveillance programs that trampled the privacy rights of Americans. For that, he has earned the gratitude of millions of Americans and the loathing of the security state. The Justice Department indicted him under the Espionage Act for revealing classified information. The State Department stripped him of his passport while he was in a Russian airport transit lounge, effectively exiling him to Russia. Now human rights organizations at home and abroad are joining to call on President Obama to pardon Snowden.

Even those who oppose a pardon acknowledge that, as Obama’s former attorney general Eric Holder said, if Snowden’s leak of classified information was “inappropriate and illegal,” the whistleblower had performed a “public service.”<

>"He didn’t “flee to Russia”; he was trapped there when the government stripped his passport. He didn’t have protected whistleblower avenues. He didn’t lie about his medical discharge from the military or his position as a NSA contractor. The House report accuses Snowden of causing “tremendous damage” to national security, but fails to offer a clue of what that damage might be.<

more:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/edward-snowden-is-the-perfect-candidate-for-a-presidential-pardon/2016/09/20/09c0bf80-7e9e-11e6-8d0c-fb6c00c90481_story.html?utm_term=.4e6ed9180cfc

23 replies

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Edward Snowden is the perfect candidate for a presidential pardon (Original Post) OxQQme Sep 2016 OP

In Exactly Whose Opinion? Me. Sep 2016 #1

"He didn’t 'flee to Russia'; he was trapped there" alcibiades_mystery Sep 2016 #2

He was trapped there with the stolen documents he had with him. #CONTEXT BobbyDrake Sep 2016 #20

The only possible way that the government's unconstitutional cpwm17 Sep 2016 #3

The American people disagree. Get over it. n/t Tarheel_Dem Sep 2016 #5

By popular vote we'd all be forced to pray to god at school. cpwm17 Sep 2016 #9

Your argument doesn't apply to Snowie. He had areas of redress, and opted not to use them. Tarheel_Dem Sep 2016 #11

He claimed to be against domestic spying and exposed international activities. BobbyDrake Sep 2016 #21

Do you deny he fled the country? Adrahil Sep 2016 #14

Give it up. Americans didn't flock to "Snowden: The Movie" because they think he's a traitorous.... Tarheel_Dem Sep 2016 #4

***Sigh*** Once again, for the record: Blue_Tires Sep 2016 #6

Thank you! I agree! And when I saw the previews of Snowden at the theater last week I just skylucy Sep 2016 #7

Look, Blue_Tires, if you're going to demand facts and evidence of Snowden-alia... randome Sep 2016 #12

Post removed Post removed Sep 2016 #8

Snowden has nothing to do with "liberal" Democrats. He's a fucking Libertarian who had no problem.. Tarheel_Dem Sep 2016 #10

Without Snowden... freebrew Sep 2016 #16

The Russians have taken over BlueInPhilly Sep 2016 #23

No. It should be Don Siegelman. trof Sep 2016 #13

Both. freebrew Sep 2016 #17

(1) A passport is not a prerequisite for travel: it merely simplifies travel struggle4progress Sep 2016 #15

That will not happen. MineralMan Sep 2016 #18

You forget, this place is almost as anti-Snowden as it is anti-Trump. VulgarPoet Sep 2016 #19

I prefer to think of us as pro-reality, not anti-Snowden. If he weren't such a liar... BobbyDrake Sep 2016 #22

Me.

(35,454 posts)

1. In Exactly Whose Opinion?

Reply to OxQQme (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 04:02 PM

Sep 2016

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)

2. "He didn’t 'flee to Russia'; he was trapped there"

Reply to OxQQme (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 04:08 PM

Sep 2016

Just passing through...

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)

20. He was trapped there with the stolen documents he had with him. #CONTEXT

Reply to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #2)

Fri Sep 23, 2016, 10:45 AM

Sep 2016

His passport was revoked because he was caught lying and stealing. He's not an innocent.

cpwm17

(3,829 posts)

3. The only possible way that the government's unconstitutional

Reply to OxQQme (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 04:31 PM

Sep 2016

activities could be exposed was for someone like Snowden to expose it as he did. There was no other avenue.

He was stuck in Russia because the US pulled his passport when he was there. That is history. Any other claim is dishonest.

The leaks sparked the greatest reform of the intelligence agencies since Watergate. As Cindy Cohn, executive director of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, observes, Snowden’s revelations led to the “first .?.?. legislation to rein in the NSA in over 30 years, reform of the secret [intelligence] court, and significant, long-overdue public releases of critical information by the government about its spying on innocent Americans as well as millions of others around the world.”...

Timothy Edgar, director of privacy and civil liberties in Obama’s own national security staff, concluded: “Snowden forced the NSA to become more transparent, more accountable, more protective of privacy — and more effective.” For this, Edgar says, “the U.S. government has reason to say, ‘Thank you, Mr. Snowden.’ ”...

Even in exile, Snowden has continued to serve the greater good. Kenneth Roth, the executive director of Human Rights Watch, and Salil Shetty, secretary general of Amnesty International, making the case for pardoning Snowden, write that Snowden now “is the head of a human rights group, the Freedom of the Press Foundation; he’s developing technology to protect journalists in dangerous zones around the world from life-threatening surveillance; and he has frequently criticized the human rights and technology policies of Russia, the only country that stands between him and a high-security prison in the United States.”

Tarheel_Dem

(31,239 posts)

5. The American people disagree. Get over it. n/t

Reply to cpwm17 (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 04:35 PM

Sep 2016

cpwm17

(3,829 posts)

9. By popular vote we'd all be forced to pray to god at school.

Reply to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #5)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 05:07 PM

Sep 2016

The US Constitution isn't by majority vote:

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,239 posts)

11. Your argument doesn't apply to Snowie. He had areas of redress, and opted not to use them.

Reply to cpwm17 (Reply #9)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 05:46 PM

Sep 2016

Instead, he fled the country in order to make a big splash with his Chinese & Russian overlords.

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)

21. He claimed to be against domestic spying and exposed international activities.

Reply to cpwm17 (Reply #9)

Fri Sep 23, 2016, 10:47 AM

Sep 2016

He was a liar from day one, and shame on you for falling for it.

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)

14. Do you deny he fled the country?

Reply to cpwm17 (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 06:40 PM

Sep 2016

In addition to exposing illegal activities, he also exposed A LOT of perfectly legal and legitimate foreign intelligence operations. Why did he do that?

FUCK EDWARD SNOWDEN. I'd be be willing to give him a pass on revealing the illegal stuff, but he has other crimes to answer for.

So boo-frickin'-hoo Eddie. Enjoy the Moscow winter.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,239 posts)

4. Give it up. Americans didn't flock to "Snowden: The Movie" because they think he's a traitorous....

Reply to OxQQme (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 04:33 PM

Sep 2016

asshole. Any leverage, he & Oliver Stone thought they would gain from that fiasco has completely blown up in their faces. Hollywood can't save Snowie, cuz nobody gives a shit about him or his new Russian masters. Whether there by choice, or completely by accident (cough..cough), he's Putin's problem now.

5 Reasons Why ‘Snowden’ Couldn’t Hack It at the Box Office
Tough subject matter and weak reviews hurt Oliver Stone‘s film about NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden

Beatrice Verhoeven | Published 8:50 am, Sunday, September 18, 2016

“Snowden” opened to $8 million in theaters this weekend, a disappointing fourth-place start for the Joseph Gordon-Levitt drama about NSA whistle blower Edward Snowden that was produced for $40 million.

Tough subject matter, tough critics and numerous release date changes are just a few reasons why “Snowden” underperformed on 2,443 screens — though the fact that it landed an A from theatergoers surveyed by CinemaScore suggests that it may have some holding power in coming weeks due to positive word of mouth.

Even director Oliver Stone told TheWrap that studios shied away from the film despite a great script and co-star Shailene Woodley.

2. Joseph Gordon-Levitt Isn’t a Box Office Draw Anymore

The actor hasn’t exactly packed ‘em in for his recent movies. His film “The Walk” was produced on a budget of $35 million, but only grossed $10.1 million domestically after a $3.4 million debut weekend.

http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/the-wrap/article/5-Reasons-Why-Snowden-Might-Not-Hack-It-at-9226205.php

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)

6. ***Sigh*** Once again, for the record:

Reply to OxQQme (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 04:36 PM

Sep 2016

He didn’t “flee to Russia”; he was trapped there when the government stripped his passport. -- Debunked 18 months ago, please just stop. He is free to fly out to the country of his choice using Russian travel papers at any time. The only people "trapping" him there are the goddamned Russians themselves.

He didn’t have protected whistleblower avenues. -- But there were other courses of action he could have easily taken were he not motivated by personal enrichment and fame, and as I've already pointed out a thousand times, the vast majority of what has been published so far (Spying on China, relatives of AQ leadership, etc) are legitimate foreign intelligence/defense operations, and have nothing to do with "whistleblowing".

He didn’t lie about his medical discharge from the military or his position as a NSA contractor. -- Cool, then where is his proof? I'd love to see it.

The House report accuses Snowden of causing “tremendous damage” to national security, but fails to offer a clue of what that damage might be. -- Because it is classified, but it is telling that the recommendations of the HPSCI were unanimous. Snowden needs to be thanking whatever god he prays to that it is classified for the time being, since the full 36-page report almost certainly confirms what I've been saying all along, which is that Snowden collaborated with Russian intelligence services.

=======================
=======================

Defectors to Russia tend to not get pardoned, nor are they ignorant enough to demand one... I'm old enough to remember when Snowden was clamoring for his day in court, and then later a plea bargain, but even the most ardent true believers on his legal defense team realize there's no way out. Since Snowden has no chance in hell of getting pardoned by whoever wins the election, an 11th hour Hail Mary from Obama (who Snowdenistas have been shitting on nonstop for 3+ years) is his only salvation...

If Snowflake is truly happy in Moscow as he has claimed, let him live out the rest of his days there while the rest of us move on...

NOW.... Is there anything else, or are we done here?

skylucy

(3,740 posts)

7. Thank you! I agree! And when I saw the previews of Snowden at the theater last week I just

Reply to Blue_Tires (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 04:55 PM

Sep 2016

rolled my eyes. Glad that people are not flocking to see it.

randome

(34,845 posts)

12. Look, Blue_Tires, if you're going to demand facts and evidence of Snowden-alia...

Reply to Blue_Tires (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 05:59 PM

Sep 2016

...then this entire thread becomes meaningless. We wouldn't want that, would we?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

Response to OxQQme (Original post)

Post removed

Tarheel_Dem

(31,239 posts)

10. Snowden has nothing to do with "liberal" Democrats. He's a fucking Libertarian who had no problem..

Reply to Post removed (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 05:18 PM

Sep 2016

with secret surveillance until the black guy showed up in the Oval Office. When Bush/Cheney were in the WH, Snowden thought "leakers should be shot in the balls". Remember that?

freebrew

(1,917 posts)

16. Without Snowden...

Reply to Tarheel_Dem (Reply #10)

Fri Sep 23, 2016, 10:21 AM

Sep 2016

the government would be way farther ahead with their spying on U.S. citizens.

He exposed illegal programs started in the * administration that Obama
refused to stop and in fact embraced.

If he had done this during the * era, no doubt he would be a hero here.

I don't care about him personally. That's a diversion.
What he did was as important as what Ellsberg did and has said as much.

BlueInPhilly

(870 posts)

23. The Russians have taken over

Reply to freebrew (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 23, 2016, 11:00 AM

Sep 2016

"spying" on U.S. Citizens, with more malicious intent.

Now, if you were going to be spied on anyway, which side would you choose?

trof

(54,256 posts)

13. No. It should be Don Siegelman.

Reply to OxQQme (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 06:03 PM

Sep 2016

freebrew

(1,917 posts)

17. Both.

Reply to trof (Reply #13)

Fri Sep 23, 2016, 10:22 AM

Sep 2016

I agree Siegelman should have been pardoned first day.

struggle4progress

(118,332 posts)

15. (1) A passport is not a prerequisite for travel: it merely simplifies travel

Reply to OxQQme (Original post)

Thu Sep 22, 2016, 11:06 PM

Sep 2016

due to various agreements between nations

(2) The US passports of fugitives are revoked, under long-existing law and regulation: there is nothing unusual about the revocation og Snowden's passport in this regard -- and it would have been highly unusual if the passport had not been revoked

(3) The revocation of the passport actually occurred when Snowden was in China, and China chose not to notice that fact

(4) While Snowden was in China, the Chinese press reported he was revealing US intelligence targets in China -- which does not suggest he was motivated by concern for civil liberties in the US

(5) While Snowden was in China, press also reported he visited the Russian embassy there -- which also does not suggest he was motivated by concern for civil liberties in the US

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)

18. That will not happen.

Reply to OxQQme (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2016, 10:28 AM

Sep 2016

Not a chance.

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)

19. You forget, this place is almost as anti-Snowden as it is anti-Trump.

Reply to OxQQme (Original post)

Fri Sep 23, 2016, 10:33 AM

Sep 2016

You'd have a better chance bringing Aaron Swartz back from the dead.

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)

22. I prefer to think of us as pro-reality, not anti-Snowden. If he weren't such a liar...

Reply to VulgarPoet (Reply #19)

Fri Sep 23, 2016, 10:56 AM

Sep 2016

...maybe more people would support him?

He claimed to be against domestic spying, then almost exclusively exposed foreign intelligence activity. (Like when he was in Hong Kong and released data about US activity there to ingratiate himself with the local populace as the authorities closed in on him.) He failed to use whistle-blower outlets that were available to him before fleeing the country. He deceived his coworkers to get their login information, abusing his position of trust and authority to access and steal thousands of documents he had no clearance to access.

Nearly everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie, and he is clearly in it for the notoriety. He's nothing but a bored libertarian who decided that the same activity that he supported under a Republican President was somehow evil under a Democratic President. He's a fraud, and it's good that American audiences didn't fall for dishonest propaganda trying to paint him as anything else.

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