EIGHT HOUR interrogation of a woman who reported a rape at her college)

I've worked in the community hospital setting for 20 yrs in the Emergency Dpt and fortunately, my experience has always been that victims of assault are treated with dignity and respect, concern for their fragility in the moment, and never with disbelief, disrespect or disregard.

SANE nurses spend a couple hours with them alone, collecting evidence and offering patience and support, not to mention the morning after pill, STD and sometimes HIV prophylaxis, and bringing in a rape counselor/advocate to offer them a social support network, ensure safety, etc.

With that said, how can anyone with any minutiae of empathy seriously ask the question why didn't you tell somebody? These people are trying to undo decades of work on social justice and gender equality issues.

We were shamed
We were made to feel embarrassed
No one believed us
We were made powerless
We were made to feel disgusting
We were told we should have stopped it
People felt differently about us
And we can never forget, no matter how we try to bury it. That's a fact.

I do love your posts, and you. And I need/want to point out what is true. We are/were all of those things.

Love u back.

I have some tears tonight. It is good to have some sisters in my sorrow.

I was having constant reminders for a week now. It's a lot. I hear you.

A landmark speech. Maybe her best - ever!

asked this question earlier today. He actually asked why the People magazine reporter didn't come forward 12 years ago, when she could have had, "the glory" of taking down a big celebrity....

Every time I hear things like this, it's very clear that they DO NOT GET IT. At all. Or they don't want to understand.

In her article Natasha Stoynoff explains why she didn't report Trump's assault, explains her feelings and her worries about accusing a powerful man of such an act.

I haven't read all the accounts but most of them that I have read talk about why they didn't do anything against Trump at the time.

But Kingston does not get it and does not want to understand. He is an appropriate surrogate for Donald Trump and just as despicable.

Tooooo many men don't want to listen to us. They can't imagine a reality different from theirs.

They're ok with telling us "how it is", though.

Thanks for clearing that up, Jack!





=========================

tRump sues at the drop of a hat.

in addition to using other forms of intimidation he can to make women fear him. He's an abusive ass.

...because speaking up can get you killed.

The cadre of knuckleheads attacking the victims who have finally come forward to accuse a powerful man. The only strength they have right now is in their growing numbers; coming forward individually at the time of their assaults would have subjected each and every one of them to the piecemeal assassination of their characters.

But now? They're not alone. They're not afraid. Trump is alone. Trump is afraid.

It is such an old song and dance. MO speech today was a huge step in the right direction I believe.

What were you wearing?

Did you give him the wrong message by wearing a tight, short skirt and high heels?

Did you wear too much lipstick?

What did you say to him?

Could you have made him think that you were ready and willing?

Did you give him signals by smiling at him or giggling at something he said?


Then they go into your history:

How many men have you been with?
A lot?
Did he know this?


Are you a virgin?

When did you lose your virginity?

Are you known as a party girl?


All these questions are designed to insinuate that the woman was the one at fault for making the man think he could do whatever.

Rape and Spousal abuse, both.

Why would anyone possibly believe us?

and a history of destroying people without a second thought.

for those who do not, or will not understand...

He told me it was, I was not in High School anymore. I had come to a party on a college campus and I should have known. Even my "no" and struggling were just a way I used to excite him. He told me so.

And it was my brother and when my mother found out she whipped me and called me a whore and asked me if I "liked it."

It went on for years. I knew I was on my own.

And then all the other crap, over all the years. Same shit different day. Just kept my head down and survived.

But if anyone knew what was inside of me...the anger is like the molten core at Chernobyl....if I ever lost control of it it might destroy the world.

Just posted my own story below, and for as much issues as I had with my own, there are so many that had it so much worse than I did. I honestly don't know if I could have endured your situation.

I do understand that anger, though.

But here we are. Still alive. And about to vote for the first female president of the U.S. And that's kind of miraculous, isn't it?

...I never told anyone until I was 50 (almost 30 years later). And I've only told three or four of the closest people in my life.

The response says make you want to cry

The guy didn't threaten me he was an 18 year old babysitter and he sort of bribed me.
He did it one time and anytime my parents needed a sitter I would disappear .
I wasn't sure what happened, I just didn't like him.
However I didn't tell my mom till my late teens.

1) it didn't happen the way you think.
2) so what? There's no lasting damage.
3) he was confused about your signals.
4) you think that's bad? Here's what happened to me....

You have beautifully summarized the feelings of ANYone who has had to deal with unwanted sexualwri advances.

I'm 52 now, but can remember in detail a very inappropriate sexual encounter with my uncle, 50, when I was 16. Teenagers today are a lot more aware of the world, back in 1980, maybe not so much. ALL your answers describe perfectly what I put myself thru after it happened. Afterwards, I still had to deal with him and his disgusting comments to me and trying to touch me. I desperately wanted to tell my parents, but was so afraid (and still believe I am right about this) that they would never believe me. The feelings of self disgust, blaming myself, it was all there. On top of that, I knew I was gay at the time, but after the incident, I spent so long telling myself, no, you're not gay, because I was so disgusted by the incident. It was the one time in my life i came close to killing myself, to the point of standing in the bathroom with a razor to my wrist. At that point I thought, "You're really going to throw your life away over HIM?" and realized there was no way I was going to do that.

I've disliked Trump since the 80's, thought of him as a self centered, egotistical jerk who was his own biggest fan. After this election season, and especially with these (probably still) ongoing revelations, I view him with a disgust that borders on absolute detestation.

Thank you for expressing in words exactly why the victims of these kind of attacks keep their mouths shut.

Knowing the revelation would hurt many other people.

And you can't unring a bell.

* You'll be dragged through the mud.

* You don't want to have to defend your "morality" to others. (Read: everyone.)

* You can't risk your paycheck, people depend on you.

* Maybe you can just avoid them in the future?

* They'll just say you lied

Been there. I understand how things come down typically. A lot of us understand how things are stacked against us.

P.S. Fuck Trump, and everyone like him who abuses women because their power gives them privilege.

I actually loved the person and was told to be respectful of adults, and absolutely everyone held this person in high regard. I knew there would be huge repercussions if I was believed, and yet I was also terrified no one would believe me. I felt shame and wondered what I did to cause this.

Regarding Cosby, he said that--"why didn't they come forward at the time? In my book that makes them questionable."

My intelligent, liberal friend, a true expert on racism and the history of slavery, as well as on the hypocrisy of the Bible.....who wouldn't go near besmirching Cosby, (even though C has said himself, he drugged women for sex)....this friend had no problem calling 50 women LIARS! Some of them black, some of them white.

And then telling me he's the biggest feminist around and knows more about women's experiences than me.

I've been angry about it for a while.

That happened to my daughter. We did not find out until 12 years later. She repressed it and went from a very happy child to someone who had many issues. We thought she was safe attending youth group. He took her to a private area of the church. The church is over a 100 years old and had a secret room behind the pipe organ. He started out with flattery and made her feel special.

We took her to a sexual assault counselor when we found out. We wanted to have him arrested, but first the statute of limitations had ended. Second, she had to be emotionally ready to handle what she would face in court. The Presbyterian church has lots of money for good lawyers. She is still not ready to this day. I know where he is, as he has moved several times, but I make it a point to periodically check on where he has relocated. I know that she must not be the only one he has molested through the years.

We have not been able to attend church after this. Our sons do not want anything to do with organized religion. And then I watch the Evangelicals support a monster like Trump. It turns my stomach.

because you accepted the ride home. -And you didn't realize all the ways it would eventually effect you.

I hate that your daughter went through that. And you're right -she wouldn't have been his only victim.

shit. FREUD discovered MASS SEX ABUSE when he first started & he was DISBELIVED so he came up w/ his bullshit PENIS ID SHIT!

i studied his start for an art school thing. penis envy my ASS. men have WOMB envy.

Domestic abuse of every nature, is not talked about - the same answers would apply..in fact, there was a time there were NO shelters..NO help - it wasn't until the mid seventies that shelters started to be provided..

Physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, you just want to forget it ever happened, bury it..why? - because if you don't, you can't take that first step forward - time may heal those wounds, but you never forget...

For these women today, to be able to talk about what happened to them, by the man who would be President, they didn't have a choice..they had to come forward..they are the heroines now..

Be well all

I can remember an event some 30+ years ago. I witnessed what I considered to be sexual harassment in the workplace. There was this one guy who just loved to wait in the hallway until one of our female co-workers came along and every single damn time he would somehow manage to arrange his 'walk down the corridor' to brush against them.

I reported my concern to HR.

Nothing happened.

I told the women I worked with that I would be more than happy to 'just happen to walk' down the hallway when they needed to go there. At least, in my own little way I tried to push back.

Many years later, I was the victim of a 'harassment complaint' from one of my subordinates. I was working as a contractor at a Postal Service Data Processing Center in California. I have to give kudos to the way the main office handled it. First it was investigated locally. I was interviewed and all of my other direct reports were interviewed. The local office determined that there had been no harassment. The person who had complained wasn't satisfied. So Post Office management get involved and everyone was interviewed again. Again, no harassment. Again the complainant wasn't satisfied. So headquarters of the contracting agency I was working for flew a couple of investigators from their home office in NY out to California and we went through the whole thing all over again. Again the verdict was no harassment. (The person who had complained felt that I had been promoted instead of her 'because I was male - even though I had several years seniority and a proven track record. The Post Office was one of the best 'equal opportunity' jobs I have ever had.)
But, folks, that's how you deal with a harassment complaint.

(A few months later, I heard a programmer [male] dressing down a subordinate [female] for an error in code, telling her it was obviously her mistake, because his code didn't have bugs! I reported the incident to my boss and within an hour, just long enough for them to verify the incident, he was escorted from the building and told his services were no longer required.)

I guess the point of this ramble is that some of us men do try. I'm not sure we always succeed, but we try. I nearly cried when I listened to Michele's speech today. All I can offer is, if any woman needs/wants support I stand ready.

This is a slight digression as it deals not with the demeaning of women, but rather demeaning of the elderly. Similar sort of thing though.

The president of a mid-size software company where I used to work was in his sixties probably. He regularly ate lunch in the company cafeteria. It was quite a good cafeteria. A serve-yourself place. So one day he was standing there getting ready to serve himself -- probably some chicken noodle soup, his favorite -- and a young guy (probably a programmer too) told him something abrupt like "Hurry it up, old man". Apparently that programmer, like the one in your story, was shown the exit that very day.

Your story, like this one, reminds me of the adage: As*hol*s are A h*les to everybody. They're worse to people they see as vulnerable, but they're abusive to anyone and everyone if the opportunity arises. The corollary is that people who enjoy abusing women, or children -- or the elderly, foreigners, disabled -- or for that matter animals -- will also abuse anyone else they can get away with abusing.

I can't believe that the prevalence of abuse could be this high in all societies. We've gone very wrong someplace along the line as a society.

Addendum: Forgot to say: I liked your story. Uplifting, inspirational. Shows that progress is possible. Baby steps. Thanks for sharing the upbeat story and sentiments.

You truly understand. When girls and women are encouraged to speak up, when they are surrounded by people who understand and empathize, they are empowered and freed from guilt and shame. That is how it always should be.

You have created spaces here for us to come together, to no longer be alone with our suffering. Our virtual hugs are cathartic; our sharing of experiences bonds us in a sisterhood that makes us stronger at the broken places.

DT is scheduled for an upcoming court case, finally, on an alleged rape of a young teenage girl some years ago. Instructive on questions around reporting the crime. It's getting surprisingly little press coverage -- Imagine if that had been Hillary's husband ! -- Fox would be all over the story like piranhas.

It bears mentioning that the perpetrator often threatens the victim with seemingly convincing threats either of bodily harm or of harm to the victim's family members.

The following from
https://victimsofcrime.org/media/reporting-on-child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-statistics

1 in 5 girls and 1 in 20 boys is a victim of child sexual abuse;

Self-report studies show that 20% of adult females and 5-10% of adult males recall a childhood sexual assault or sexual abuse incident;

During a one-year period in the U.S., 16% of youth ages 14 to 17 had been sexually victimized;

Over the course of their lifetime, 28% of U.S. youth ages 14 to 17 had been sexually victimized;

Children are most vulnerable to CSA between the ages of 7 and 13.

According to a 2003 National Institute of Justice report, 3 out of 4 adolescents who have been sexually assaulted were victimized by someone they knew well

. . .

A child who is the victim of prolonged sexual abuse usually develops low self-esteem, a feeling of worthlessness and an abnormal or distorted view of sex. The child may become withdrawn and mistrustful of adults, and can become suicidal
. . .

Child sexual abuse is not solely restricted to physical contact; such abuse could include noncontact abuse, such as exposure, voyeurism, and child pornography

Because pursuing every incident would take up a ton of time, and possibly money, and burn a lot of bridges
Because talking about it to men is exasperating even when they mean well so I generally don't
Because women all deal with it and don't need to hear about my latest horror story

Last time it happened, we did tell someone. And...

we were told "it wasn't important."
We were told "it wasn't really rape."
We were told "you shouldn't have gone to that party."
We were told "he's not that kind of guy."
We were told "you'll probably get expelled."
We were told "be careful how you dress."
We were told "you better not have a drink."
We were told "how stupid was it to accept a ride from him."
We were told "the campus police have more important things to deal with."

silently,
Bright

you sat with a friend to wait for the police to arrive. Both her eyes are blacked, her nose is swollen and bleeding, she's missing a tooth and several more are obviously broken, her jaw is bruised and swollen, there's blood all over her torn clothing. And you are stunned when the first question from the police is, "What did you do to provoke him?"


.

And even when answering the question and thinking about the answer that all the same reasons and feelings come rushing out.

That watching and hearing since last week's release of the now well-known "grab em by the Pussy" tape and everything that comes out of Trump's mouth, that I feel like I am reliving it...

When it happens ALL THE TIME. So no wonder women don't talk about when it happens. Because they will not be believed. EVER.

what came back came in bits and pieces but I finally put it together. It came back as a result of seeing a photo of my 18 year old granddaughter in her dorm room on her proud first day of college. She is so beautiful. And I worried about her.

I will be asking my daughter, her mother, if the new freshmen are full aware of "no means no"
and seriously taking steps for the safety of all students and treating sexual harassment for what it is.

The culture we live in doesn't really address groping, which is why most people don't view it as sexual assault or have any strategies in place for how to deal with it when it happens. As many of the women who have come forward have said, the thought of getting the authorities involved may not even cross your mind. When groped inappropriately, the options that might immediately come to mind are to either slap the guy or make a loud scene--if we're uncomfortable with those options, the third option is to do nothing. In my case, the option of calling the police didn't cross my mind until a few hours later--by then the man was long gone. By then, I was furious and shaming myself for not having physically attacked him in response.

Speaking of which... I think our culture puts an additional pressure/expectation on women to get into a physical altercation with a man who gropes / sexually assaults us--and any other response implies consent.

Federal Sex Offense Laws
United States Criminal Code
Title 18, Part One, Chapter 109A - Sexual Abuse

Section 2244. Abusive Sexual Contact
... Whoever, ... , knowingly engages in sexual contact with another person without that person's permission shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

Section 2246. Definitions

. . .the term "sexual contact" means the intentional touching, either directly or through the clothing, of the genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks of any person with an intent to abuse, humiliate, harass, degrade, or arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person;

quoted from http://www.fris.org/Laws/FedallLaws.html
they got it from http://uscode.house.gov/search/criteria.shtml

There are other sections on other sexual offenses, this quote only covers one small bit to do with groping

He was known, he had money, he had some power.

But, he was a nobody, a twerp, a typical pig, so why bother telling anyone but a friend.
The guy was worthless trash, not worth the inconvenience.

Now, however, that worthless trash is trying to fulfill the Republican Party's long-advertised plan to seize all of the vaginas in our USA.

The woman (victim) told her mentor/professor right after it happened and they discussed it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/journalism-professor-confirms-people-writer-accusations-against-trump_us_58024579e4b0162c043c4d0a?section=us_politics

Journalism Professor Supports People Writer’s Claims Against Trump
Paul McLaughlin said Natasha Stoynoff called him after the sexual assault occurred.
10/15/2016 01:29 pm ET | Updated 6 hours ago

. . .
The professor, Paul McLaughlin, said Stoynoff, a former student of his, called him after the incident and they discussed how to deal with it.

“She didn’t know what to do, she was very conflicted, she was angry, she was really confused about how to deal with this,” McLaughlin told CBC News.

After consulting with McLaughlin, Stoynoff decided that coming forward about Trump’s inappropriate advances would just be too risky after their conversation, according to McLaughlin.

“It was going to be a he said, she said,” McLaughlin told CBC News. “And we were talking about one of the most influential people in North America at the time. He was just flying high with ‘The Apprentice,’ he was aggressive, he was litigious.”

. . . the writer says she remained silent because she feared that a “famous, powerful, wealthy man could and would discredit and destroy” her. McLaughlin’s remarks confirm that she felt this way.
. . .