Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Fri Oct 21, 2016, 04:43 PM Oct 2016

Man gets probation for ripping off woman’s hijab on Southwest flight

http://www.arabamericannews.com/news/news/id_13085/Man-gets-probation-for-ripping-off-woman%E2%80%99s-hijab-on-southwest-flight.html

A North Carolina man who acknowledged grabbing and pulling off a Muslim woman's hijab on a flight from Chicago to Albuquerque, New Mexico, has been sentenced to a year of probation that includes two months of home confinement....

Payne pleaded guilty in May to a misdemeanor charge of obstructing a person's free exercise of religious beliefs in connection with the Dec. 11 incident on a Southwest Airlines flight.

In his plea agreement, Payne said he grabbed and removed Khawla Abdel-Haq's hijab, a religious headscarf, midflight. He was seated several rows behind her and did not know her.

He stormed down the aisle, shouted “This is America! Take that s*** off,” and then grabbed the back of the hijab and pulled it all the way off, leaving her head exposed.


"a misdemeanor charge of obstructing a person's free exercise of religious beliefs"? Isn't that assault? On an airplane, no less?!
46 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Man gets probation for ripping off woman’s hijab on Southwest flight (Original Post) KamaAina Oct 2016 OP
This is the federal prosecution jberryhill Oct 2016 #1
Thank you for explaining the federal law Peaches999 Oct 2016 #27
Dunno jberryhill Oct 2016 #29
My belief is #2, protection of society Peaches999 Oct 2016 #31
In civil terms - it is battery. Ms. Toad Oct 2016 #2
Incidentally, it's not just probation, and it's not over.... jberryhill Oct 2016 #3
Abdel-Haq is more an American awoke_in_2003 Oct 2016 #15
People learn, grow and change jberryhill Oct 2016 #18
Well, hopefully he will awoke_in_2003 Oct 2016 #21
Have a dose of hope jberryhill Oct 2016 #22
My cynic sometimes pops out... awoke_in_2003 Oct 2016 #23
was god angry at her? it wasn't her fault her hair was exposed! maxsolomon Oct 2016 #4
I'm sorry, are you suggesting that it's okay to remove other people's articles of clothing? jberryhill Oct 2016 #8
no, where did i say that? maxsolomon Oct 2016 #37
don't bother, jb. It's an oddball attempt to be sarcastic about religious dogma. Divine Discontent Oct 2016 #46
Would you be so glib awoke_in_2003 Oct 2016 #16
give me a break - she suffered no phyical injury. maxsolomon Oct 2016 #39
You do not have to suffer awoke_in_2003 Oct 2016 #43
I AM NOT DEFENDING THIS SHITHEAD maxsolomon Oct 2016 #44
what are your thoughts on the person who pulled it off of her ? JI7 Oct 2016 #35
he was a bigoted dumb ass maxsolomon Oct 2016 #40
This should be no different from grabbing someones hat. nm mr_liberal Oct 2016 #5
so if skinheads go around grabbing yamulkes off of observant Jews while yelling "Heil Hitler" geek tragedy Oct 2016 #10
Disturbing, but so is women wearing symbols of their own oppression ErikJ Oct 2016 #12
Her body, her choice.* closeupready Oct 2016 #13
+1 uponit7771 Oct 2016 #24
OMG, thank you! closeupready Oct 2016 #30
I don't care for them either... awoke_in_2003 Oct 2016 #17
Like high-heeled shoes or brassieres? jberryhill Oct 2016 #19
+1, "don't try to "fix" other people's religious practices that don't involve you. " uponit7771 Oct 2016 #25
Pagans, too Tree-Hugger Oct 2016 #28
Or pastafarians jberryhill Oct 2016 #32
Like bikinis? nt tblue37 Oct 2016 #26
Some hijabs can be sexy too ErikJ Oct 2016 #33
and some women do like to wear it for that reason and how it focuses on JI7 Oct 2016 #34
Plea bargain Warpy Oct 2016 #36
if he'd been caught with a joint, he might be going to prison. Warren DeMontague Oct 2016 #45
Dec 1969 #
Dec 1969 #
Dec 1969 #
Dec 1969 #
Dec 1969 #
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
1. This is the federal prosecution
Fri Oct 21, 2016, 04:57 PM
Oct 2016

This is a federal criminal prosecution.

No, there is no federal crime of "assault" (unless we are talking about an assault against a federal official). If he is chargeable in a particular state under that state's relevant statute, would not be a matter for a federal prosecution.

The federal statute in question is here:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/247

Cutting that down the operative language here:

(a) Whoever, in any of the circumstances referred to in subsection (b) of this section—
.....
(2) intentionally obstructs, by force or threat of force, any person in the enjoyment of that person’s free exercise of religious beliefs, or attempts to do so;
shall be punished as provided in subsection (d).

(b) The circumstances referred to in subsection (a) are that the offense is in or affects interstate or foreign commerce.

...

(d) The punishment for a violation of subsection (a) of this section shall be—
(1) if death results...
(2) if bodily injury results...
(3) if bodily injury to any person....
(4) in any other case, a fine in accordance with this title and imprisonment for not more than one year, or both.


---------

In court on Tuesday, an apologetic Payne said he was drunk on the flight, and that since pleading guilty he has acquainted himself with other religions, including Islam. Payne also said that he recently visited a mosque.

“I’m embarrassed. I’m 100 percent embarrassed,” Payne said.

----

Do you believe he represents a continuing threat of this kind of behavior, and what is it you would like to see done to him?

 

Peaches999

(118 posts)
27. Thank you for explaining the federal law
Fri Oct 21, 2016, 11:52 PM
Oct 2016

Will there be another state prosecution? I don't necessarily want someone to be incarcerated merely to prove a point, but I guess that option is still out there.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
29. Dunno
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 12:02 AM
Oct 2016

If the purpose of the prosecution is to send a message, I think the attention this has gotten is a clear message.

If the purpose is protection of society, then the prosecutors and judge have first hand access to probe his sincerity.

If the purpose is punishment because it makes us feel good, then that's something to reflect upon.

 

Peaches999

(118 posts)
31. My belief is #2, protection of society
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 12:10 AM
Oct 2016

I can understand totally why people were upset Brock Turner was not incarcerated longer, for example.

That being said, I think the defendant here got the message, seems at least according to the transcript to be remorseful, and the question is whether the victim wants to pursue this further. There is a high economic cost to incarceration. If he fucks up again, lock him up for a long time.

Ms. Toad

(34,074 posts)
2. In civil terms - it is battery.
Fri Oct 21, 2016, 05:09 PM
Oct 2016

She has a private action for $ damages in battery. (I tell my students to think B=Battery=Beating up; assault creates an apprehension of battery, but doen't require physical contact.)

In criminal terms, it depends on the state law. Some track tort law - others are entirely different. For example, Ohio folds everything into assault (there is no criminal battery), and much of what we think of as assault is either not criminal - or falls under the crime of menacing.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
3. Incidentally, it's not just probation, and it's not over....
Fri Oct 21, 2016, 05:10 PM
Oct 2016

He is confined for two months and out $5000 (plus whatever he paid his lawyer):

------
He was sentenced Tuesday in U.S. District Court to a year of probation, including two months of home confinement. U.S. Magistrate Judge Steven Yarbrough also ordered Payne to pay a $1,000 fine, along with a nearly $4,000 fee.
------

He has been confronted by the victim, who is also willing to forgive him:


-------
“You hurt me. You disrespected me. You violated me,” Abdel-Haq said in court. “I was scared, and it shouldn’t be like that.”

Before he announced the sentence, Yarbrough said he had taken into account Abdel-Haq’s willingness to forgive along with the public shaming Payne endured and his recent efforts to learn about world religions.

“I hope that that has made an impact on the way you see the world,” Yarbrough said.
----

...and he is still subject to state prosecution and a civil suit:

---
Abdel-Haq’s attorney, Ahmad Assed, said the family is considering a civil lawsuit, but for now Abdel-Haq is focused on moving past the incident. For now, they hope the case sends a message.
----

When you see a story about one aspect of a criminal prosecution, it is quite often related to that one particular charge, and not the larger picture.
 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
21. Well, hopefully he will
Fri Oct 21, 2016, 08:49 PM
Oct 2016

but I am surrounded by these types of asshats down here, and they never do seem to grow.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
8. I'm sorry, are you suggesting that it's okay to remove other people's articles of clothing?
Fri Oct 21, 2016, 05:36 PM
Oct 2016

Under ANY circumstances?

maxsolomon

(33,345 posts)
37. no, where did i say that?
Mon Oct 24, 2016, 11:43 AM
Oct 2016

i didn't even imply it. unless you're saying that god pulled it off? are you suggesting that god guided this drunken idiot's hand?

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
16. Would you be so glib
Fri Oct 21, 2016, 07:48 PM
Oct 2016

if this happened to a woman in your life? I am not a big fan of hijabs, but she has every right to wear one without fear of attack. Had I been in the position to stop this fool, I would have gladly done it.

maxsolomon

(33,345 posts)
39. give me a break - she suffered no phyical injury.
Mon Oct 24, 2016, 11:48 AM
Oct 2016

glibness is entirely appropriate here. i find this absurd from start to finish.

much worse things than this have happened to women in my life. women in my life have been assaulted by strangers. women in my life have been raped. women in my life have died young.

worse things than this have probably happened to the woman in this case. he pulled her scarf off - how would you have been in a position to stop that, airplane vigilante?

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
43. You do not have to suffer
Mon Oct 24, 2016, 03:12 PM
Oct 2016

physical injury to be a victim of assault. I can't believe this shit head is being defended here.

maxsolomon

(33,345 posts)
44. I AM NOT DEFENDING THIS SHITHEAD
Fri Oct 28, 2016, 05:25 PM
Oct 2016

I was attacking Abrahamic Monotheism and it's inherent misogyny.

Jesus Christ.

maxsolomon

(33,345 posts)
40. he was a bigoted dumb ass
Mon Oct 24, 2016, 11:50 AM
Oct 2016

and probably drunk.

is that the right answer? do i pass the DU hijab-defense league test?

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
10. so if skinheads go around grabbing yamulkes off of observant Jews while yelling "Heil Hitler"
Fri Oct 21, 2016, 05:47 PM
Oct 2016

no biggy?

 

ErikJ

(6,335 posts)
12. Disturbing, but so is women wearing symbols of their own oppression
Fri Oct 21, 2016, 05:54 PM
Oct 2016

when they dont have to. I hate those things.

 

closeupready

(29,503 posts)
30. OMG, thank you!
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 12:06 AM
Oct 2016

I've been so down on DU lately. So I'm encouraged that my "radical left-wing ideas" (like right to privacy and personal freedoms) are shared by others here, so again thank you for plussing my post.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
17. I don't care for them either...
Fri Oct 21, 2016, 07:50 PM
Oct 2016

but that is her business, not ours, and no one has the right to rip it off her head.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
19. Like high-heeled shoes or brassieres?
Fri Oct 21, 2016, 08:30 PM
Oct 2016


I can't believe there are people who would defend what this asshole did.

Here's a simple rule - don't try to "fix" other people's religious practices that don't involve you.

There are Christian denominations which also involve headgear. Come to SE PA and liberate some Amish and Mennonites.

Tree-Hugger

(3,370 posts)
28. Pagans, too
Fri Oct 21, 2016, 11:52 PM
Oct 2016

Many pagan women cover their heads - including using titchel and hijab style wraps, some even opting for niquab - as part of their spiritual practice.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
32. Or pastafarians
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 12:16 AM
Oct 2016

I have great respect for the pastafarians who have fought and won for their right to wear colanders on their heads.



Whatever one's conscience requires one to wear on their head is fine with me.

JI7

(89,251 posts)
34. and some women do like to wear it for that reason and how it focuses on
Sat Oct 22, 2016, 12:45 AM
Oct 2016

an attractive part of them (their eyes).

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
45. if he'd been caught with a joint, he might be going to prison.
Fri Oct 28, 2016, 05:32 PM
Oct 2016

of course, pot smoking is a REAL crime, unlike assault.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Man gets probation for ri...