The TPP is heavily weighted toward investors' rights.

How does it help the US when many US companies closed shop and moved to China and other slave wage countries?

Neither response offers a real solution.

How does it help American consumers and workers if all these Asian nations trade with one another and shut us out?

I don't know what the solution is but I don't and never believed President Obama was doing it to screw Americans.

What would help US workers is if tariffs were imposed to compensate for dumping of goods in the US by foreign countries. China is regularly fined for dumping steel, and tires, and other goods below cost to gain market share in the US.

When Nike moved their shoe manufacturing to the Far East, the price of the shoes did not drop.
When Carrier moves the price of their goods will not drop.
All of our trade agreements have resulted in a large loss of manufacturing jobs because tariffs were eliminated among treaty signatories.

China shouldn't be able to manipulate their currency, dump their goods here, or steal our intellectual property.

But imposing a 45% tariff on Chinese imports will devastate the working poor who spend most of their income and ignite a trade war. It also would be a violation of international law.

which pays a non-living wage to the same working poor. A self-sustaining system that relies on wage stagnation and consumer debt.

Agreed that the Chinese do manipulate their currency, but other Eastern countries also impose tariffs on US products. South Korea sells many cars here but US manufacturers face huge obstacles to selling cars in S. Korea.

So Working Class Joe who takes home $600.00 a week has to spend $435.00 on a Lenovo computer instead of $299.00.

BTW, I am typing on a Lenovo 15.6 inch lap top I bought for $299.00 in cash.

A Government retiree with a defined benefit pension who has belonged to a union for 40 years. But when I started working for the Government, approximately 34% of workers belonged to unions. And many people had defined benefit pensions in union and non-union industries because wages and benefits were rising.

The problem, as I see it, is that as unions were attacked and weakened, workers incomes and benefits were also weakened because unions are the only reason that there is a middle class.

Wages have stagnated and benefits have disappeared since the time of Reagan. If working class Joe and Jane's incomes had kept pace with inflation they could easily afford the extra money for the computer. And they could afford to buy houses and cars and other things without incurring credit card debt.

WalMart might sell Chinese products for less, but minimum wage workers are not the beneficiaries here, they are the victims. US workers cannot compete with Chinese slave labor.

Korea and Japan are awful with auto sales...they keep the price high at home because they keep other autos out...like ours and then lower the price here to gain market share...it is a bad system...trade is a disaster and played a big role in our loss.

Fusion
Camry
Accord
Sonata


all have base prices of 22 thousand dollars.

You do understand that Japan, Korea, and even Europe don't have open markets for our autos right? As for China, they require you manufacture there and own 51 % of any foreign business.People who say oh we are a service economy...don't get that retail has the lowest profit margin and basically sucks...money is in manufacturing...as for consumers.... most everyone who is poor or working class would trade shitty toasters and other crappy products for jobs that pay good money...factory jobs. You want prosperity and to stop fascism...which Trump represents then stop saying the jobs are not coming back and bring the jobs back...these are not jobs making buggy whips but products still in demand. Hell, I guess we will allow China or whoever to get rich off the new green manufacturing. It makes me sick. I vote for Democrats always...but I hate that many now support free trade.

Just be a big favor to them. I think we will see many of his debts disappear quite soon.

It's all about Trump, the world is his bank account

The checks but he said nothing about cashing them- did he?

then strip all the corporate sovereignty out of it. next remove all the other corporate-benefiting poison pills. then maybe there will be trade components left that will actually benefit working people

Nor have I found very many on discussion boards---None on DU, in fact, but does this mean we just stick with NAFTA--or does Trump plan on pulling out of ALL trade agreements like an asshole? This doesn't seem feasible but I don't fucking know.

They say be careful what you wish for.

It allows slavery you know. It allows companies to sue localities who object to having their water poisoned. It creates a one-way flow of American jobs to Asia...it was always a bad idea. I voted for and worked for Obama despite his views on trade...TPP is gone for good I hope.

I remember when Trudeau was elected in Canada, the "trade has destroyed out country crowd" -- oblivious to technology apparently -- felt he'd opt out of TPP. Well, he's all for TPP and every other trade agreement he can sign. Other countries will do the same and we can sit here trading among ourselves.

I was looking forward to Clinton finishing up the negotiations Obama has been working so hard on.

That means it creates US jobs, and that's why Obama backed it. It also prevents competitors from underselling us by exploiting workers and polluting. That's a plus. And yes there's a mechanism for seeking to enforce its provisions, all of which favor the US. The other signatories were persuaded only after much negotiation to sign onto it. Scrapping it for political theater is inane but that's life in the Twitter lane, sigh..

I bought a Lenovo 15.6 inch computer for $299.00 in cash. With the Trump tax, errrr tariff it would cost $435.00.

But he'll blame that double-digit inflation waiting in the wings on Barack and Hillary. He'll take all the credit for the recovery, we'll take all the blame for his bust. Old story.

I have mixed emotions on TPP and trade deals in general. With proper protections and well negotiated conditions, trade deals can be good. Bad deals can, of course, be very problematic. Frankly, I'm not smart enough, nor ambitious enough to understand TPP, so I have to trust my leaders. Kind of hard to do.

Here in Washington state, a sizable chunk of the economy depends on taking shit off of ships and moving them to trains and trucks, and the converse. Basically "trade." Trade wars would be bad for us and for the rest of the nation.

TPP Is supposed to be a counter-weight to the growing expansionism of China in the West Pacific region. On the whole, I think something in the way of a trade deal would be positive on the whole.

there's a lot of stuff that WA can sell overseas. Obama specifically intended to boost local farm production with this agreement but nobody noticed.

Oh yeah and software and aircraft.

CA benefits from trade. Over a billion dollars worth of cargo comes and goes through the Port Of Los Angeles on a daily basis. We also export our culture (Hollywood), food, and high tech.

In a perfect world trade would be as uninhibited as possible and some of the profits would be earmarked to help those negatively affected by it. Nobody would be left behind.

thanks to Jules and friends and that's a shame. It would have turbo-charged the economy right when we needed it in November and you know the VRWC wasn't about to let that go down.

We won't get TPP but he won't blow up NAFTA nor impose the massive tariffs he brayed about.

I also have more faith in my fellow Americans. I believe we can make stuff people want.

Competition is good. GM and FORD are still the leading car manufacturers in the world and our automobiles are every bit as good as their Asian and European counterparts. You couldn't say that twenty years ago.


The goal is to make trade work for everybody.

Mexico are signing every trade agreement they can. China will muscle in, and create favorable trade alliances, as we try to return to the 1950s by trading among ourselves. But like you say, "hey, we got no TPP."

through no action of der fuhrer. He can't "pull out" of something that isn't even on the table.

during primaries. Anyone supporting trade was branded all kinds of horrible things.

Well, in a few months we get to watch the "we'll be great again trading among ourselves" GOPers take over.

Nor did it bother them he used Mafia quikcrete and used illegal Polish labor to pour it because it needs to be used fast.


We are so screwed.

China is trying to dominate Pacific Asia, as it did historically before 1700. TPP was intended to create a counter balance, a Berlin Wall of free trade, around the Pac Rim. It was flawed, but a noble cause.

That is all but lost now. Trump is the tool of Russia and Russia gains by hamstringing America in the Pacific while Putin comes to dominate eastern Europe.

This is how the ready of the world tools back American power. By 2050 we won't be a super power-- thanks to Donald Trump.

Weekday a shame

when trump says he was pulling out, is somewhat dishonest, since we were not in it yet. As for jobs that will be saved because we are not part of the TPP, I wouldn't count on it. Trump owes at least a half a billion dollars to China, and his decision not to participate in the TPP will give unfettered access to China without any type of competition.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/politics/donald-trump-debt.html?_r=0

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-tpp-idUSKBN13H0OT?il=0

While many may be happy with the results of the deal being gone, no jobs will be created because of us leaving the TPP, and I suspect any possible saved jobs will end up being done in India or China.

As for the TCP pipeline, It looks likely that that is a done deal, and damned be any environmental concerns, or the concerns of Native Americans or the American public.

Incidentally, the TCP will NOT create any real lasting jobs, but no doubt the MSM will say it does, and it will be another distortion and lie

Also, I wouldn't count on oil being any cheaper because of the TCP. Trump has multiple business adventures in saudi arabia, and it will be to his advantage if the price of oil increases, as it would be to Saudi Arabia, and the gulf nations. I hope he won't be able to dismantle the Iran deal, but there is risk he might.

The country literally elected a flim flam man, and we may be taken to the cleaners because of this