If you have her email address I would love to have it. I want to send her a similar letter.

I've sent a plea for her to get the challenge in via her contact from the campaign:

http://hillaryforamerica.zenfolio.com/contact.html

And I nuked 'em.

the results. Easiest jury service ever.

Last edited Wed Nov 23, 2016, 03:03 PM - Edit history (1)

like his fuhrer!

...privately looked at this, in my opinion. What they need would be some solid evidence, local lawmakers to follow suit, and media attention. Republicans are very much in charge, so the battle would be uphill and they would delay anything until after Trump is sworn-in. Still, this is worth investigating. The hacking of DU, where people would be following issues of tampering, is suspicious.

challenge rw radio directly they won't see it.

that is the real orange samson's hair - boycott and call advertisers to all stations,protest the universities that support them www.republiconradio.org

We scoffed (prematurely as it turns out) that he would DARE do such a thing.

Smh.

President Obama, and other Dem leaders would be taking action if they thought there were grounds to do so.

I doubt that random DUers writing frantic emails will sway them.

republican gerrymandering here is unconstitutional. Specially saying it, the gerrymandering, is designed to ensure one political party's dominance over another. That IS rigging in its most obtuse form. So, yeah, lets go. We need to get not only our heads out of the sand, we need to get our asses in gear.

that gerrymandering has no effect on a state-wide race, right?

We're not talking about just general nothingness as Orangutang was. His ego could not allow him to see himself as losing, so he was preparing that as a way to deal with it, that's all. This is different.

would be wrong. The Democratic Party and the national and state governments all have a duty to the nation to make sure the person the voters chose takes office. Whichever candidate that is.

The Republican Party is no longer willing or capable of protecting democracy, is even actively working to overset it, so the duty falls to the rest.

If we don't, then what?

generation, at least. Then more elections will be stolen with approval by the Dem Party that won't contest now. Then we'll get a few token Dems in seats here and there to make it appear as if elections are still fair while, in the meantime, we lose all our hard-fought for rights and corporatism demolishes democracy...and the M$M will normalize that, too.

V for Vendetta movie kind of shows us where we're heading.

be voting in higher numbers as they get older. And increasingly empowered minorities. The demographic progression is in our favor. Even the GOP's supply of resentful, no-college white males is shrinking as more and more of their kids go to college.

Plus, that Wisconsin case where the federal judges found state gerrymandering unconstitutionally favored Republicans may just end up changing everything nationally.

We're in trouble, but we're not out. Yet.

outdated laptops and computers at the State level that are connected to the internet? They can change the totals easily.

That's how they got in, according to Professor J. Alex Halderman, a renowned computer scientist. Upon his suggestions, California banned the most vulnerable voting machines in 2007, and Democrats have been winning more and more seats, now giving Hillary Clinton a sizeable chunk of the over 2 million more votes than the Tangerine-Tyrant has gotten.

Even, and perhaps especially election theft and an electoral college that has become inimical to democracy. We are still a republic.

Snap

Most of them don't f'ing care.
But I do.
Count the votes.

I think voting audits, at least, should be a matter of course, whether we win or lose. Anything that brings the confidence that our votes are counted fairly strengthens democracy. What we have now is much less than that.

and everyone knows it.

we're going to have to challenge somebody

This is the time

Even if it goes nowhere Americans deserve to know what is
happening to democracy

Their lack of spine is at least partly responsible for the ountry's disastrous move to the Right, IMO.

I am so tired of us rolling over every time the GOP runs a train over us. It has never gotten us or the American people anywhere. If we don't start fighting we might as well give up altogether.

to Obama for the last 8 years.

Why is it that in any other country whoever wins the most votes wins, no but we have that pesky EC crap.

you know they did it in 2000, and now 2016 if we don't challenge them it will keep on happening to us, we need to grow a spine.

I have defended Democrats strongly. Those in the Senate now will be put to the test. They must filibuster every single thing and do all they can to block and obstruct the Republicans. It is time to quit being gentlemanly. Surely they know that from the last 6 years.

Or we will all be giving the nazi salute to 'god emperor' Dumpf with his Children of the Sun soon.

and I agree with every word you've said!

Right wing coup-Comey and Putin and lots of American voter suppression. How could anybody that isn't right wing win again with those combos?

but, yes, I agree on the others.

Everyone at the top is concerned with being civil in the face of crumbling civility, which only empowers the uncivil.

Weimar Democrats may doom the world to another enormous body count.

And I'm not that guy -- I love Obama and Hillary. But we're past statesmanship -- it's so 2015.

We're in the Days Of Russian And Racists, and it's going to require Roosevelt and Truman, both of whom had no trouble saying it right out loud, and taking the serious steps needed to fight these bastards.

The stakes are too high for that happy horseshit!

Who is saying that...the DNC?

They think what makes America great is the stock market.

I hope I'm wrong now.

Hillary were to challenge the results of the election. But, it's time to quit worrying about optics and get to the bottom of what the heck happened on November 8th. The data's not adding up and something isn't right. Hillary has never given up in her entire life, and now is not the time to start. There are grounds for a vote audit in multiple states and we need to be applying as much pressure as we can, in every way that we can, before it's too late.


In key states that Hillary was expected to win but ultimately "lost", the numbers show that she under-performed considerably in counties that used electronic voting machines vs counties that used paper ballots and optical scanners. That's a huge red flag.

It's about the good of the country and the world.

We are worried about the future. Imagine if there was another "911" - what this weirdo would do??

I've been terrified at the ithought of a "Trump With Nukes" since the election!

It was very early in the evening when they could get no comments from Clinton campaign.

It is not just a election,between climate change and nukes at that madmans fingers the fate of the planet literally is in question.

we are so fucked.

Unfortunately, Hillary is not going to challenge the election results. Heck, most Democratic Politicians seems to think it is business as usual with Trump and don't seem to understand that the next fascist/nazi has been elected. And they have a horrible history of caving to the Republicans.

Sorry for being so negative but unfortunately, that is the way I see it.

CS

What are they afraid of? What is the reluctance to face what could be the greatest single threat to our way of life and in fact life itself?

Smooth transition? Fuck that. If the election was stolen it's a smooth transition into fascism. Fuck that.

for the sake of America

For US, For AMERICA. It's not about you, like it wasn't about Gore in 2000. It's about fairness to the American voter.

by way of challenging already counted election totals. It would be a miserable 4 yrs and we would blow our defense of the senate by mobilizing GOP voters.

And Obama does not deserve to have his last month filled with the nastiness it would bring. If it is at all possible, I would rather he be able to focus his attention on getting Garland on the SC.

Mango Mussolini 4 years? Do we really?

Do we deserve to have the social safety net shredded?

Look, I get that no one will fight this. I get that no one in the House or Senate will stand up to them, that they will quietly acquiesce to whatever they demand and by the end of four years, we won't be the same country. We'll be a country run by literal Nazis.

Oh, and if no one even peeps about this probable election fraud, they will know that they can do it with impunity every single time.

an iceberg in Hell of getting his nominee to the Supreme Court on the court???

Thanks for pointing it out.

..after all the mockery we heaped on the idea of Drumpf saying the election would be rigged?

How about we spend a fraction of the time spent going on about this to rebuilding our party and starting to find candidates for the midterms and for 2020 and insuring that the actual Democrats who won and hold office fight for us tooth and nail against this corrupt madman.

I had really hoped this place would be a little more introspective and realistic about what went wrong once it was back up, but it's pretty clear we are back to "Hillary cannot fail, she can only be failed."

(Snip)

Voting Machines Fail
The most persistent problems were those that crop up every election cycle, such as closed or relocated polling stations, confusion over new voting requirements, and faulty voting machines. Those and other problems led to long lines in North Carolina and Texas during the popular early voting that preceded Tuesday's balloting.
By mid-afternoon Tuesday, problems being reported included long lines and delayed poll openings in New York; malfunctioning voting machines in Virginia; and confusion with closed or delayed-opening polling places in Georgia and Texas. Among the specific incidents:

In Dover, N.H., misinformation that polls would close at 8 p.m. led officials to extend voting an hour from the pre-planned closing time of 7 p.m. The city is a Democratic stronghold in a crucial battleground state.

In Maricopa County, Ariz., Democratic officials asked a judge to keep polls open for two more hours following problems with voting machines and provisional ballots that caused long lines. The request, like that in Colorado, was denied.
In Washington County, Utah, election officials had to scramble to get electronic voting machines back up and running after machines at many precincts failed to operate immediately after polls opened at 7 a.m. Only 99 of 380 machines had memory cards programmed correctly. Voters were given paper ballots instead.

In Philadelphia, would-be voter Chris Calvert tweeted that both voting machines were broken at his polling place. “No one can vote in our district today. Hundreds of angry voters,” he wrote. Federal law requires election officials to give voters provisional paper ballots in such cases.
In a Detroit precinct in the battleground state of Michigan, the machine that counts ballots was not working from the very beginning of the morning, causing confusion and anger among voters. Workers at the precinct told voters they could either leave their ballots in a secure box to be counted later or wait for a technician.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/11/08/voting-polls-election-day/93201770/

Long article but I just wanted to focus on the voting machines sections for the post but there were many issues that played out this election that must be addressed or we can expect more problems in the future. We know the GOP will continue with its war on voting.

Support, foster, encourage, and nominate candidates who are so inspiring that it couldn't even be close enough to steal.

That's the "new normal"?

and things definitely look fishy. Mostly in the counties that Trump won, in each of those counties Trump saw a DOUBLE DIGIT % increase over the number of votes that Romney got in 2012, while Clinton got a double digit % decrease from the number votes that Obama got in these counties.

Couple this with the fact that in some counties trump had vote totals that were more than 100% more than the amount of registered voters in that county, while Clinton's number of votes compared to that of Dem registered voters decreased significantly.

Nothing can be taken from this correlation directly, except that Clinton was polling well across the state so the likelihood of 20% of voters switching and voting across party lines in the last week is certainly unprecedented. It looks more alarming on the spreadsheet graphic but I am unable to upload it from work here.

Anybody else have any ideas for things to look in to? I'm sure there are plenty of analysts here at DU and you never know when you are going to find that needle in the haystack that everyone else is overlooking.

I have a Ph.D. in physics. The basis of the scientific method is not Occam's razor. It is the comparison of theory with investigation. If you're so scientific minded, you should be in favor of an investigation, so that the hypothesis that the election was hacked can be tested.

If Occam's Razor were as valid as you seem to think it is, Quantum Mechanics would have been scrapped long ago. It is a highly respected theory not because it's simple (it is not), but because it agrees with experiment.

And I never said it was a scientific principle. BTW, congratulations on your PhD.

It is a principle from philosophy. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Politics is a lot closer to philosophy than Quantum Mechanics.

But other than those minor quibbles, you and I agree.

When the people see suggestions that their votes were not counted, that is a question (hypothesis) that can be resolved through an investigation (experiment). This is much closer to science than to philosophy. Occam's Razor is therefore neither here nor there. Nice try, though.

It is applicable to a hypothesis. The more assumptions you have to make about the hypothesis, the less likely it is to be accurate.

If we can find evidence to support the assumptions that have to be made to support a claim that the election was somehow stolen, then the hypothesis would not be so outlandish because there would not be as many unproven assumptions.

Seems to directly apply, but then again, I am not a physicist.

A hypothesis is tested by experiment. That is the scientific method. Occam's Razor is not a part of the scientific method. If it were, there would be no need for experiments. As the ancient Greeks did, we could conclude that planetary orbits are perfect circles and that the Earth is at the center of the universe, since that's the simplest hypothesis.

If you're so wedded to Occam's Razor that you think there should be no investigation because the election was not stolen because election fraud is too complicated a hypothesis, then you must also believe that planetary orbits are circles, and that the earth is a flat disc in the exact center of the universe.

You cannot demand evidence if you are against an investigation. That's like saying you are against analyzing astronomical data to check the hypothesis of circular planetary orbits, etc., because there is no evidence that planetary orbits are not circular, etc.

It's a shame y'all don't have a show. I'd watch!

The bit I could possibly add is a quote I've seen bandied about recently:

"The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine."

I'd submit, only the wheels of science turn slower.

I just got back on DU 2 days ago and reading through just a few threads I realized how screwy things were. I did a bit of research and it doesn't make any sense.

I told my wife last night that her hunch that it was fixed looks to be true. Add in Trump's "it's rigged" projection and the madness of two weeks ago makes sense.

Mostly in the counties that Trump won, in each of those counties Trump saw a DOUBLE DIGIT % increase over the number of votes that Romney got in 2012, while Clinton got a double digit % decrease from the number votes that Obama got in these counties.

When there is real evidence, then we can do something.

Those that keep claiming election fraud without evidence frankly look like sore losers or worse, freepers.

The Democratic Party would destroy its credibility and reputation for reason if it brings forth this claim based on mere speculation and a statistical anomaly in a a couple of districts (which is all we have now).

doesn't have any credibility.

Even these claims about election irregularities are unsubstantiated, there has been a real and public campaign of voter suppression over the past two decades that the Democrats have never even tried to respond to.

The fact that the party is in this position is the fault of the people in leadership not the voters.

Thanks.

Alex Jones does the conspiracy theories. There are enough questions to warrant a recount. From the Guardian:

And I love this quote "A growing number of academics and activists". Sounds exactly like the types of evidence climate change deniers use.

I am frankly getting tired of this effort to make everyone shut up and accept the opposite of what actually happened. Look, I'm pretty sure that they got Comey to do what he did so that people would think there was a legitimate change in opinions and polls. Enough to cover vote manipulation. Enough to hand Trump the presidency.

Now, you don't have to believe it, but quit trying to make everyone else here who has two brain cells and the ability to reason think that they didn't just watch it happen. And seriously don't fucking tell us not to do anything about it. That kind of talk is for people who don't give a shit.

Is get those on this site with "two brain cells" to act like they have brain cells.

I'm all for an investigation into the truth. But most folks are convinced already there was election fraud and there was a conspiracy, despite the fact there is zero real evidence of such other than what they wish was true (or worse, trying to claim that because the polls said one thing, and the election another, it MUST be election fraud, other than just crappy polling).

I'll say this again, we risk being dismissed as crackpots if we don't temper our language.

But, whatevs....

You do you, we'll do us.

when the data is adjusted for controlling factors.


Sheesh - this quote is from one of the strongest supporters of a recount, Halderman himself......


A second group of analysts, led by the National Voting Rights Institute founder John Bonifaz and Professor Alex Halderman, the director of the University of Michigan’s center for computer security and society, is also taking part in the push for a review, and has been in contact with Simons.

It's bullshit. They stole it and all we need is to expose it.

It was their hole card.

Why are you so adamantly against a recount or an audit? What are you afraid of? If there is no wrongdoing, and if Trump is indeed, as you seem to want it to be, your president, then an investigation will reveal that the results were correct and honest. What are you so afraid of?

BTW, it's interesting that many of those who are loudly against an investigation (i.e., posting about it in every thread) are low-post-count members.

What I am against is blanket claims that this has to be a conspiracy and voter fraud because our candidate did not win.

If we can temper our claims to reality, they will be heard louder.

No one is claiming that the election was hacked and that the results should be thrown out without an investigation. What people are saying is that they think the election was hacked and that there should be an audit or an investigation to settle the matter.

I do think it is important to temper our message so we don't come off sounding like loons.

We're just reading the posts differently. I read them as saying, "I'm worried sick that the election was hacked; please do an investigation to settle the matter, and I will accept the results whatever they are." You're reading them as, "The election was hacked, and this is what an investigation is sure to show, if there ever is an investigation." I agree that it's better to state things with less melodrama and more calm reasoning.

What, do prosecuting attorneys just sit around and wait for evidence to fall in their laps?
"Can't issue a subpoena, don't wanna look like an Alex Jones Conspiracy theorist!"

If nothing else to confirm that he was legitimately elected.

For Ruline.

For all the little girls.

For justice.

FIGHT!!!!

If the numbers aren't adding up and they don't add up for Trump, we could be looking at an election crisis. One that might bear out that what we came to expect, actually happened, but was suppressed or padded for Trump.

Call for election audit now! Call your senator. Call DOJ.

why should I fight for her?

If the shoe were on the other foot, sure, the GOP would be litigating it tooth and nail.

But that has never seemed enough to motivate Dems.

It's for America.

then he conceded. He didn't fight at all.

Plus it should be the voters making the demands, not the candidate.

if you count the votes

Other experts have questioned the results in Florida, too. I say audit more states than we need in case we can't find the evidence we need in all of them.