Yeah I know the popular vote totals but Clinton should have won by 15-20%. As Bill Mahr said after the election..."Don't ever say The American voters aren't that stupid. They'll say I'll show you how fuckin' stupid I am!"

Is that the the take-away from your statement that you intended? It's ok for Democrats to lose if it's close?

Obviously, if we get more votes, we should win. Sadly, that is not the World we live in.

Phrase it another way, perhaps? To say that we do not live in a world where we should win if we get more votes is pretty bleak, yet that's just a re-arrangement of the words you used. If you don't mean to imply it, don't say it.

We deserve to have won this. The entire world deserves for us to have won this. If it was hacked, then we may have actually won it and had it stolen, and yet the world will suffer terribly. Stealing an election is a crime, and thus it could be that only a crime prevented the legitimate result of the election.

I would support getting rid of the Electoral College. That's not gonna happen.

Yes I have a "pretty bleak" view of the future and our fellow americans. Shit is going to get a lot worse before it even thinks about getting better.

the pukes now have almost enough State Legislators to call for a Constitutional Convention. How scary is that?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/22/politics/constitutional-convention-explainer/

I am a 54 year old, straight, white male living in red Virginia. I have cut ties with at least 12 people I have known and considered "friends" my whole life since the election. I am angered and sickened by the stupid!

I really haven't seen any solid evidence that this election was hacked or stolen. I would refer you to TPM and Josh Marshall's column on this:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/those-russian-election-hacking-claims

It sucks but we live in a shitty world and I weep for the future.

Well, what you said is right in line with what you think. It implies all is lost, due to inexorable forces.

Your theory about "Shit is going to get a lot worse before it even thinks about getting better" - what example from history do you draw this lesson from? I'd like to suggest to you that you could, maybe, be the unwitting victim of right-wing propaganda. You could fight, instead of encouraging despair.

Italy, Germany, Spain.

Any other fascist examples you need?

Are you actually asserting that there's some sort of natural process going on, and we are fools to fight it? That the Germans, Italians, and Spanish who went along with fascism were in the right as far as nature goes, on the forefront of human evolution? Do you really mean that? Please clarify.

I just don't think there will be enough resistence to Trump's fascism to stop him.
I already see the Media normalizing his outrageous behavior and cabenit picks.

Not helpful. As I said to someone in the Bush years (I can't remember if it's a quote or not):

You can't just roll over and die, you have to make them kill you.

It's a metaphor. This is attrition. It starts with not giving up.

right now.

I don't see a way he wont completely screw up this country.

Every one of his picks is a horror show.

And I see no sign anybody with any authority will fight him on this.

Keep up the fight. You can, at the very least, declare "aloud" that you do not agree with what is happening. As somebody once said, nobody knows enough to be a pessimist.

about what will happen.

So far I see no reason to think it won't.

Getting to be right will be no consolation at all. Start where you are, and progress.

I'll give you the last word now.

I can understand being down, but people (and animals, and plants) around the world need our help on this.

You should not be hassling someone because he is in despair.

Sometimes (oftentimes) I feel the same way, and sometimes I have hope that if we fight we can make this better to some degree.

Both feelings are legitimate.

I too go back and forth between feelings of hopelessness and despair and feeling like we have to get out there and fight It kind of depends upon where my head is at the time.

Exactly right!! Especially our M$M.

That's why I've signed petitions and have written to HRC.

I've a very dysphoric view of the world now. Bill Maher and Michael Moore were right, the crazies have multiplied.



Must watch: "American Fascist" -

It's ridiculous that in a race with a candidate as horrible as Trump and a candidate as qualified as Clinton, that the people of this country did not overwhelmingly vote to elect Clinton. Trump should have only received the 30% mouth breather vote.

the stupidity of the American people.

"Hillary was so much better of a candidate that the race should not have even been close" - more as a what the f**k is wrong with the American people.

We don't know yet, there is no audit.

is because of how she was constantly attacked - and still is even now after the fact - as a weak candidate. It's hard to resist the temptation to point that margin out in the face of those attacks.

Democrats do not deserve to lose elections if they are close.

No argument from me that they don't deserve to lose. I save that for the people who are actually claiming that. Go after those guys.

She could have gotten 10 million more votes and still lost the electoral college.

She could have gotten 99% of the vote from all the blue states and still lost the electoral college.

. . . And some people would still be saying she wasn't likable enough.

Which is probably right, because I've never met a smart sexist....

46.7 percent is not a mandate. It's a minority.

53.3 percent of the American voters voted against him.

nobody had a mandate, but somebody has to win.

Hillary is winning by popular vote, she lost because of the archaic electoral college that favours republican states, but her share of the popular vote is that? If you are talking about the electoral college vote, they have not really voted yet.

to widen.

Cookpolitical.com

orange-haired monster in the white house.

Will buy you a cup of coffee. The electoral college is no mystery- both sides knew what had to be done to win. Sadly, the wrong one did it.

In many countries, such a result would lead to a coalition of sorts.

stupid.

Maybe "we" deserve this.

I sure as hell don't.

Gerrymandering has nothing to do with how the states select the Electors. It doesn't go by Congressional district, it's by state wide vote, by counties. Jesus, doesn't anyone teach civics anymore?

Do you even know what that word means?

Or are you implying that when Thomas Jefferson approved the border for states like Ohio he did it knowing it would Help Donald Trump in 200 years.

December 19th is the actual election. If he gets the majority of the Electors, he will win.

Knowing we're right is all I need to declare all other opinions and votes null and void.

nt

This Butternut Turd is much worse in all kinds of ways.

because they only need 1 more state legislature to add to the 3 branches of federal government they control.

People are going to miss Obama, and a lot of Republican voters are going to miss the services the new congress is going to cut.

I miss having less hate crime and discrimination.

Trump is a clown and is probably the least of our problems. He's already disavowed the alt-right and Bannon disavowed the ethnic part of it.

Their lunatic supporters and the empowered Republican lawmakers are the real problem.

they only have about 53%.

Crazy shit could happen.

Do you really think that someone like him, even as thin-skinned as he is, cares? He has a personal agenda. Treating him as illegitimate won't do anything, what we need to do is push for a recount, and try to get to the 'Electoral College' for them to vote to not allow this person to get to the White House, there is still a chance that the presidency can be voted in favour of HRC, the Electoral College can decide that on December 19, and of course...to push for a recount.

What I fail to understand is, the Democratic Party, knowing ahead of time that the GOP would try to rig the election by hacking computers, etc...why are the democrats never prepared? Why not put some of that budget on each location to make sure that fraud did not happen? Why didn't they fight the disfranchisement? Can someone explain please?

it's not about his fascist grab for power. He will do whatever he wants.
It's about the rest of the country and the media treating him like the American people voted for him to be President. They didn't

not use the term "winner" in any way and also call him the PV loser wherever possible.

Trump won by the rules established when both he and Hillary were nominated by their respective parties. But Hillary did win the popular vote by over 2 million votes, and whenever Trump, Paul Ryan, or anyone else tries to claim that "the American people" want this or that legislation, we need to remind them LOUDLY, that it is 2 million less than half "the people" that they are talking about.

The other issue is that Trump was right! The system is rigged, but he was wrong about who our system is rigged against. If we want to change the electoral college to correct this, we only need to establish by legislation or amendment that those electors should vote for the winner of the national popular vote. Dems could put the Re-thugs on defense opposing such a change, and we need to drag this line out every time the Re-Thugs are involved in any kind of voter suppression. They can argue, and get away with it, that voter fraud exists, but how can they argue against the popular vote?? It will tie their suppression argument up in knots if they are opposing the will of the people, and make their intentions blatantly obvious to all.

and a historical victory.

The time to act is now. They are mad. They want revenge. GIve them revenge.

thanks for all the Recs!

resist every step of the way. i'm exhausted but determined. resist, resist, resist.

We have to win hearts as well as minds so how do we pull the heart strings of the average (math challenged) Americans.

First---make them understand that the hack happened and that it very likely came from outside the country. When a sitting president was selected for a second time due to an exit poll/tabulated vote discrepancy in Ohio in 2004, the average voter said to himself "Everything is fair in American politics." However, he would have been a little bit more alarmed (as in hopping mad) if he thought that another country--say China--had hacked the election. Because the average math challenged American has something analogous to white privilege. Call it U.S. Citizen privilege. He or she knows that if he or she is kidnapped by a foreign power and held hostage, the whole world will take notice. Because we are Americans. Duh.

No American wants to think that he or she has a puppet president. Because then we lose our American privilege.

It's true. In 2004, the Bush administration at least did the American voter the courtesy of trying to prevent tell-tale exit polls by trying to make pollsters stay far away from the polls. It happened early on election day in Ohio. The reliability of exit polls is inversely proportional to distance from polling places (and yes, I know I just waded into deep waters that will make math challenged Americans scream and swim for shore but bear with me, I am getting there). The news media wasn't having any of it. They went to court, got an injunction, did their exit polls--and then made a devil's bargain with the Bush administration in exchange for suppressing the polls--but not before the cow got out of the barn and we learned about them.

Recall that on election night, the Bush family was terrified that the nation would notice the exit poll/tabulated vote discrepancy. The whole family got together on television in a show of mock bravery and they looked like deers caught in a headlight. The fear was palpable. They attacked Fallujah in an attempt to divert the nation. They "came together" over the Tsunami. It was touch and go there for a while.

Did you notice Trump's scared expression on election night? He knew what Poppy Bush knew--that the exit polls would not match the tabulated vote in some key areas. He too was afraid that someone would notice.

So far, the members of the press are acting like penguins at the edge of a cliff. The water below is full of fish and the penguins are hungry. But each of them is afraid to be the first for fear that there are orcas or sharks in the water. They are waiting for someone else to go first.

Who will go first? Won't be KO this time. He does not have a network. I suggest someone who has down home credentials. Like Garrison Keeler. Someone who can talk "plain talk." And he or she needs to explain to Americans that they have just been slapped on the face by a foreign power that thinks that we will not notice that there are discrepancies in the tabulated vote that can not be explained by chance. Use gambling analogies, sports analogies---many American who consider themselves bad at math are pretty good at math when it comes to making a bet. For example---

What would Americans say if the winner of a big lottery turned out to be the second cousin of one of the software programmers? What would they say if certain online poker players seemed to be able to read their opponents cards? What about if a quarterback fumbles the crucial catch in the Superbowl, causing an upset win by the other player? Howe many Americans would sit still for that? Or if the umpire made a stupid call that made the underdogs win the World Series?

From what I hear, Trump just took a dump all over some media celebrities who think they are pretty hot. Media celebrities do not like that. In addition, the press' finest moment in recent memory was Watergate, when the press took down a president whom they hated and who mocked them and threatened to put a media moguls "tits in a ringer" (John Mitchell actually but close enough and they got him, too).

They are probably anticipating more Deep Throat and Watergate action this, time, too. However with Congress in Republican hands, they won't get too far with that. Therefore, if they want to flex their muscles and show that they are important, they need to do it now.

All we have to do is heap massive praise on the first one or two media news penguins to leap into those dangerous, icy fish and shark filled waters. The other side will haver a cross and nails ready, but we can exploit that. A martyr is good for the cause too--and look what martyrdom did for the career of Bill Maher.

"Recount" sounds like. I love math. But I'm weird. The average American hates math, but loves a challenge. They like excitement. They like action. They like to think of themselves as mavericks---

And while we are at it, why aren't self described mavericks like John McCain challenging the vote? Anyone who wants to show that they have political "balls" should be all over this. One on one against Trump in the ring of public opinion. That's a battle arena many Americans would be happy to enter.

"Challenge the election!" Don't "recount the vote."