I'm a military veteran and they shouldn't be disrespecting the flag of this great country. The flag isn't the problem, the people aren't the problem. I didn't put my life on the line to watch them take them down. Find any other way to protest this but that's not the way. I'll step in line with you but don't mess with my flag

If you really are a veteran, you should know that. They teach that shit in boot camp and OCS. Your service and your DUTY is to preserve those Constitutional freedoms for your fellow citizens--to include flag burning.

You remember that comment by Beatrice Evelyn Hall, swiped by Voltaire? http://www.themarysue.com/voltaire-beatrice-evelyn-hall/

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

Or do it.

That's basically the job of military servicemembers when it comes to issues of Constitutional conduct.

You're very talented!

you honestly think Hillary wanted to "take guns away". That's a Fox Noise talking point.

And I point out again that every Boy Scout knows flag etiquette as does every service member.

Again, your inaccuracies are indicative of your continued narrative. read the relevant statute... under the bill, it was illegal if and oinly if attempting to incite violence or if not your own flag.

Next time, try reading the original source material (say, the actual bill) rather than an edited news-clip (Fox News again, eh?)... you'll become more much less biased if you do.

You are right, but ONLY if you own the flag.
Burning someone else's flag is theft and destruction of private property. Which is against the law.

really ugly red hat made in China. And theft is punishable under a number of statutes, depending on where the theft occurs.

One of the problems is that the flag doesn't have the same connotation for all, despite the nation's efforts to indoctrinate all citizens from an early age.

For some, it's a symbol of nationalism, and therefore a negative symbol.

For others not bothered by nationalism, it's a symbol of national propaganda that they've bought into.

And for others, it can be a symbol of both the best and the worst of the nation.

Some treat it as sacred, as if it is some sort of holy relic. Some push back against that idea.

I can't respect nor disrespect a piece of cloth. I can respect or disrespect what it stands for, and I, and all of us, have the right to our own point of view, and the right to express that point of view.

I hear people connecting the flag to "our troops" all the time. I don't. I connect that flag to our government. Since it's supposed to be a government "of the people, by the people, and for the people," it shouldn't be calling for loyalty oaths. It should be serving us.

Just my pov.

to sign up to be the first on te flag-burning list after the Trump Junta retroactively criminalizes flag-burning. So should every patriotic American. In Trumpland, flag burning should be a required civic duty.

What you don't get (o maybe you do and are merely masking it) is that the country this beloved flag of yours repreents ceased to exist on November 9, 2016. RIP Ameica. You were a nice idea while you lasted.

Also I will no longer do the pledge or stand for the anthem. I will turn my back. We no longer have a country with Trump. And I will tell young people to NOT serve in the military.

Vets who supported Trump might as well go fight for the enemy. They have helped put a fascist and bigot in the White House. The VFW and American Legion are also just a bunch of racists and bigots I would never join. Besides I am a Socialist.

The Constitution.

You took an oath, yeah?

"I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States..."

Not the flag, but our Inalienable Rights under the Constitution, which includes Freedom of Speech, even the sort you might find objectionable. The Constitution endures as the immutable foundation for our existence as a nation, while the flag is only a transient symbol that has been frequently co-opted by all manner of self righteous causes to justify their beliefs.

Neither rightly or wrongly, the flag means many different things to many groups of people with diametrically opposing views. Your opinion regarding it, fellow citizen, is no less, and certainly no more, important than anyone else's.

and so am I. When I went into the military 44 years ago because of a low draft number I don't recall saying in the oath that I was protecting the flag. If memory serves me I took an oath to protect the Constitution and and to defend the country.

If this country is so fragile that burning the flag or not displaying the flag will cause harm to this nation this country does not deserve to go forward. Fuck the flag, it's the Constitution that matters and given the USSC has ruled that burning the flag as a political statement is acceptable as long as the flag belongs to the person burning it. My US flag is not your "flag" so you might want to back off.

the military is under the civilian power. You only fight when the People send you and then you fight supposedly for their right to free speech, etc. If you oppose that, you are fighting for a US that does not exist.

I certainly have never heard (or saw) a progressive or forward thinker express something along what you have expressed

I prefer someone that burns the flag and then wraps themself in the constitution over someone that wraps themself in the flag and burns the constitution.

As a veteran I am shocked that it does not distress you that the president elect has no knowledge or understanding of the US Constitution.

people get so hyped up about a flag but ignore what it is supposed to represent.

To some people it seems like it is some sort of battle flag and they don't even get what it stands for. When they don't get that we don't have to fly it or can burn it, it proves they don't know what it symbolizes.

I swear some of these people literally worship the flag, not even the country it represents, but the piece of cloth itself. It's pretty obvious when they use words like "desecration" when they talk about people burning or trampling flags.

my own.

or exile those who do. Then flag burning became a civic duty. We've got to flood the jails and prisons with resisters. Make the system choke on its own contradictions.

My stand is in transition now that there is talk of it becoming criminal.
It would then be a civic duty, a sickening one, but one I would support... Though I don't think I could.

Whereas I could proudly lie and register as a Muslim... My family history demands it.

If one can be imprisoned or exiled for burning a flag, then you truly would only be burning a piece of cloth, one that used to represent something meaningful and important but no longer does.

My faith in this nation and it's people doesn't fade with a setback.. If you have given up, we don't need you.

If it comes to be that people can be imprisoned or exiled for burning a flag, then I will probably think differently. It won't be the same country anymore, if things like that go on.

And part of WE is them, so yes they do own the fucking flag.

At the same time what more basic symbol of America is there? If you have come to the conclusion that America is a failed experiment and we should do something else, I guess I can see removing the flag in that case.

Bryant

They appear to be peacefully exercising their right to assemble. I have exactly zero problem with this.

And I respect their service.

Just because they think the flag represents sacrifice.

this (same era)

And if they want to protest some asses burning a flag, because their feelings are hurt by it - good.

good, the bad and the VERY ugly.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." ~Samuel Johnson

"Yesterday, December seventh, 1941, a date which will live in infamy, the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan. No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people will through their righteous might win through to absolute victory...We will gain the inevitable triumph, so help us God."

Franklin D. Roosevelt

flag. Fuck that. In Trumpland, burning the flag becomes a civic duty.

Over 360,000 Union soldiers died.

What are you saying, precisely?

There's no law against a gaggle of veterans (or people playing at being veterans) acting like morons who don't remember their oath of enlistment or commission, but it's certainly nothing to be PROUD about.

Our Constitution--that document Trump is shredding with his remarks--allows for First Amendment expression, even when that expression is not to one's taste. Trump wants to criminalize First Amendment expression. Tsk, tsk.

that is cool, and totally understandable.

They are not protesting flag burning, but flag banning.

So, what was that again about pretenders?

I've been participating in this thread much longer than you have. I was discussing this matter yesterday, right here, before you showed up.

Pretender? Look in your mirror! And dial back the snark.

The issue at hand is the First Amendment to the Constitution.

Any use of the flag--for burning, for putting at half staff, flying upside - down, etc. -- is CONSTITUTIONALLY protected. You can even wipe your ass on it, if it's your own flag and not one you swiped from someone.

Does that work for you?

Do what you want with the flag, have at it.

But do try and stay on topic, and know what the protest was about... or were you just counting on blind kudus to your silly segue?

I was having a discussion when you jumped in and started getting personal with characterizations of me and my "bile."

You behaved uncivilly.

And there you go.

Ta!

Which wasn't even mentioned here.

They are saying that it is totally reasonable and understandable for anyone, including those who took an oath to support the constitution (like me) to protest against flag-burning.

First amendment indeed.

a First Amendment protected activity.

Activists stood in front of the Trump International Hotel in New York City in a video posted on Wednesday night to burn two U.S. flags.


“Just burned US flag at Trump Hotel NYC. We REFUSE to Accept a Fascist America! Now your turn: #FlagBurningChallenge,” Sunsara Taylor tweeted.

The video features several members from the NYC Revolution Club, which announced the protest on Twitter ahead of the event.

“We burn this flag for the people of the world,” said an activist in the video.

Several other users also took to social media to share footage burning flags with the #FlagBurningChallenge hashtag.

“I’m so here for this #FlagBurningChallenge,” tweeted one user.

http://nypost.com/2016/11/30/flag-burning-challenge-launches-after-trumps-tweet/

Never thought I'd see NY POST reporting on First Amendment issues without snarking about "hippie activists" or something on those lines.

Perhaps they're nervous about their Constitutional rights, too...?

...when we complain about perfectly legal activities that WE disagree with?

The protest had nothing to do with flag burning. The protest is about a university's decision that flying the flag of the US is too controversial for its students. That decision strikes me as a completely insane position for a university to take.

I swear most people don't even read the articles before they respond.

And, you are absolutely correct. The flag is the symbol of this country, and if the little snowflakes are that offended, how in the hell are they going to get along once they are out of college?

It's the symbol of our nation - the good, the bad, and the ugly.

I can't say it bothers me whether they fly the flag or not but if they want to protest the college have at it.

As for burning the flag mentioned in this thread I find it appalling but it is a protected form of political speech and it should not change.

Any business not flying the flag will be boycotted, picketed, etc.

Why do people make such a big deal out of it? I surmise it may mean something other than the Bill of Rights and the rule of law to them. Do they think it's the real thing?

He's baiting and switching his own dumb-ass base!

Hey, you two-toothed nitwit! Look over here, at this flag controversy, and pay no attention to the fact that I might put someone you froggy racists don't like in the SECSTATE job....

BTW, what a bullshit diversion.

guaranteed. The flag should be flown upside down from now on. This is and will remain a ship of state in extreme distress.