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TheBlackAdder

(28,209 posts)
Mon Nov 28, 2016, 02:06 PM Nov 2016

The Battle Begins As Wisconsin Denies Jill Stein Request For Statewide Hand Recount (x-post)

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Cross-post from the 2016 Postmortem

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512630923


Summary...

The Wisconsin Elections Commission has denied a request by Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein for a hand recount of all ballots.

The AP reported, “The Wisconsin Elections Commission has voted unanimously to reject a request from Green Party candidate Jill Stein to conduct a hand recount of the presidential vote. Instead, the commission Monday voted to allow local election clerks to determine the method they would use for a recount.”

Stein can appeal, and ask a judge to order the recount by hand, but it appears that the plan is to simply run the same ballots through the voting machines again. Running the ballots through the machines again will accomplish nothing, as Stein is claiming that the election system is not secure and could have been compromised.



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The Battle Begins As Wisconsin Denies Jill Stein Request For Statewide Hand Recount (x-post) (Original Post) TheBlackAdder Nov 2016 OP
I read the Wisconsin recount rules last week frazzled Nov 2016 #1
If I remember right, the election commission was recently jiggered to protect walker. shraby Nov 2016 #2
That may be true, but frazzled Nov 2016 #3
3 Dems 2 pubs, D chairman Amishman Nov 2016 #6
Here is what the Wisconsin recount manual says dragonlady Nov 2016 #8
Those rules assume honest intentions on all election officials bhikkhu Nov 2016 #4
Trump and his Russian backers are afraid of a hand recount. Tactical Peek Nov 2016 #5
Of course WI did that. MineralMan Nov 2016 #7

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
1. I read the Wisconsin recount rules last week
Mon Nov 28, 2016, 02:09 PM
Nov 2016

and posted them here with a link. This is what I said would happen, because that is what the state law allows for: just a county-by-county retabulation of the votes, by the same people who did it the first time. This should be no surprise, and it's why I didn't contribute.

shraby

(21,946 posts)
2. If I remember right, the election commission was recently jiggered to protect walker.
Mon Nov 28, 2016, 02:12 PM
Nov 2016

It's not surprising they pulled this.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
3. That may be true, but
Mon Nov 28, 2016, 02:16 PM
Nov 2016

Stein knew what the rules were there (or should have—it's easy as heck to google). It was a scam from the beginning, and she had no standing to demand anything more than what the rules provide, given her own meager vote count.

dragonlady

(3,577 posts)
8. Here is what the Wisconsin recount manual says
Mon Nov 28, 2016, 06:56 PM
Nov 2016
The original memory device for the voting equipment from election day cannot be cleared and reprogrammed for use at the recount, so an alternative memory device must be acquired for use at the recount. Wis Stat. sec 7.23 (1)(g), 2 (page 11).


It also says

Each ballot shall be reviewed by the board of canvassers and may be inspected by the candidates or their representatives before being inserted into the tabulator. If it appears the ballot may not be recorded correctly by the tabulator, or if the ballot is objected to, the ballot is set aside to be examined by the board of canvassers for voter intent and counted separately by hand (page 12).

bhikkhu

(10,718 posts)
4. Those rules assume honest intentions on all election officials
Mon Nov 28, 2016, 02:28 PM
Nov 2016

...which is an absurd assumption, given the situation. If an election official is suspected of cheating or negligence, they are just being asked to look and their own numbers and method and fess up or not - no independent eyes involved. If businesses were run that way we'd be Zimbabwe.

An independent election audit would be the sane solution in any serious democracy.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
7. Of course WI did that.
Mon Nov 28, 2016, 05:01 PM
Nov 2016

A hand recount would take far longer and might not even be completed before the EC votes. We've had two of those here in Minnesota. It took months before Al Franken was seated in the Senate after everyone else was.

As near as I can tell, this is in line with Wisconsin election laws for recounts. I believe Wisconsin conducts hand recounts for random precincts after every election as a check on the process. Minnesota does the same. But those take place after the official canvass is completed. They're more a way to verify the process than anything else and aren't part of the official results.

Hand recounts are rare and generally involve the courts. The ones in Minnesota did, which is why they took so long. There were multiple challenges that had to pass through our state Supreme Court. In the end, Al Franken was seated, but long after the congressional term had started. MN was without one of its Senators until then.

Sadly, we often don't understand how these things are actually done. When we find out, we're often surprised.

In PA, for example, most precincts used machine voting with no paper trail. A recount there will produce the same results as the original count, because a hand recount is impossible in most places.

I don't know what Michigan does with voting, frankly. But, a recount there will probably be a redo of the original count, as in WI. I'd have to look at the laws about election recounts there.

Again, putting our hopes on these recounts is going to result in disappointment.

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