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Sgent

(5,857 posts)
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:25 PM Dec 2016

VOX: Why "Baby, It's Cold Outside" became an annual controversy about date rape and consent

When you first hear it, the song seems like a cute, flirty call-and-response duet between a man and his lady friend who are debating whether she should stay the night. On the one hand, what would her parents or the neighbors think? On the other hand, it’s just so cold outside. The ending is ambiguous, but it’s implied that she decides to stay after all, keeping them both warm on a cold winter’s night.

But when you listen closer, the song’s lyrics also seem, well ... a little rapey. The guy ignores his date’s protests and badgers her to stay, which feels a lot like sexual coercion. At one point the woman asks, “Say, what’s in this drink?” — which is pretty alarming to a modern audience that understands how roofies work. The original score even lists the man’s part as “Wolf” and the woman’s part as “Mouse,” making the predator/prey dynamic creepily explicit.

The song’s legions of defenders argue that those concerns are overblown. They note “What’s in this drink?” was a common joke in the 1930s and ’40s made by people who wanted to make an excuse for something that they knew very well they shouldn’t be doing. And in that more prudish time period, women were expected to turn down sex (at first, anyway) even if they wanted it.

The vastly different ways people hear the same short song have set off an annual internet battle over its feminist merits. For every think piece calling it a “date-rape anthem,” there’s a corresponding “Oh, come on” take about how oversensitive “social justice warriors” are killing romance and seduction and taking the song’s lyrics out of context.

http://www.vox.com/identities/2016/12/19/13885552/baby-its-cold-outside-feminist-date-rape-romantic

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VOX: Why "Baby, It's Cold Outside" became an annual controversy about date rape and consent (Original Post) Sgent Dec 2016 OP
Google "I've Got Some Presents for Santa" at your own risk. rzemanfl Dec 2016 #1
And it was written by Bill Mumy of Lost in Space Fame. nolabear Dec 2016 #13
Link? Initech Dec 2016 #2
Sorry just added the link via edit Sgent Dec 2016 #3
Only enthusiastic consent is real consent MineralMan Dec 2016 #4
I've always thought that song was a little creepy. beaglelover Dec 2016 #5
Soapbox time. There are few Xmas songs I hate TlalocW Dec 2016 #6
Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #7
Try the one I posted about at #1. n/t rzemanfl Dec 2016 #8
Yeah, I don't like that one either! Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #9
Bah humbug to you too. rzemanfl Dec 2016 #10
Here's my kind of Christmas song. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #11
"The woman I heard at least had a pleasant singing voice..." EX500rider Dec 2016 #16
True. Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #18
You'll love this one then Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Dec 2016 #14
Kind of silly, but... Buckeye_Democrat Dec 2016 #15
Totally a creepy date-rape song. Can't stand it. Ranks down there with Coventina Dec 2016 #12
Vox Media Is Sponsored by Goldman Sachs yortsed snacilbuper Dec 2016 #17
Mostly an issue severe changes in culture zipplewrath Dec 2016 #19
Ultimately whether you find it creepy or not TlalocW Dec 2016 #20

rzemanfl

(29,581 posts)
1. Google "I've Got Some Presents for Santa" at your own risk.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:42 PM
Dec 2016

Sarah Taylor, daughter of James Taylor and Carly Simon sings it.

TlalocW

(15,394 posts)
6. Soapbox time. There are few Xmas songs I hate
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:03 PM
Dec 2016

But this is one partly because I don't understand how it's a Christmas song. The other part of not liking it is the creepiness of it. Another song I don't understand how it's a Christmas song is Pentatonix's version of, "Hallelujah." There is nothing in the lyrics to connect it to Christmas except the second stanza which refers to Samson and Delilah and David and Bathsheba, and according to the Bible, David is an ancestor of Jesus.

Anyway, there are few Xmas songs that make me punch the change station button on my car's radio with the fury of a white hot supernova, but "Cold Outside" is one. "Christmas Shoes," is another and then any covers by Kenny G, Harry Connick, Jr., or Michael Buble torture me with their white-bread blandness.

Do you see what he's doing to that present? HE'S FARTING ON IT, and it's symbolic for what he does to music in general and Christmas carols in particular!

I feel better.

TlalocW

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,860 posts)
7. Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:13 PM
Dec 2016

That's the worst one for me. I cringed from the first time I heard it, and my patience for it keeps decreasing over time. I think I'm down to a few tenths of a second before I shut off a radio station playing it.

Ray Stevens songs like "The Streak" repulsed me as a little kid in the 70's too. That and the show "Hee Haw."

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,860 posts)
9. Yeah, I don't like that one either!
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:24 PM
Dec 2016

I don't think I've heard it before now.

The woman I heard at least had a pleasant singing voice, but the lyrics suck.

EX500rider

(10,888 posts)
16. "The woman I heard at least had a pleasant singing voice..."
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:18 PM
Dec 2016

I'd be very surprised if the daughter of James Taylor and Carly Simon didn't have a great singing voice.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,860 posts)
18. True.
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:22 PM
Dec 2016


EDIT: I wasn't sure at first who was singing in the video that I quickly found online, but it was her.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,860 posts)
15. Kind of silly, but...
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 09:58 PM
Dec 2016

... that one didn't produce visceral dislike for me.

If it was in a hillbilly voice and played to raucous laughter on something like "The Bob and Tom Show," I'd hate it more.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
19. Mostly an issue severe changes in culture
Mon Dec 19, 2016, 10:54 PM
Dec 2016

Language and culture evolve over time and words and meaning change.

That said, it's also a case that people of the time saw this as innocent flirting, not realizing how often these same conversations weren't innocent flirting. Over time we learn.

Watch the old Arthur movies and realize that at the time such drunken driving would be seen as "funny".

TlalocW

(15,394 posts)
20. Ultimately whether you find it creepy or not
Tue Dec 27, 2016, 04:31 PM
Dec 2016

It is about a dude trying to get laid, no matter what the era.

And isn't that what Christmas is all about?

TlalocW

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