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leveymg

(36,418 posts)
Sat Jun 23, 2012, 12:45 PM Jun 2012

Opposition Video Shows Homs Not Destroyed by Massed Artillery, as Reported.

This may be a classic case of uncoordinated messaging. In March, the NYT and much of the western media were claiming that the opposition stronghold of Homs was under massive artillery bombardment. However, a new video taken from inside the city shows relatively light damage to structures and scattered gunfights, rather than entire blocks and neighborhoods in ruins.

Video: "A Ten Minute Scooter Ride Through Homs, Syria." http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=36381

That video, originally posted at an opposition web site --http://www.sawtbeirut.com/-- shows there has been some street fighting and targeted shelling of individual buildings. Not a wasteland of destruction, as described by the opposition and captive western media.

By comparison, this is what a city really looks like after massed artillery or aerial bombardment:

Beirut, Lebanon (2006)



Grozny, Chechnya (1995)



Beirut, Lebanon (1982)



Beirut, Lebanon (1975)(car bombing)



Here's how it's been (mis)described (nyt):

UN Relief Official Tells of Destruction in Syria - The New York Times
www.nytimes.com/.../syria-rebels-said-to-reject-peace-talks.html?...all
Mar 9, 2012 – U.N. Relief Chief Tells of Horrific Destruction in Syria and Official ... Amr, a neighborhood in the Syrian city of Homs that was subjected to a ...

As Diplomats Visit Damascus, Video Shows Bombardment in Homs ...
thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/.../as-diplomats-visit-damascus-video-sho...
Feb 7, 2012 – The Lede - The New York Times News Blog ... said that many saw in the scale of the destruction in Homs an echo of the the devastating siege ...



Search Results

Filming Homs's horrors | FP Passport
blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/02/10/filming_homss_horrors
Feb 10, 2012 – President Bashar al-Assad's assault on Homs continues, and the world has ... a ground-level view of the destruction of Syria's third-largest city.
Syria - Destruction in Homs by Assad Artillery Assault - Update by ...
► 4:48► 4:48

13, 2012 - 5 min - Uploaded by Souria2011archives
Kharm Alzeitoun, Homs City -- The inhuman fascist siege of the City of Homs and the Baba Amr District is ...
Syria - Destruction in Homs as Dictator Assad Army Attacks - YouTube
► 0:30► 0:30

24, 2012 - 30 sec - Uploaded by Souria2011archives
Human Carnage and Mass Destruction in Homs as Syria Dictator Bashar Assad Attack the besieged City of ...
4 days ago – Media: 958. More info... Walking around seeing all the destroyed stuff, ghost town on the street level. and some yingyang graffiti at the end?
Satellite images from space showing the destruction in Homs ...
www.democraticunderground.com/1002291872
3 posts - 2 authors - Feb 10
Satellite images from space showing the destruction in Homs. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/02/10/exp-jk-syria-wall-segment.
Syria's Homs Destruction: Shelling Shatters Northern City (PHOTOS)
www.huffingtonpost.com/.../syrias-homs-destruction_n_1431781.ht...
Apr 17, 2012 – After months of shelling by security forces parts of Syria's city of Homs are left in ruins.
After the Destruction of Homs
www.free-lebanon.net/syria/after-the-destruction-of-homs/
Mar 9, 2012 – WHY ARE EHUD BARAK & KOFI ANAN GIVING ASSAD A GREEN LIGHT TO DO MORE KILLINGS? THE US SHOULDN'T BE LISTENING TO ...



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leveymg

(36,418 posts)
3. Those shots show a building and damaged cars - not massed artillery damage
Sat Jun 23, 2012, 01:12 PM
Jun 2012

We've seen what that looks like. That ain't it.

bhikkhu

(10,722 posts)
10. Is that how the Minister of Information described it?
Sat Jun 23, 2012, 01:21 PM
Jun 2012

I can't even imagine the mindset of someone that would go out of the way to assemble a bunch of pictures and articles to minimize the effects of an artillery attack on a civilian city.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
12. There's a whole training corps of Judith Miller-Lites here, and you think I work for the Ministry?
Sat Jun 23, 2012, 01:40 PM
Jun 2012
"This has called into question the judgment of the newspaper that I rely on."
Judith Miller


10/29/2001, Michael Leeden, American Enterprise Institute

"Just wage a total war against these tyrants; I think we will do very well and our children will sing great songs about us years from now."

02/13/2002, Kenneth Adelman, a member of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board

"Liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk."

09/18/2002, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense (before Congress)

"We do know that the Iraqi regime has chemical and biological weapons. His regime has amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of chemical weapons -- including VX, sarin, cyclosarin and mustard gas. ... His regime has amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of biological weapons—including anthrax and botulism toxin, and possibly smallpox." (presentation to Congress)

10/7/2002, George W. Bush, President

"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."

11/01/2002, George W. Bush, President

"... for the sake of protecting our friends and allies, the United States will lead a mighty coalition of freedom-loving nations and disarm Saddam Hussein. See, I can't imagine what was going through the mind of this enemy when they hit us. They probably thought the national religion was materialism, that we were so selfish and so self-absorbed that after 9/11/2001 this mighty nation would take a couple of steps back and file a lawsuit.

11/14/2002, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense

"I'm glad you asked. It has nothing to do with oil, literally nothing to do with oil."

11/15/2002, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense

"Five days or five months, but it certainly isn't going to last longer."

01/10/2003, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense

"... something under $50 billion for the cost. How much of that would be the U.S. burden, and how much would be other countries, is an open question.”

02/08/2003, George W. Bush, President

"We also know that Iraq is harboring a terrorist network headed by a senior al Qaeda terrorist planner. This network runs a poison and explosive training camp in northeast Iraq, and many of its leaders are known to be in Baghdad."

03/16/2003, Dick Cheney, Vice President

"My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . [in] weeks rather than months."

03 / 19 / 2003. Start of Iraq War
03/22/2003, General Tommy Franks

"There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. As this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them."

03/27/2003, Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Defense Secretary

"There’s a lot of money to pay for this ... the oil revenues of that country could bring between $50 and $100 billion over the course of the next two or three years…We’re dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon.”

03/30/2003, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense

"We know where they are [Iraq's weapons of mass destruction]. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

05/01/2003, George W. Bush, President

"My fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended." Under the banner "Mission Accomplished."

05/09/2003, Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Defense Secretary (phone interview with Vanity Fair)

"The truth is that for reasons that have a lot to do with the U.S. government bureaucracy we settled on the one issue that everyone could agree on which was weapons of mass destruction as the core reason, but -- hold on one second... [Interupted by DOD attorney]."

07/02/2003, George W. Bush, President

"There are some who feel like -- that the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is, bring 'em on! We've got the force necessary ..."

07/24/2003, Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense

"No. That's someone else's business. Quagmire is -- I don't do quagmires."

09/14/2003, Dick Cheney, Vice President

"If we're successful in Iraq ... we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11."

09/17/2003, George W. Bush, President

Q: Mr. President, Dr. Rice and Secretary Rumsfeld both said yesterday that they have seen no evidence that Iraq had anything to do with September 11th. THE PRESIDENT: "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the September 11th."

06/28/2004, Dick Cheney, Vice President

"Two days ahead of schedule, the world witnessed the arrival of a free and sovereign Iraq."

03/31/2005, President's Commission on WMD

We conclude that the Intelligence Community was dead wrong in almost all of its pre-war judgments about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. —Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction (Letter of transmittal pdf)

06/29/2005, Dick Cheney, Vice President

I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency.

03/18/2006, Dick Cheney, Vice President,

"Q: About a year ago, you said that the insurgency in Iraq was in its final throes. Do you still believe this? Cheney: Yes."

05/22/2006, George W. Bush, President

"We have now reached a turning point in the struggle between freedom and terror."

09/10/2006, Dick Cheney, Vice President

"If we had to do it over again we would do exactly the same thing." Q: Exactly the same thing? Cheney: Yes, Sir.


bhikkhu

(10,722 posts)
13. Ok, so Syria is Iraq
Sat Jun 23, 2012, 03:45 PM
Jun 2012

I'd imagine that the people who live(d) in Homs would be amused to find that out.

If anything, we might have learned that different countries are different countries, and different situations are different situations, and different people are different people - otherwise you wind up saying Homs if fine because its not Hiroshima, and Assad is fine because he's not Hitler, and Obama needs to back off Syria because he might be Cheney, and so forth...

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
15. The NYT, MSM and USG all lied about Syria, as they did about Iraq. Or, is that news to you?
Sat Jun 23, 2012, 04:20 PM
Jun 2012

I don't think that's overgeneralizing. I think the people of Homs and those of Fallujah would likely agree on that, as would the citizens of Damascus and Baghdad.

riverwalker

(8,694 posts)
2. so if it's not Hiroshima
Sat Jun 23, 2012, 01:09 PM
Jun 2012

it's not an atrocity, because a few buildings are still standing?
I don't get the point.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
7. It was uniformly described in the MSM as "massacre", a "city beseiged". A propaganda offensive
Sat Jun 23, 2012, 01:17 PM
Jun 2012

is what that earlier reporting turns out to have been.

Have you seen any video from inside Homs before? Believe me, if this was Hiroshima (or Hama (1982), Beirut, or Grozny), you would have seen evidence of that.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
6. Yeah, if Grozny's the yardstick for this sort of thing then nothing's been "really" shelled ever.
Reply to KG (Reply #4)
Sat Jun 23, 2012, 01:17 PM
Jun 2012

You can see the artillery scarring in and around Grozny from orbit even now. Nothing that's happened in any of the Arab countries the last few years - or Afghanistan and Iraq for that matter - can compare to what happened to that city.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
14. "In war, truth is the first casualty." Aeschylus Greek tragic dramatist (525 BC - 456 BC)
Sat Jun 23, 2012, 03:58 PM
Jun 2012

And, all sides use lies, hire and pay people to make them up, and relay them to the public with straight faces.

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