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Does this administration have the right to fire career civil servants? (Original Post) malaise Jan 2017 OP
Good question. I don't know the answer. MineralMan Jan 2017 #1
CNN website is painting this as normal practice? still_one Jan 2017 #2
cnn is also reporting they were fired, not resigned. spanone Jan 2017 #4
As I read it they are talking out of both sides of their mouth still_one Jan 2017 #6
They tendered their resignations per custom hack89 Jan 2017 #10
... spanone Jan 2017 #11
It depends. djg21 Jan 2017 #21
Generally, no ... Sunny05 Jan 2017 #3
I believe they can be laid off sharp_stick Jan 2017 #5
How much time and money did the gop waste in the 90's investigating travelgate?? nt wiggs Jan 2017 #7
There are several layers of government employees. marybourg Jan 2017 #8
Until Trump adjusts their salary to $1 exboyfil Jan 2017 #18
Likely to be ruled an Unconstituitional Bill of Attainder. NutmegYankee Jan 2017 #23
Certain positions are filled by the President hack89 Jan 2017 #9
no these people were separated from working for the federal government, geek tragedy Jan 2017 #22
ok. nt hack89 Jan 2017 #24
I would think that would depend on their classification alarimer Jan 2017 #12
How is trump going mercuryblues Jan 2017 #13
Outsource. Tommy_Carcetti Jan 2017 #14
He hasn't thought that part out..... SammyWinstonJack Jan 2017 #15
Please remember that malaise Jan 2017 #20
If it's a civil service job, they have to follow the personnel code. TygrBright Jan 2017 #16
NO! We have due process Drahthaardogs Jan 2017 #17
If this is in reference to the State Department leadership onenote Jan 2017 #19

spanone

(135,877 posts)
11. ...
Thu Jan 26, 2017, 04:05 PM
Jan 2017
The State Department’s entire senior-level management staff resigned on Wednesday, The Washington Post reported. CNN later reported that the officials were actually fired by the Trump administration as part of an effort to “clean house.” Patrick Kennedy, the under-secretary for management, was reportedly aiming to stay with the department, but resigned suddenly on Wednesday along with his top staffers described by the Post as “career foreign service officers.” It was unclear why exactly

Kennedy, who was working closely on the department’s transition after Donald Trump was elected president, decided to call it quits. David Wade, former chief of staff for

John Kerry, called it “the single biggest simultaneous departure of institutional memory that anyone can remember, and that’s incredibly difficult to replicate.” He added that such positions are extremely difficult to fill. Those who left were reportedly career foreign-service officers who’ve served in both Republican and Democratic administrations.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2017/01/26/report-all-senior-state-dept-management-officials-resign.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl
 

djg21

(1,803 posts)
21. It depends.
Thu Jan 26, 2017, 07:35 PM
Jan 2017

If they are actually civil service employees, as opposed to political appointees who serve at the pleasure of the chief executive. High level positions tend to be political.

Sunny05

(865 posts)
3. Generally, no ...
Thu Jan 26, 2017, 03:45 PM
Jan 2017

not at all like a political appointee. I mean, if he or one of his own conjured up excuse to fire based on supposed misdeeds that violate rules, terms of employment, then maybe they would get away with it, unfortunately. But you are correct in that there is a difference -- or at least there was -- a big difference, even, between appointees and career civil servants.

marybourg

(12,634 posts)
8. There are several layers of government employees.
Thu Jan 26, 2017, 03:59 PM
Jan 2017

Political appointees, which the State Department officials were, "serve at the pleasure of the President".

Ordinary civil service employees - the people who help you at Social Security or who answer the phone at the IRS -are immune from political interference.

There may be another classification in between the two; I'm not sure.

NutmegYankee

(16,201 posts)
23. Likely to be ruled an Unconstituitional Bill of Attainder.
Thu Jan 26, 2017, 07:53 PM
Jan 2017

In United States v. Lovett, 328 U.S. 303 (1946), the Court confronted a federal law that named three people as subversive and excluded them from federal employment. Previously, the Court had held that lack of judicial trial and the narrow way in which the law rationally achieved its goals were the only tests of a bill of attainder. But the Lovett Court said that a bill of attainder 1) Specifically identified the people to be punished; 2) Imposed punishment; and 3) Did so without benefit of judicial trial.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
9. Certain positions are filled by the President
Thu Jan 26, 2017, 03:59 PM
Jan 2017

they serve at his or her pleasure. That doesn't mean they are kicked out of the government - they are merely moved to another position.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
22. no these people were separated from working for the federal government,
Thu Jan 26, 2017, 07:38 PM
Jan 2017

because Trump and Bannon (a) don't believe in practicing diplomacy and (b) want to purge the State Department of people who have risen via merit and replace them with their fascist puppets

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
12. I would think that would depend on their classification
Thu Jan 26, 2017, 04:12 PM
Jan 2017

The Civil Service system exists as it does to prevent overtly political firing and hiring. It was put in place to prevent the sort of patronage that used to go on.

TygrBright

(20,767 posts)
16. If it's a civil service job, they have to follow the personnel code.
Thu Jan 26, 2017, 04:27 PM
Jan 2017

But that does allow RIFs and restructuring.

However, I believe that if substantially similar jobs are then created in the same job category, the RIF'd employees have preferential consideration in hiring.

There's a lot of ways to bend and wiggle, but at some point the public employees unions are going to become an issue.

May take a while, though.

wearily,
Bright

onenote

(42,763 posts)
19. If this is in reference to the State Department leadership
Thu Jan 26, 2017, 06:10 PM
Jan 2017

they were all, I believe, currently were presidential appointees and thus subject to dismissal.

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