Sid

So you might as well wait till something bites THEM on the ass.

JPR finally discovered that one of their founding mods is a Trump LOVER and banned him. Watching them defend Trump and blame democrats during the Women's March was priceless. They keep deleting all of my favorite threads over there. Glad to see them there and not here polluting up our space anymore with that RW crap

They know how to stick around and try to 'blend'. Russia trains their cyber trolls very well

who pushed LIES and Propaganda on Hillary.

Dangerous#1 Dangerous#2 Dangerous#3 stein on trump & Hillary

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

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.....someone here is going to chastise me and make all kinds of excuses for her, at which point you and I will make sure the truth does not go down the memory hole.

Just left click on the tweet and it will take you to the Original Tweet and then you click on the downward > arrow by "Follow".. and "copy link to tweet".. and copy the tweet url and embed it in your post.

Link to tweet

They broke it and now they own it. It's time they suck it up and stop expecting others to hide their shame.

Even in the slightest, expect that your post will be reported and deleted.

You sure about that? I'm on 3 to 5 juries per day. I vote to keep more often than i vote to get rid of a post because i'm not that open to interpreting the rules. This post by DanTex doesn't come within a light year of something i would hide, had i been on that jury.

I know some probably interpreted it as refighting the primary, but i wouldn't have.

I was on a lot of juries too. The minor things that got reported began to annoy me and IMO, some of the rules seems to restrict discussion a little too much when applied to rigidly, which seemed to be happening more often than not.

Are you vehemently agreeing with me, or did you misinterpret my post?

I was thinking of when I'd been hit with the same unfounded charges as the OP.

I got a post removed earlier that wasn't anywhere near as bad as the OP here or many replies. I got reported for re-fighting the democratic primaries but my post was on the thread about the elders being arrested at the protest site of Dakota Access. I said something along the lines of every time the administration pulls some new awful stunt my anger with Jill Stein and the anti-Hillary voters comes back again. It got reported and deleted. I appealed it. Jill Stein wasn't even a candidate in the Democratic Primary for cripes sakes. Then I looked, and sure enough...there is a familiar name on that thread of someone who I disagreed with previously who I suspect likes to vindictively report people. Not sure if there is a way to track if the same person keeps reporting one person or not, but if there isn't there should be.

Apparently I'm not allowed to dislike Jill Stein or be irritated that Green voters helped elect Trump. And here I thought this was a Democratic forum...go figure.

You should.

Again, as a regular on the juries, if never would have hidden a post over "lazy" There had to be some pretty potent other undertones (like obvious but unspoken racism or something) to hide "lazy"

So, if that happened to you, that's a drag. But, it wouldn't have happened because of a jury vote i would make.

It's on point.

It was a bullshit hide. Welcome back!

Neither does the candidate who failed to inspire them to vote. But keep on hating if it makes you feel better.

The Greens actively campaign against Democrats in order to help Republicans win elections. And they do so by lying about things like whether Supreme Court nominees matter.

"I don't care about the Supreme Court" might as well be the Green Party's motto. Neil Gorsuch is the far left's gift to America.

There always have been anarchists and purists. The issue for Democrats is how to get after those who voted in 2008 (70 million) but did not vote in 2016 (at least 5 million, probably more like 10 million who would have voted if excitement was the same as in 2008 but with the larger population)

Beating on a group that really doesn't care and cannot be persuaded does nothing to improve our chances.

And white supremacists are every bit as thick-headed as Greens. That's not going to stop me from criticizing them, any more than it's going to stop me from criticizing Greens.

campaign was almost solely directed against Hillary. They essentially gave trump a free pass.

Their actions to undercut the Democrats in the general election only demonstrate their supposed social and environmental concerns are baloney

"Give me one good reason to vote for Hillary, and don't say the Supreme Court".

Not that there weren't thousands of other reasons too. But even if the Dem candidate was identical to Trump in every respect except for SCOTUS, that's one big reason right there.

Jill Stein telling her followers she was worse than Trump, you had Gary Johnson telling his followers she would "blow up" something because she was a war hawk, then you had Trump and his lies with the help of Julian Assange and Russia.

The fact that she got as many votes as she did with those three clowns lobbing lies 24/7 with the help of cable news is amazing. Goes to show there are those of us out in the country that knew and couldn't be duped that Trump would be better than Hillary.

GOP/Trump
Green/Stein
Libertarians/Johnson
FBI/Comey
Russian/Putin

could vote for Stein.

The Democrat, never attacked the republican. Not people from those groups are silent as Trump and republicans set up to destroy everything Greens and BorB people claim to hold dear.

I thought they would learn their lesson when Trump became president, but it doesn't appear that way.

...everyone will hate the extremism of the Trump Administration, and will be ready to vote for a Socialist progressive in 2020.

right?

of whatever it is you're ingesting? Sounds like a great buzz.

will rise up and seize the means of production. Pain is temporary, the revolution is forever!

I hope you forgot the sarcasm smiley.

Contributor to Democrats and supported Hillary strongly. Maybe he was taking a dig at BorB people and Greens. But in regards to socialist in 2020 winning, I don't see that happening, but a left leaning Democrat like Hickenlooper or Inslee certainly can win by a large margin - the problem is the issues that that person will need to clean up will be daunting and we can only pray that he or she has a solid majority in Congress.

sarcastic. I only want democrats to run for the presidency. No more outsiders. We see where that got us.

Except wide-scale retaking by and for The Commons that which the rich want privatized (healthcare, essential utilities, etc) and the necessary re-regulation of banks, finance and large corporations.

...that you left off the sarcasm smilie because you thought it was obvious.

(bad assumption, btw).

That four years of W wouldn't be so bad (because of course he would only be a four-year president). They also said the Democrats would learn their lesson, see that they were losing elections by being centrist, and move left (of course, Democrats in Congress arrived at the opposite conclusion that the electorate was to their right and they should therefore move right).

What we got was eight years of environmental and economic destruction, two unnecessary wars, hundreds of thousands of people killed, instability in the Middle East, and ISIS.

Those who don't learn from history are bound to repeat the mistakes of the past. It's clear that the American electorate refuses to learn from history.

(I got your sarcasm immediately, by the way. I'm sorry you were so badly attacked for such an innocuous post.)

Stein gave us trump and G-d knows what else

Their political actions have resulted in attacks against the environment, starting with the 2000 election, and their false equivalencies, lies distortions, against the Democrats are a disgrace.

Their actions in the last election demonstrated that their supposed concern for the environment is hogwash. From the Dakota Pipeline, destruction of the EPA, and reports of trump leaving the Paris Climate Change agreement, have set the course which is a disaster for the environment.

Public lands are now free game for oil exploration, and other anti-environmental activities.

the supreme court from Trump wasn't important. Because, you know...emails, Benghazi...under FBI investigation. Reap it for generations you fucking traitors.

And I'm sure the most productive way to spend the next 4 years is to fight over who our nomination in 2016 should be. I mean what could be more relevant?

I supported Sanders in the primaries and Clinton in the General.

Bryant

And I don't really care who our 2020 nominee is, as long as they win.

with reminding people who are supposed to be on our side of what the repercussions of their actions/inactions are.

And those who supported Clinton can have the party all to themselves.

Given a chance I would vote against Clinton again - in the primary. Of course in the general I would have no choice but to support her.

Bryant

for people I didn't agree with even 60% of the time but held my nose and did it anyway because of things like the supreme court. In fact, the ONLY candidate I've ever voted for in the primary that won the nomination (eventually) is Hillary Clinton. I long ago gave up the fantasy of the perfect candidate. That's what living in the real world is all about. YOu call it driving them out, I call it them having a hissy fit and behaving like children. Tomato, tomatoh.

And yet you and DanTex still want to keep this fight going. What are you going to win by keeping this fight going?

Bryant

or damaging one's candidate until they're roadkill leads us to a right winger poised to get a supreme court seat is just reality. THAT's what's happened despite whatever denials you wish to make. The abject stupidity of anyone saying there is no difference between the two parties has lead to THIS.

And I don't think that conversation will go anywhere productive.

Bryant

I know what it's like for my primary candidate to not be the general election nominee, having to suck it up and vote for someone I don't consider the best candidate. But I ALWAYS vote. ALWAYS (as it seems you do). There were supposed progressives STILL damaging our candidate long after the primary war was done. And then, to make matters worse, many of them stayed home and lead us to THIS.

Being stupid when it comes to Democrat versus republican - regardless of people's fantasies, EITHER the Democrat or republican will become the President - people can moan about the two party system all they want, the fact is that is what the majority of voters have chosen. If the Greens want a three party system, let them do grassroots organizing and develop themselves as an alternative that can win.

As long as that person can win. A Clinton follower, a Sanders follower, doesn't matter to me once the primary is settled - I will support our nominee 100% in the general, EVEN if the nominee is not the person I preferred be nominated.

read it. this is about those who pushed propaganda against Hillary and encouraged others not to vote for her because the was no better or worse than trump.

This is about the General Election.

Dangerous#1 Dangerous#2 Dangerous#3 stein on trump & Hillary

Link to tweet

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Link to tweet

and with this pick - who will turn the court rightward for the rest of my life - I'm doubly pissed at those people.

Nominee make 30 years on the bench, but he can serve for as many as 45 years. In addition, Trump can make THREE more appointments, if not more. The BorB people and Greens fucked us all for generations.

In addition to losing their health care, coal miners will also be losing their clean drinking water thanks to the incompetent by changes related to coal ash pollution. Who needs clean drinking water, though, right?

Greatful to all Sanders and Green supporters who voted for Clinton.

"Doesn't matter what happens, l'll always have me."

And I hope the Greens and BoBs are proud of the Supreme Court nominee they have given us. I'm sure he will support all the policies that they claim to care about. I mean, he must, right? They fought so hard for him, after all.

He could stack the Courts with extreme extremists that will eliminate women's rights, LGBTQ rights, environmental regulations, consumer rights. The list of horribleness goes on and on. The issue isn't the primary or even general, the issue is that people that claim to value certain things were so pure that they would not vote for a person that shared at least 80% of their views and instead helped into office a person who share none of their views.

who cost Hillary the election, not TheMediaComeyRussiaVoterSuppressionRacistsSexistsBigotsetc.etc.etc.. Got it.

I have to ask the same question Hillary did: why wasn't she 50 points ahead? Popular candidates are difficult to steal elections from (see Obama). Ask yourself why.

Talking about the country being pulled back to 1950 level culture, in a modern world. Nothing that we value will escape the slaughterhouse.

Trumpbannon is a threat, and people fked around with their vote.

glad to see the post was unlocked.



Sid

Could you make that pic smaller? Her face literally makes me nauseous.

Republicans hold an enormous advantage now. Trump nominated a person that could be on the bench for 45 years, three of the justices that uphold Roe v Wade and environmental law are in their eighties and may leave within four years, AND the election calendar has us defending an enormous number of seats in the Senate in 2018. Our only hope is republicans and Trump screw up so badly that 2018 see us beat the odds, otherwise, we are in for two brutal generations.

like CA, who cast their protest vote for Stein and other hopeless candidates, rather than Hillary. How many of them told me "I can safely vote my conscience, because CA will go for Hillary in a landslide?"

They're not the worst because they cast that anti-Hillary vote. No, they're the worst because they turned out to be the most-vocal critics of Hillary. And while their vote in a safe state may not have helped Trump get elected, their constant Hillary bashing on the internet and social media certainly did pull votes away from Hillary in states where it made a big difference. They simply piled on the crap the Rs had been throwing at Hillary for the last 30 years, and in our age of instant communications, that piling on did make a difference.

God, I loathe these people.

Just think that your self-righteousness can enable a continuation in 2018, so get out there and vote against DEMOCRATS again!!!

Yes I am bitter about the phony protest voters that have brought on our current dictatorship.

I hope that the great feeling of turning your back on the Democratic party will help you through these dark days that you have created.

40 years. We can take back the Presidency and Congress, but face a packed rightwing Court system.

The bulk is owned by the billionaire donor class, the MSM, the tens of millions of Trump voters and the tens of millions of non-voters. With a bit left over for us Dems who did less than we were able.

do you think is reading this? I'm going to suggest that the percentage of people that are looking at this who voted for Secretary Clinton in the General Election is upward of 90. The majority of the remaining readers are probably thinking that your liberal tears are delicious. Even if BoBs and Greens are reading do you think you are persuading them to behave as you wish?
Do you think you are going to rid US elections of third parties? Are you looking to create a kinder gentler Democratic primary? I don't think third parties are going away and I think there could be bruising primaries in the Democratic party's future. Are you going to try to get a better result than this cycle by hectoring harder? I suspect it isn't going to be a very effective strategy.

I'm expressing my opinion, and also reminding Dems of how destructive the far left in this country is, and what an ally of the GOP they have been. This is now the third right-wing Supreme Court justice that the far left has brought us. Imagine, without people like Nader and Stein, liberals could have a 7-2 majority.

to either be rid of third party candidates, like Ralph Nader or Dr. Stein, or to overcome the effect they have on elections. Seems a lot like pissing into the wind. I don't subscribe to the notion that third party candidates were the key to losing either the 2000 election or 2016's. That said, I do think they are a factor and the Democratic party should be taking action to mitigate against their presence. I have never read anything from you that does anything to do that you just complain.

I think it's important for Dems and progressives to push back against far left propaganda, to not forget that they are allies of the GOP, and to hold them accountable when they throw elections to Republicans. I thought the lessons of 2000 were pretty clear, but it looks like they were forgotten over time, and also there is the younger generation that were still kids during 2000.

But I'm not part of the Democratic leadership, so I'm not working on any master plan. I'll do my part, when I talk to people, especially young and naive people, who are toying with the Green Party, I explain to them what the Greens are really about.

First they brought us W. Now they bring us Trump. And in both cases, they constantly insist that the Supreme Court doesn't really matter that much, it's more important to "vote your conscience", because apparently to Greens "conscience" equates to helping Republicans get elected.

I'm not the one who started the fight with the far left. I didn't force Nader to say that it would be better if W won. I didn't force Stein to say that Hillary was more dangerous than Trump.

Where would we be without the far left? We wouldn't have had the Iraq War, or the financial collapse, or the Bush Tax cuts, or any of that. I'm all for moving the Dems left, but the Green Party isn't doing that.

Yes, I think money in politics is a huge problem. But I have to wonder if the Greens think that, since they insist that it doesn't matter which party appoints Supreme Court justices. Do you think it ever occurred to Jill Stein that the only way to overturn Citizens United is by Supreme Court appointments?

Greens, BoBs, and anyone else who claims to be progressive but advocated against voting for Hillary.

I support people who want to move the Dems left without sabotaging them. I don't like Joe Lieberman at all, and there are plenty of other Democrats who are far to my right. Most of them, in fact. On the other hand, I'd much rather have a Joe Manchin than a Republican, and in some states a conservative Dem is the best we can do.

But the Greens and BoBs are a whole different category. You say they have very little power, but that's only partially true. They have no power to accomplish any of the things that they talk about. In terms of their stated progressive goals, they are totally ineffective.

But they do have the power to nudge close elections to the GOP. In fact, that's the only power they have. And they use that power. That Nader delivered W is indisputable. Sure the court gave him an assist (O'Conner was appointed by Reagan, by the way, not a Dem), but without Nader Florida isn't even close. 2016 is not as open-and-shut because it wasn't as close in the key states, and because Stein didn't get as many votes. Still, the Green Party, as well as people who supported Stein in the lefty media and constantly attacked Hillary, the delegates booing at the convention, etc. certainly pushed things towards Trump and it was close enough that every little push mattered.

And, of course, I must point out that anyone who has participated in DU over the last 8 years has seen more than their share of far-left stupidity from posters who are now no longer here. The Obama bashing reached a fever pitch years ago. And, sure, DU isn't representative of the real world, but this isn't the only place online that was overrun with anti-Dem leftists. There were a substantial number of actual convention delegates booing and protesting. And look, I can respect people passionate about the primary, but once it is over, I cannot respect anyone who doesn't understand the consequences of a GOP presidency.

And by the way, if Bernie or Warren had been our nominee, and any centrist Dems decided to advocate for a write-in or third party vote (or advocate voting for Trump, as some far leftists did), I would come down on them just as hard. I was disgusted when Zell Miller supported Bush in '04 and when Lieberman supported McCain in '08.

The thing is, I'm pretty sure that if I made a post after '04 attacking Zell Miller and his fans for helping W get re-elected, nobody would be complaining about it. So I don't see why attacking Stein and her fans should be any more controversial.

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

"I'm not ready to play nice, I'm not ready to back down. I'm still mad as hell....."

Greens screwed the country again. But, they'll never see it.

"Principles". Do principles matter when you trap yourself and family in a locked room while the house is burning down?

Purity is the enemy of pragmatism.

Because no candidate is pure. Rather, people ignore the negative aspects of the candidate they prefer. They construct a narrative in which one is perfect and the other evil.

I'm sure there is a psychological theory out there that explains why we are drawn to them.

But, I agree, reject the purity trope.

They just aren't being honest about what those principles are. Their actions, however, demonstrate them clearly.

decided to vote third party in the general. And if some centrist like Bloomberg had mounted a run and siphoned off enough votes from Bernie to toss the election to Trump, I would be writing the same OP about him and his supporters.

This isn't about the primary, it's about the general election. About people so blinded by ideology or personal animosity or whatever that they refused to see the differences between Hillary and Trump.

and people who voted for Republicans (27% of the population).

I can understand the bitterness, but honestly how do you think berating the 1.7% of the population that voted Green is going to progress anything?

People are entitled to voted for whatever party they think will best represent them. You're not going to change their mind by blaming them for things that Republicans do. You're just increasing the divisions on the left.

And for the record, I voted for Hillary but a huge part of why I wasn't very enthusiastic about it was all of her supporters insisting that I had no choice.

The two party system is a huge part of what is wrong with American politics. Nearly every other modern democracy uses mixed member proportional or some other form of multi-party system. When we set up democracies in other countries, we don't use our own model, we used mixed member proportional or the Westminster system.

What we're doing now isn't sustainable. The planet isn't going to last for 20 more years of gridlock in Congress because the two political parties are more interested in winning elections than actually governing.

And new parties are part of the way to break that gridlock. We should be looking to work together with them to form coalitions, not knocking people over the head and saying "don't believe what you believe or I'll blame you for all the shit that happens for the next four years, vote for my candidate because they aren't as bad as the other guy."

Not exactly an inspiring message. Why not take some ownership of the fact that it turns people off and, when it did, the Democratic party didn't exactly trip over itself to build bridges?

Problem is, changing to proportional representation requires a constitutional amendment, and that's not going to happen. And as long as we have a winner-take-all system, then third parties cannot be anything except spoilers.

If Stein and the Greens decided to devote their efforts to bringing about a proportional representation system, I'd be all behind them. I don't think it would be any more successful than their efforts to get elected have been. But at least then they wouldn't be actively aiding the GOP by siphoning off Democratic votes, which is what they are doing now.

The Greens have won a total of zero house seats, zero senate seats, and zero electoral votes in their history. They aren't breaking any gridlock. All of their efforts in house, senate, and presidential races have accomplished nothing but help elect Republicans.

from the 2-5% of Greens/Diehard Progressives - 25-30% who vote for Dems - 45-50% who don't vote - 25-30% who vote for Repubs - 2-5% that vote for Independants/Liberatarians.

Why spend energy trying to beat on the 2-5% of Greens/Progressives for an election that is already over instead of going after the 45-50% who don't vote for 2018?

The reason people vote Green is because they think the Democratic party takes their vote for granted and feels entitled to it despite no longer even paying lip service to a progressive agenda. How is that going to change by acting like they are somehow betraying the country because they voted their conscience?

How is this OP going to actually solve anything, other than letting you feel a bit more superior to all those idiots who didn't fall into line behind you? That's not leadership and it's a huge part of why people are turned off by the DNC's approach.

I'm not meaning to single you out. I'm just fed up with the circular firing squad ever since the election.

We can look forward and move forward together, which involves in the first instance actually listening to and respecting each other, or we can shout "I told you so" at each other all the way to another round of losses in 2018.