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NNN0LHI

(67,190 posts)
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 08:24 AM Jun 2012

And the reason is simply because we don't make (manufacture) things (goods in the U.S.) anymore.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57461537/economists-say-stockton-calif-wont-be-last-u.s-city-to-go-bankrupt/

June 27, 2012 7:54 AM

Economists say Stockton, Calif. won't be last U.S. city to go bankrupt

(CBS News) STOCKTON, Calif. - Stockton, Calif. could become the largest American city ever to file for bankruptcy on Wednesday.

And economists warn other large U.S. cities could be next. snip

Peter Navarro, a professor of economics at the University of California - Irvine, says there is, "a long queue out there of cities like Stockton that are going to be doing the same thing."

Navarro points to cities such as Vallejo, Calif. and Central Falls, Rhode Island, which also went bankrupt, largely because of unfunded pensions. Jefferson County, Ala. filed for Chapter 9 protection, sinking in $3 billion dollars worth of debt.

"This is not a story about Stockton," Navarro stressed. "It's a story about the failure of our national economy. And the reason is simply because we don't make (manufacture) things (goods in the U.S.) anymore."

----------------------------------------

Coming to a city near you.
27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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And the reason is simply because we don't make (manufacture) things (goods in the U.S.) anymore. (Original Post) NNN0LHI Jun 2012 OP
That's part of the reason el_bryanto Jun 2012 #1
Correct, and I'm Waiting Iggy Jun 2012 #2
Yes that's exactly what they are saying el_bryanto Jun 2012 #10
" frivolous things like community centers, parks, libraries " Wounded Bear Jun 2012 #14
I don't consider them frivolous either; but many conservatives do. n/t el_bryanto Jun 2012 #17
Fortunately... as Clownservatives Iggy Jun 2012 #27
And to make the circle perfect... JHB Jun 2012 #12
Depends on how you look at manufacturing hack89 Jun 2012 #3
The Bush administration said building a Big Mac is a manufacturing job in 2004 NNN0LHI Jun 2012 #5
The loss of manufacturing jobs is due to the loss of low tech manufacturing hack89 Jun 2012 #6
Let's just get one thing straight laundry_queen Jun 2012 #20
I challenge you to find a single study or marketing survey that supports that notion. hack89 Jun 2012 #21
Business knows how to manipulate peoples' actions through advertising byeya Jun 2012 #22
Can't question logic like that. It's literally impossible. nt hack89 Jun 2012 #24
Most people do want low cost goods 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #26
...which did bugger all to change UN industry codes. dmallind Jun 2012 #9
Making more stuff for export w/fewer people = profits for 1%= immiseration of the rest. leveymg Jun 2012 #13
High end capital goods manufacturing hack89 Jun 2012 #18
I should have read your post first 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #16
Each one of these stories needs to link to this piece: Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #4
Also link to this one by Taibbi antigop Jun 2012 #7
Also this one ---state taxes going to corporations antigop Jun 2012 #8
I remember back when I was working for General Motors. Ganja Ninja Jun 2012 #11
The US is the leading manufacturing nation in the world 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #15
2 cities went bankrupt due to unfunded pensions......... nc4bo Jun 2012 #19
The 1% leeches have been siphoning money from our governments for decades now. Initech Jun 2012 #23
And corporate America can't see past next quarter's earnings reports. Bake Jun 2012 #25

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
1. That's part of the reason
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 08:28 AM
Jun 2012

Another part is that in the years when credit was easy and you could borrow all the money you wanted, Cities, Counties, Local Government Entities, States, and the Federal Government all borrowed lots and lots. Now that the money has dried up a bit, the Federal Government is shifting as many duties and burdens to the states, and the states are shifting as many duties and burdens down to the local governments (cities, counties and so on). The Local Governments will try to shift these burdens to their citizens in the form of reduced services and increased fees/fines, but there's only so much they can do (without getting voted out). So they will have tough times.

Bryant

 

Iggy

(1,418 posts)
2. Correct, and I'm Waiting
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 08:53 AM
Jun 2012

given clownservatives constantly attempt to ignore the poor by stating "well, they choose to be poor",
I'm waiting for them to cast their all-knowing lens on these bankrupt cities.

are they now going to say, "well, they chose to be financially stupid and make wrong assumptions"?

doubtful.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
10. Yes that's exactly what they are saying
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 10:05 AM
Jun 2012

The governments of those communities chose to be fiscally irresponsible and make promises to their communties they couldn't keep. Spending money on frivolous things like community centers, parks, libraries has created undue hardships on many communties. You can't just borrow and spend forever.

They will ignore, of course, how much of the burden is state wide because they assume the voters will ignore it as well.

Bryant

Wounded Bear

(58,698 posts)
14. " frivolous things like community centers, parks, libraries "
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 11:11 AM
Jun 2012

There are many around here that don't consider those things frivolous.

 

Iggy

(1,418 posts)
27. Fortunately... as Clownservatives
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:23 PM
Jun 2012

continue to adopt Teh Crazy and move farther to the extreme right/bogus land.. they are losing
credibility and voters.

they are hilariously off track.

JHB

(37,161 posts)
12. And to make the circle perfect...
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 10:12 AM
Jun 2012

...people angry about rising state and local taxes hear the anti-tax gong rung by FOX/teabaggers/billionaire-funded astroturf orgs and are encouraged to point their anger at Obama and "tax and spend" Democrats in Congress -- even though their Federal taxes nearly always went down.

All to support policies guaranteed (and shown by multiple experience) to produce more of the same.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
3. Depends on how you look at manufacturing
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 09:14 AM
Jun 2012

Manufacturing as a part of our GDP is growing but American manufacturing is concentrated in high end capital goods and not consumer goods so it is not obvious to the average American. The big negative is that US factories are now highly automated and therefore there has been a big loss in jobs.

1. Still the champion.

Inspired by a column in Sunday's Boston Globe, Mark Perry put together this graph as a testament to America's global manufacturing strength. (It includes mining and utilities because it draws from a UN database that bundles together data for manufacturing, mining and utilities).

2. A shrinking footprint

Even though U.S. manufacturing has grown in absolute terms, other sectors of the economy have grown much faster. As a result, manufacturing represents a much smaller share of our economy than it did a few generations ago. This graph from Global Macro Monitor compares manufacturing's share of U.S. GDP to the share held by finance, insurance and real estate.

3. Millions of lost jobs

Manufacturing jobs are disappearing, even though the manufacturing sector is making more money. In other words, we have lots of really high-tech factories churning out fancy, complex stuff. But those factories just don't need that many employees. More than five million manufacturing jobs disappeared in the 10 years through December of last year — and most were already gone by the time the financial crisis hit.



http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/02/07/133561265/3-ways-of-looking-at-manufacturing-in-america

NNN0LHI

(67,190 posts)
5. The Bush administration said building a Big Mac is a manufacturing job in 2004
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 09:25 AM
Jun 2012
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2004-02-21/news/18260239_1_fast-food-jobs-manufacturing-job-democrats-accused-president-bush

BY CORKY SIEMASZKO DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Saturday, February 21, 2004

A White House wonk says building a Big Mac is a manufacturing job.

Fast-food jobs should not be considered service sector work because it actually is "combining inputs to manufacture a product" - and should be reclassified as manufacturing work, Gregory Mankiw wrote in the Bush administration's annual economic report.

Democrats accused President Bush's chief economist of trying to mask the fact that 2.2 million high-wage jobs have been lost since Bush took office.

"Unable to stop the hemorrhaging of American manufacturing jobs, the Bush administration is offering up some world-class job creation sleight of hand: Change the definition of what constitutes a manufacturing job," griped Rep. George Miller (D-Calif.).

-----------------------------------------

So there you go.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
6. The loss of manufacturing jobs is due to the loss of low tech manufacturing
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 09:33 AM
Jun 2012

labor intensive manufacturing will never return to America as long as American's want low cost consumer goods.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
20. Let's just get one thing straight
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:25 PM
Jun 2012

most people don't WANT low cost goods. I don't know one person who would rather have a $6 hand mixer that lasts 6 months vs a $100 mixer that lasts 30 years. Or a $5 shovel that falls apart with the first snowfall vs a $30 shovel that lasts 20 winters. People know in the long run this doesn't benefit them. The problem is with the lack of wage increases, people NEED to buy low cost items in order to maintain their standard of living. It's not easy to see your standard of living slip every year. Most people will do what is necessary to try to maintain that standard of living, including buying cheap China made crap, in the face of slipping wages.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
21. I challenge you to find a single study or marketing survey that supports that notion.
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:35 PM
Jun 2012

business understands exactly what motivates consumers to buy what they buy. It is not because they want to buy more expensive things.

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
22. Business knows how to manipulate peoples' actions through advertising
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:42 PM
Jun 2012

and by freezing out information that doesn't support their profiit margins.

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
26. Most people do want low cost goods
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 02:43 PM
Jun 2012

hence Walmarts success.

People know in the long run this doesn't benefit them.


Some people do. Some don't. Long term planning has never been our strong suit. We're a live in the moment kind of species.

Also if you absolutely must have a shovel today but only have 5 bucks in your pocket what are you going to do? You might realize it's a bad investment in the long term but you have a hole that needs digging now and you can't afford a better one.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
13. Making more stuff for export w/fewer people = profits for 1%= immiseration of the rest.
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 10:59 AM
Jun 2012

It finally appears that Marx has been proven right about how "advanced capitalism" would turn out.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
18. High end capital goods manufacturing
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 11:55 AM
Jun 2012

is not like making widgets like TVs and computers. You make a lot fewer of them but each one is highly profitable. You also need a smaller but much more highly educated and skilled workforce.

The underlying issue is that the economy has fundamentally changed but the way we educate and train workers has not.

antigop

(12,778 posts)
8. Also this one ---state taxes going to corporations
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 09:41 AM
Jun 2012
http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/sites/default/files/docs/pdf/taxestotheboss_prrel.pdf
2012—Nearly $700 million a year in state income taxes withheld from worker paychecks in 16 states is being used to provide lavish subsidies to corporations rather than paying for vital public services. These diversions have gone to more than 2,700 companies, including major firms such as Sears, Goldman Sachs and General Electric. Few if any of the affected workers are aware, because no state requires they be informed on their pay stubs.

Ganja Ninja

(15,953 posts)
11. I remember back when I was working for General Motors.
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 10:07 AM
Jun 2012

Some people use to ask "Don't you think autoworkers are overpaid?" Everyone was jealous.

See what happens when you get rid of those well paying jobs? People who use to have money to retire to the south don't now. If they can't sell the homes they lived in up north, they can't buy new homes down south. So much for the Florida economy.

The moral is if you want to buy goods from people who work under sweatshop conditions then you'll end up living like someone that works in a sweatshop.

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
15. The US is the leading manufacturing nation in the world
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 11:16 AM
Jun 2012

it's just that A) we don't make all those things you see commonly (so you see the "made in" sticker on a new pair of shoes, but not on the train that brought them to your town) and B) it is becoming extremely efficient so very few people are employed in that area.

nc4bo

(17,651 posts)
19. 2 cities went bankrupt due to unfunded pensions.........
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:02 PM
Jun 2012

I know this must play a part but not necessarily a huge portion.

I'm referring to the state of the USPS, which has a pre-funded (hope I said that right) pension system and it's because of that the USPS is in danger of being eliminated and a privatized system put into place. The 1%ers and GOP have been licking their chops at our postal system for several years now and won't stop until it is gone and replaced. They'd more than likely repeat the same mantra if pensions were paid in advance in city budgets too.

The majority of the entire problem stems from the simple fact we don't make much here anymore thanks to the 1%ers. Even the equipment used to promote our warmongering agenda isn't the big manufacturing machine it was in the past when larges portions of the population worked to build military equipment.

In the new age of global economy, I don't see us returning to a manufacturing mecca ever again.

So what do we do?

Initech

(100,100 posts)
23. The 1% leeches have been siphoning money from our governments for decades now.
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:43 PM
Jun 2012

And if we don't stop, grow a pair - and start taxing the ever loving shit out of these pieces of crap - expect this to escalate further. Stockton won't be the first but they won't be the last. Hey - here's another source of tax revenue - churches! It's way past time to end the free ride there! Let's bring in revenue instead of cutting spending - that's how you balance the budget Republicans.

Bake

(21,977 posts)
25. And corporate America can't see past next quarter's earnings reports.
Wed Jun 27, 2012, 01:32 PM
Jun 2012

They're killing the economy, because in the long run, who's going to buy their stuff when nobody has decent jobs anymore? China? I doubt it.

Earnings myopia, if you ask me.

Bake

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