.

I was surprised he didn't know the advantages and disadvantages of a strong dollar. For a businessperson that is astounding.

at that time, conceivably he might test high on paper. Let's not forget he had private schooling.

But we all know his personality disorder, including its crippling effect on his attention span, makes him astonishingly ignorant and effectively very stupid in most situations he NOW finds himself in. Plus, its disastrous effect on interpretation of what knowledge does briefly get through! Personality disorders do affect cognition. He is only a fraction of a man.

And IQ tests are only very incomplete evaluations of a person's abilities.

His aptitude for certain mental skills might indeed be high (verbal cognition would not be one of them), but I doubt seriously that it's as high as he or others claim, or that the skills he might have would be in the logical/abstract realm. It certainly doesn't show in his public persona.

That (1) must be. type-o.

and thats giving him some

I know he has lots of business failures but could one have as many business successes with such a low I Q ? 95 is borderline average.

Even Forbes magazine did an analysis that showed if he had merely invested the money given him by his daddy, his net worth would be 20 to 25% higher than he claims. His "successes" resulted in a lower return on assets than if he had done nothing.

build things, not using much of his own money
Architects design the building and contractors erect it.

At least he doesn't read the leases he signs - as he told the court in this video:

He just never admitted it and got remedial attention to help fix the problem because he was the smartest guy in the class. Sad.

My husband is 65 and it wasn't until sometime in the 1980s that he understood that he had dyslexia. He still loves to read and does not have the difficulty that Trump displays. In my husband's case, his dyslexia makes him an excellent proof reader since he does know his spelling - he just has to carefully parse every letter in every word to make sure he knows what he is reading.

We figured this out when he was proof reading some of my stuff. I am a scanning reader and can read a page in less time it takes him to read a sentence. But I cannot make myself slow down to study every word much less every letter. The two of us make one decent writer, lol.

I just understand how Trump managed to get so far in business without reading his contracts. I have two ideas - first he has to have attorneys that he trusts to handle that part of his business for him. Secondly, most of his "empire" was built as a crazy Ponzi scheme building the next layer upon the debts of the the earlier ones. I suspect his entire house of cards is a facade propped up with obligations that he cannot make public - and that a disinterested trustee would have to dismantle if it had been put into a blink trust.

"Can't Read, Can't Write, Can't Talk Too Good Either," written by a woman journalist about her son. It was a huge eye-opener for both of us. I went thru college with him, and there was just no word for his lifelong problem until that time.

Nelson Rockefeller was also dyslexic -- he memorized all his speeches instead of reading them off a teleprompter. A number of public figures who have done well in their fields have been. They just mostly were born at an advantageous socioeconomic level so they had support at key times in life, including landing early jobs that came with secretarial support.

Students that had problems reading were considered stupid. My husband was lucky - he had supportive parents who KNEW he wasn't stupid. He has very good retention and comprehension skills. Me - I can scan through something and get the big picture quickly. He will take five to ten times longer to read the same material and remember the picky little details that I often miss.

A lot of students who were dyslexic before it was recognized learned to fake it. They would con others into taking notes and telling them the important parts of the class and learn other ways to disguise their limitations. I have wondered if a lot of con artists get started that way - they learn to fool people just to survive and then realize they can make more profit by fooling them in bigger and better ways.

And that gets us back to Trump - I seriously think he is a high level confidence man. Maybe he got his start in his youth and built on what he learned from his father and his own experiences but it is clear he is NOT an honest businessman or an honorable person.

His malapropisms were always equated with a lack of intelligence by the left, but it is a classic symptom of dyslexia, not a lack of intelligence. There were claims that he didn't/couldn't read too.

With Trump, his most obvious symptoms are related to OCD and maybe ADHD. He tics a bit when under stress (all that sniffing), has difficulty regulating emotions, impulsiveness and compulsive attention seeking behavior. His thoughts seem to get caught in a 'groove' that he can't escape from. Look at how he ruminates over any perceived slight and then tweets repetitively, even when it is clearly in his best interest to shut up. And of course the hand washing and weird food obsessions.

All of that is typical OCD/anxiety behaviors. The intrusive thoughts can really take a toll on cognitive abilities. It is worrying in a president.

a reader who goes everywhere with him, I'm told.

Do you mean Connecticut governor?

from daddy he'd be fixing flats and washing cars today

When one digs down deep into tRump one can see a lot of failures.

When I look at his business history, he's always had people around him who made the decisions, recommendations, who do the research, who make the suggestions, who run the meetings, run the businesses, do the taxes, etc. He's had money and contacts all his life. He alone has done nothing. He's had an army of people his whole life and certainly his entire business career. I'd be very interested to see what he could actually accomplish on his own, without advisers or minions.

But that's just a reply to your comment about his business acumen.

In terms of IQ...I'd peg him around 100-ish. Maybe 110-ish on the high side.

Creating and managing any complex organization requires a modicum of intelligence. A person with an I Q of say, 75, isn't going to be creating or managing any organizations...

The suggestion Drumpf has an I Q of 154 is freaking risible. The fact that he doesn't does not suggest he's a dullard.

is a perfect descriptor when I consider his intelligence. Which is why I was generous and said 110-ish. And maybe I should clarify and say IQ, not necessarily intelligence. I think the term intelligence is very broad and can include a number of factors.

I do have to wonder though how hands-on or how much input he's actually ever had in his businesses. What is his management level? It seems as if he's more the big idea man and others are the ones who make things happen, whose jobs it is to implement his big ideas. I'm not suggesting he's a simpleton, just that I personally don't equate the type of businessman I've seen him to be, with a high IQ. It doesn't take much to be a successful money or idea man if you have the right people under you. When I think of intelligent businessmen, I think of Bloomberg, Gates, Branson, Cuban, Jobs, just off the top of my head. These are people who can describe their businesses in detail. Who can describe the ins and outs of their organizations. Who have the ability to understand and convey ideas and messages on an intelligent level. I just don't see that with the Con.

The verbiage he uses that he gets the most grief for now..."huge, biggest, best, beautiful..." is verbiage he's used for decades when describing things. He did seem to have a slightly more extensive vocabulary years ago, but he's never been a what I would consider to be an intelligent speaker.

later part he didn't really do much himself. Mostly giving orders to other people. I do know in the beginning, his daddy bailed him out of several failures.

However, I'm not so sure a high IQ score makes for a good or bad President. I think common sense, experiences, and willing to listen to your experts in their field are much more important than IQ. unfortunately, the Con doesn't believe in listening to anyone else, has no experience in things associated with his current job, and soesn't appear to have any common sense!

seem to be failing fast.

My wife swears he's not cunning enough to be the Anti-Christ though

I don't fully know - I know that I've known a lot of high IQ people over the year who seemed to lack good judgement. I don't want to diminish those who study intelligence, but I'm just not sure on what that exactly measures.

Bryant

They mostly measure your test-taking ability.

I estimate him to be between 90 and 95. I also think he has an undiagnosed reading/writing learning disability.

90's to 100's would be my guess as well. This guy is no MENSA member

That's a bad combo!

That was pretty easy to do back in the day when we had paper licenses without photos as ID.

I'm not saying with any certainty that Bush recruited a smarter student to take the SATs for him, but it was certainly possible then. I peg him as cunning rather than intelligent, the same as Trump.

he was sworn in as President (of sorts)?

I think Poppy bought all his degrees, including the entrance tests.

? anyone know? Back then I think 600+ was a high score for either math or English and 800 was perfect.

...is correct.

You can give a 6 year old an age appropriate test and get similar results when they are 60.

have a considerable effect on IQ over time? I'm genuinely curious.

High childhood IQ correlates to high adult drug use, possibly as a coping mechanism as people with high IQ are often looked down upon by their peers, causing emotional distress. Ever heard the derogatory term brainiac? Then those people die from drug use, which brings their IQ way down.

Last edited Fri Feb 10, 2017, 12:21 PM - Edit history (1)

There is no way he is even 120. His main skills seem to be lying and bullying, which do not require very much intelligence. And yes I do think he has a learning disability, which may have been diagnosed when he was young, but probably suppressed by his rich parents.

edit for typo

Parents and teachers probably just swept his problems under the rug, and passed him on from one grade to the next. Of course it catches up to one eventually.

A child without money might have been held back a year, but his parents wouldn't have stood for that.

And that student would have been tracked into vocational education. He would NOT have been considered "college material." But, of course, Buffoon's parents would never have tolerated that.

to tolerate the brat, give him passable grades, and try to survive his presence. Someone at DU posted something awhile back that Trump was labeled "uneducable" on a school transfer form, but of course he still was accepted by the school.

The poster knew someone who had worked at the school and shared the info with him/her. Don't know if it is true, but it sure fits his profile as a very difficult student.

And he was not accepted by the school - the University of Pennsylvania.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028420593

One school couldn't be bought.

up at Wharton which is a part of the University of Pennsylvania. It appears he was refused when he first applied, if the post correct.

The story's appeared here several times that the admissions officer he saw before transferring was a good friend of his brother Fred.

It's pretty hard to believe he got in on his merits.

what I've read.

Yeah, unlikely that he got in on his merits. There is no indication that he ever was a good student.

That was before his wealthy family connections played a role in getting him in. He was also so incorrigible as a teen his family sent him to military school.

and he seems to be rather proud of it.

in the room. It's so important to him to believe he has that dominance.
Seriously, though, early conduct disorder is part of the checklist for psychopathy and the rest of his personal history fills out the rest. He clearly is narcissistic, but it is often comorbid with psychopathy.

I think we all have, but without the money, they tend to disappear into obscurity or end up in jail. You can find a Trump sitting at almost any neighborhood bar in the country, bragging and expounding on subjects they know nothing about. They are the ones most people try to move away from if they can.

There is no getting away from Trump, though. I keep hoping to wake up and find he is arrested or taken away in a straight jacket...or something I can't say (but would not be in the least grief stricken about) that rhymes with dread.
We have to survive him and turn things around here at home and with our relations and image abroad.

I keep thinking of all the things that might happen that could save us. Health wise, he IS a walking time bomb. Between bad diet, excess weight, anger issues, and very little sleep, I don't see how he could last for four whole years physically or mentally. He really should just resign and go play lots of golf! Oh well, he probably can't do that, as he owes his soul to Russian bankers.

He will probably end up getting impeached, but the damage he will do before that could be devastating.

Goddess help us, we have an uneducable president

incapable or unwilling to learn anything new. He once said he had not changed since he was a young child and it appears that is true.

I agree with your assessment. He is smart enough to con people, but has no real knowledge or experience of the world except how to build towers and a brand. And he had 6 bankruptcies and was bailed out by Russian crime bosses during the 7th. So the Great Businessman is really a failed loser in business. I would not want to be in one of his towers in a high wind.

No higher than 105, and that's VERY generous. I truly believe he's functionally illiterate, too, for a person at his supposed level of "success" and achievement. I'd peg his reading comprehension at about 6th grade. Wouldn't be surprised if he's dyslexic.

me, which would have the same effect on knowledge if he hasn't the patience to listen or read in any level of detail.

2E, where IQ and learning disability cancel each other out. I know several kids with it.

him w/out psychoeducational evaluations up the wahoo.

insanity. If that is the case maybe he did have an IQ of 154 but he has crossed the line into insanity.

Last edited Fri Feb 10, 2017, 05:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Watch some videos of Edmund Kemper, the co-ed killer. The man oozes intellect, and yet he's a vile psycho murderer.

Trump is also a psychopath, but he's a dullard in comparison.

regardless of intellect. He may not have got away with it as long as he did, he was bright enough to cover his tracks well and in fact he was never "caught". He turned himself in.

Just like in college.

He has bought his way through every situation in his life. No doubt paid numerous PR people to say he has a high IQ. But, he can't read. He can barely speak. He has the attention span of goldfish strung out on meth.

He fakes EVERYTHING. He lies about EVERYTHING. He is a failure at EVERYTHING.

He is a fucking bumbling fool who only made it into office because Putin has an IQ of 154 or higher.

comes out of his head.

He is a sociopath - devoid of empathy. They tend to be somewhat intelligent but need an emotion to complete the whole.

Last edited Fri Feb 10, 2017, 05:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Intelligence Commotion
A chart purportedly showing that Donald Trump has an IQ of 156 is based on incomplete and outright inaccurate information.

Origin: A chart purportedly ranking the intelligence quotients of former presidents of the United States made the rounds on social media in December 2016, along with the claim that the President-elect would rank among the smartest, boasting an IQ of 156:



...

This chart is based on a real study; however, the claim that Donald Trump has an IQ of 156 is not.

...

This article is chock-full of logical missteps and factual inaccuracies. Trump's official school transcripts are not available, so it is impossible to know his actual scholastic aptitude scores. While the article's author used Wharton's general admission requirements to estimate Trump's IQ, the math still doesn't quite add up.

According to PrepScholar.com, Wharton's SAT requirements are currently set at 1500. This roughly translates to an IQ score between 145 and 149, not 156. Regardless, Wharton's admission requirements are irrelevant, since Trump did not enter Wharton as a freshman. He transferred there his junior year, and Wharton does not list SAT scores among its requirements for transfer students.

Gwenda Blair claimed in her 2001 biography about Donald Trump and his family that the President-elect was admitted to Wharton thanks to a friendly admissions officer ...

http://www.snopes.com/donald-trumps-intelligence-quotient/

Then my cat is a Nobel prize winning quantum physicist.

it further invalidates the whole concept of intelligent life on Earth.

Thanks for the reply, BTW. Given the way folks below on this thread are seemingly accepting that Trump's ever had his IQ tested, let alone been allocated such a high quotient, despite the Snopes article, I was starting to think that almost the whole of DU has me on ignore!

HE NEEDS TO RELEASE HIS TRANSCRIPTS!1!ELEVENTY!11!

Yeah, I know, different types of intelligence, etc. But IQ still involves spatial relations, logical reasoning, the ability to form analogies and such, and he has never demonstrated any of the capacities whatsoever. He has people do EVERYTHING for him. I doubt he could find his own ass with a flashlight and an anatomical chart.

I'd be amazed if he's ever had it formally tested.

That chart above (which I'm sure is the basis for his claim) is based on academic achievements etc., and is historical guesswork (and, as Snopes points out, is methodologically flawed anyway).

Not that any of this really matters, of course, but I'm gobsmacked to see so many of my fellow DUers even entertaining the notion, and thus have to try to explain it away!

Eom.

it is a completely or almost completely subjective measurement. I don't run around bragging about it.

I've met many people who I know are smarter than me (or as smart as me).

For example, I was a "big deal" playing chess in high school. I was my state's junior chess champion and had a decent USCF rating. Then I moved to the national stage and played some Russian grand masters... ha! Had my ass handed to me.

There is no way, from watching Trump make many mistakes like confusing Quds force with Kurds in an interview, that he is anywhere close to me or people that I've met at places that I've worked like NASA.

I am only 139, but I appear higher because of my personality and drive to succeed.

Go to a Mensa gathering and tell me that IQ has much to do with measurable "success" in life.

not many friends... mostly because I have a hard time putting up with people slower than me.

I totally get that financial success has only a limited relationship to IQ. Because of my IQ and my desire to invent solutions (or solve puzzles) I have value to the organizations that hire me. But I will never be the CEO, I don't have the interpersonal skills mixed with the right amount of sociopathy.

I took the Mensa test (thinking I wanted to be around people as "smart" as myself). Passed it no problem... went to one gathering and never went back. The people I met were pretentious and arrogant. Could have been that one gathering... but I decided not to bother.

Anyway, I really don't believe that someone, as stunted as DJT, is as smart as the claim.

I understand that IQ is not the same as education or learning, but in my experience, people with high IQs are curious about their situation, about the world, the universe. I don't detect that with DJT.

nor do I care. He's a f****** hate driven idiot.

I do agree that I expect people of higher IQ to be more curious and able to understand their own limitations - which can be a handicap - stupid people often overcompensate and are infuriatingly cocky for people who tend to be saying things that are blindingly obvious to us thinking people.

my writing skills are almost non-existent.

It has always been a failing of mine. Reading comprehension, otoh, is pretty good.

Grammar rules are easy to learn.

that's why I'm a functional illiterate.

If so, "me" would be correct. Had s/he added "am" at the end, then I agree that "than I am" would be right.

my penmanship is absolutely horrible as well.

From a very early age I learned to type on keyboards... so I gave up writing with pens or pencils except to sign my name.

On my SAT scores in high school, I scored 800 out of 800 on math, but only 780 on english/verbal...

I willing to believe that I write poorly.

you were correct!

I guess that's how the grand masters of Jeopardy do it.

I think he's been rich enough to surround himself with people who do have some sense. He sucks the smart outta them and acts like it's all him.

Same as his golf .