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applegrove

(118,809 posts)
Wed Feb 15, 2017, 09:33 PM Feb 2017

The psychiatrist who wrote the definition of narcissistic personality disorder says Trump doesn't ha

by Harry Cockburn

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/psychiatrist-allen-frances-donald-trump-mentally-ill-world-class-narcissist-a7582131.html

"SNIP...........


“He may be a world-class narcissist, but this doesn’t make him mentally ill, because he does not suffer from the distress and impairment required to diagnose mental disorder,” he said.

Psychology Today notes that 50-75 per cent of the people diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder are male.

It also warns that it is common for many adolescents to display the characteristics listed above but says “this does not indicate that they will later develop narcissistic personality disorder”.

Professor Frances, who is currently professor emeritus of psychiatry and behavioural sciences at Duke University Medical College, finished his letter with a withering verdict on Mr Trump’s cognitive impetuses and indicated that challenging the President’s mental health would be unproductive.

He wrote: “His psychological motivations are too obvious to be interesting, and analysing them will not halt his headlong power grab. The antidote to a dystopic Trumpean dark age is political, not psychological.”


.............SNIP"

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The psychiatrist who wrote the definition of narcissistic personality disorder says Trump doesn't ha (Original Post) applegrove Feb 2017 OP
I heard this story a week ago, and disagreed with it then. kwassa Feb 2017 #1
No impairment ? drray23 Feb 2017 #2
Oh I agree he's dyslexic like I am. applegrove Feb 2017 #9
To be clear i did not mean to imply drray23 Feb 2017 #11
Oh dyslexia has its advantages like 3D thinking and dynamic reasoning. applegrove Feb 2017 #14
So Cheetolini is dilettante narcissist MrScorpio Feb 2017 #3
usually to qualify bluedye33139 Feb 2017 #4
I read this earlier today, but it didn't included the list of symptoms. Dark n Stormy Knight Feb 2017 #5
Also narcissistic personality disorder is not a diagnosis that warrants removal from office LeftInTX Feb 2017 #6
But he could easily be diagnosed with psychopathy pandr32 Feb 2017 #7
Has Doctor Frances examined Trump? guillaumeb Feb 2017 #8
You don't need to be a doctor to see that SOMETHING is wrong with him....not sure the hell TrekLuver Feb 2017 #10
watch this Dr Justin Frank bdamomma Feb 2017 #12
sure are a lot of shrinks saying otherwise matt819 Feb 2017 #13
Since he wrote it FigTree Feb 2017 #15

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
1. I heard this story a week ago, and disagreed with it then.
Wed Feb 15, 2017, 09:40 PM
Feb 2017

Trump is highly impaired, and not as successful as this psychologist believes.

Many other psychologists disagree with this guy, and say that it is narcissistic personality disorder.

drray23

(7,637 posts)
2. No impairment ?
Wed Feb 15, 2017, 09:40 PM
Feb 2017

Where has he been ? Trump displays it daily. He is incapable to focus on a topic, cannot string together sentences outside of a vocabulary of about 50 words ( tremendous, great, unfair, unbelievable, etc... ), can not exercise enough discipline to avoid spewing nonsense on twitter, etc....



drray23

(7,637 posts)
11. To be clear i did not mean to imply
Wed Feb 15, 2017, 10:25 PM
Feb 2017

That dyslexia is something to be ashamed of. I am quite familiar with it. My thesis advisor who is now retired was a very prominent physicist, yet he was dyxlexic. He could not write anything without missing or swapping words, yet his oratory skills were flawless. It was so bad that he had to get a special note from doctors back in the 50's to be able to finish high school. Back then it was not widely known and a lot of stigma was attached to it.

I ended up correcting a lot of his publications to make them readable before submitting. This did net me a fair number of extra publications...

Trump is beyond that. If he does have dyslexia, he has a unique opportunity to put it front and center and further reduce the stigma associated with it. Instead, he makes fun of people with disabilities.




applegrove

(118,809 posts)
14. Oh dyslexia has its advantages like 3D thinking and dynamic reasoning.
Wed Feb 15, 2017, 10:51 PM
Feb 2017

Remember we as humans have only been reading en mass for 200 years. So dyslexia was likely not an issue before then. It is a different perspective. Lots of politicians are dyslexic. But Trump seems to be playing to its weaknesses like the slow learning curve of dyslexics as they learn in 3D. Not on paper. I meant dyslexia as a type of intellect. On top of that he is selfish and a liar which don't have anything to do with dyslexia.

bluedye33139

(1,474 posts)
4. usually to qualify
Wed Feb 15, 2017, 09:42 PM
Feb 2017

Usually to qualify for a mental health diagnosis, the subject must exhibit clinically significant impairment in role functioning and distress. Like Hannibal Lecter, Trump serenely watches his environment and responds instinctively to stimuli. He does not experience distress, or any noticeable affect. Except rage. Rage! Rage and apathy. And boredom. And emptiness.

Dark n Stormy Knight

(9,771 posts)
5. I read this earlier today, but it didn't included the list of symptoms.
Wed Feb 15, 2017, 09:44 PM
Feb 2017

Looks to me like Trump has more than five of these:
-Exaggerates own importance
-Is preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence or ideal romance
-Believes he or she is special and can only be understood by other special people or institutions
-Requires constant attention and admiration from others
-Has unreasonable expectations of favourable treatment
-Takes advantage of others to reach his or her own goals
-Disregards the feelings of others, lacks empathy
-Is often envious of others or believes other people are envious of him or her
-Shows arrogant behaviours and attitude

I don't see where the DSM says "distress and impairment" are "required to diagnose mental disorder."

I'm all for taking stigma away from mental illness, but this is not clearing things up, as least for me.

LeftInTX

(25,567 posts)
6. Also narcissistic personality disorder is not a diagnosis that warrants removal from office
Wed Feb 15, 2017, 09:45 PM
Feb 2017

Personality disorders are pervasive, but people are often able to function with them, although they make everyone around them miserable. Among personality disorders NPP is probably one of the more benign. More debilitating personality disorders exist such as sociopathic and borderline.

Schizophrenia, Alzheimer's etc would probably warrant removal from office.

pandr32

(11,617 posts)
7. But he could easily be diagnosed with psychopathy
Wed Feb 15, 2017, 09:46 PM
Feb 2017

He covers the checklist well, and if he did not have the tremendous luck and cover of a wealthy and connected family his personality disorder would likely have landed him in and out of prisons--not just military school due to his incorrigible behavior in his teens (sent there by his exasperated and wealthy family).
Besides, narcissistic traits are commonly found in psychopathy.

 

TrekLuver

(2,573 posts)
10. You don't need to be a doctor to see that SOMETHING is wrong with him....not sure the hell
Wed Feb 15, 2017, 09:59 PM
Feb 2017

what but something.

matt819

(10,749 posts)
13. sure are a lot of shrinks saying otherwise
Wed Feb 15, 2017, 10:34 PM
Feb 2017

And if he isn't impaired, the s he plain fucking evil, whether or not there's a DSM diagnosis for that.

FigTree

(347 posts)
15. Since he wrote it
Wed Feb 15, 2017, 11:46 PM
Feb 2017

he should know, or at least mention, that the defining characteristic of personality disorders is to be ego-syntonic, meaning that individuals in these categories typically see little if anything wrong with them. Therefore, they rarely experience distress or impairment. Which would be ego-dystonic.They wind up in the system due to difficulties with others (e.g. spouses, co-workers, problems with the law). As a result, they are typically resistant to treatment, pharmaceutical or otherwise. And as another result, they are considered by us, clinicians, as severe cases with generally poor prognosis.
This is why the ICD 10, not the American Psychiatric Association cash-cow called the DSM, adds "the disorder leads to considerable personal distress but this may only become apparent late in its course". The use of the word "may" also indicating that it may not.
The point is not to "challenge" this individual but to acknowledge the fact that a clearly disturbed person has access to the highest level of power in this country. Not through some sort of a coup or some physical manipulation, like Putin or other mafiosi around the world, but through the use of institutional channels.

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