General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTrump's new law that lets coal companies dump waste into streams will kill and/or hurt people
The bottom line is that Trump's law that will allow for more AMD (acid mine drainage)
is that it might hurt and or kill people and it will also not bring back the coal jobs that
have been lost over the past 50 years too.
When coal and the waste products from coal mining mix with water and air you get
iron pyrite (rust), sulfuric, and sulfonic acid and when this mix gets into the creeks and streams
you have AMD or as it is called in some areas "yellow boy." AMD not only kills fishes and other
animal life in the streams and rivers but it also weakens and or kills a lot of the vegetation
that grow along the water ways.
Given the topography of much of "coal country" is that of steep hills and valleys the conditions for flooding
are always present. This flooding might be exacerbated because the vegetated buffers in and along the
waterways were damaged by AMD. Higher flood levels, more erosion, and trees being washed into the
watershed all can be expected outcomes of these common flood events. Every year people in coal country die in
these local floods and their homes, roads, farms, and businesses get damaged too. Trump's law might very well
make these floods worse.
This risk of bigger floods are a steep price to pay for coal jobs that will not be coming back because the power plants now
burn natural gas because it is cheaper, cleaner, and easier to use then coal.
http://gizmodo.com/why-trumps-plan-to-put-bring-back-coal-jobs-makes-no-se-1792481223
WhiteTara
(29,719 posts)This too is another unraveling. Do they think they won't have to drink the water or breathe the air?
Botany
(70,539 posts)now we are going to go back to rust colored creeks.
putitinD
(1,551 posts)coal, figured out that natural gas is much cleaner, cheaper, and safer? Gas is what killed coal, not Obama!
former9thward
(32,046 posts)Coal is used for 33% of electricity in the U.S. In addition coal is needed for steel production and no, natural gas can't make steel.
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=427&t=3
IdiotsforPalin
(170 posts)federal aid for disasters caused by the roll back of these protections. No aid for an health ailments. Nothing zero.
Dustlawyer
(10,496 posts)recovering in a civil suit.
JudyM
(29,251 posts)One party can control the whole government and plunder without regard to law or ethics.
Personally, I think we need legislation that will hold environmentally destructive decisions/activities to strict scrutiny. If we get in power again, we should make it a Constitutional amendment.
TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)former9thward
(32,046 posts)Unbelievable. Is there someone out there to arrest all the fish, birds, and countless other animals that take dumps in streams?
TrekLuver
(2,573 posts)poli3
(174 posts)caused 2 anti-green presidents to be elected.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)The guestioning is how many lives will be ruined or outright lost during the meantime?
Turbineguy
(37,359 posts)much of the AMD comes from coal operations that shut down
20 or more years ago. This just lets the coal industry not
clean up their left over crap. I forget the amount but a
fee of a few cents on every ton of coal is supposed to be used
for clean up operations. This just lets the rich coal bosses
keep their money and does nothing for the miners.
mopinko
(70,155 posts)people blow up mountains and turn them into dust to extract metals. this stuff is already dust. why dont they mine this stuff?
am i crazy here? i keep asking this question and nobody has yet told me i'm nuts.
PufPuf23
(8,802 posts)water percolates through the leavings from the mining and dissolves the previously stable metals and other toxic chemicals.
There are Super Fund sites that were once mines that have plants built that gather and process the dangerous leached fluids and extract the toxicity, this applies to other former metal mines (copper for instance). The "product" of the mediation plants separates the toxic from the leached fluid that is then landfilled and stable and not bleeding toxins into the environment.
The process is very expensive, not a net money maker, and the situations very common (and may not have the concentrated toxins where collection and processing is feasible).
Your not nuts but there is not a practical solution in many cases and one that is economically feasible rare. When such a process is undertaken, the process rather than being a money maker is the low cost remediation to an existing problem where there is a feasible means to gather the runoff.
A good example is the Iron Mountain Super Fund site near Redding, CA where a water treatment plant was built to treat toxic runoff as part of remediation:
>>Iron Mountain Mine, also known as the Richmond Mine at Iron Mountain, is a mine near Redding in Northern California, USA. Geologically classified as a "massive sulfide ore deposit", the site was mined for iron, silver, gold, copper, zinc and pyrite intermittently from the 1860s until 1963. The mine is the source of extremely acidic mine drainage which also contains large amounts of zinc, copper and cadmium. One of America's most toxic waste sites, it has been listed as a federal Superfund site since 1983.[1]
History
The site was mined by the Mountain Copper Company, Ltd., both underground using open stope mining techniques and at the surface in the form of open pit and sidehill mining. As a result, the mountain fractured and mineral deposits were exposed to oxygen, water and certain bacteria, resulting in acidic mine drainage. Though mining operations were discontinued in 1963, underground mine workings, waste rock dumps, piles of mine tailings, and an open mine pit still remain at the site. The mine was designated a Superfund site in 1983 and a water treatment plant was built in 1994. In 2000 the government reached a settlement with Aventis CropScience (now part of Bayer) for the long-term funding of the cleanup efforts.[1]
Location and drainage
Collecting drainage in the Iron Mountain Mine
The mine is located at 40°40?20?N 122°31?40?W in the Klamath Mountains of Shasta County, about 9 miles northwest of Redding. The mine area is drained by several creeks which ultimately enter the Spring Creek Reservoir, formed by the Spring Creek Dam, and finally the Keswick Reservoir formed by a dam across the Sacramento River. This reservoir is a major source of drinking water for Redding.
Historic mining activity at the site has fractured the mountain, exposing minerals in the mountain to surface water, rain water, and oxygen. When pyrite is exposed to moisture and oxygen, sulfuric acid forms. This sulfuric acid runs through the mountain and leaches out copper, cadmium, zinc, and other heavy metals. This acid flows out of the seeps and portals of the mine. Much of the acidic mine drainage ultimately is channeled into the Spring Creek Reservoir by creeks surrounding the mine. The Bureau of Reclamation periodically releases the stored acid mine drainage into Keswick Reservoir. Planned releases are timed to coincide with the presence of diluting releases of water from Shasta Dam. On occasion, uncontrolled spills and excessive waste releases have occurred when Spring Creek Reservoir reached capacity. Without sufficient dilution, this results in the release of harmful quantities of heavy metals into the Sacramento River. Approximately 70,000 people use surface water within 3 miles as their source of drinking water. The low pH level and the heavy metal contamination from the mine have caused the virtual elimination of aquatic life in sections of Slickrock Creek, Boulder Creek, and Spring Creek.
The drainage water from the Iron Mountain Mine is the most acidic water naturally found on Earth; some samples collected in 1990 and 1991 have been measured to have a pH value of -3.6.[2] Water temperatures as high as 47°C have been measured underground.
The drainage water endangers fish, including winter-run Chinook salmon, a federally listed endangered species that spawns in the Sacramento River. Salmon kills have been noted since 1899.
from wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Mountain_Mine
PufPuf23
(8,802 posts)Rust is an iron oxide; a iron, oxygen, and hydrogen compound.
Iron pyrite is an iron sulfide; a sulfur and iron compound.
Both are in waste water runoff from coal mining.
Just correcting the chemistry; agree and have no problem with article.
Botany
(70,539 posts)You are right about the chemistry but I dumbed it down a little
bit .... sorry
FeSO4 + H2O + O2 goes to H2SO4 and Fe ????? .... It has been years
PufPuf23
(8,802 posts)Nothing to be sorry about you made a good post.
I think the importance is that the mining fractures and exposes rock to water and oxygen and a nasty brew including sulfuric acid (H2SO4) and heavy metals in solution leaches out and into watersheds and is difficult to "remediate". An extreme example is the iron Mountain Mine cited in my other post.
Botany
(70,539 posts)FeSO4 + H2O + O2 goes to H2SO4 and FeOH (some kind of iron oxide) ... it has been years
The sulfur in coal comes as FeSO4 and as elemental sulfur (yellow clumps)
In the past 6 years I have seen creeks in S.E. OH that ran red orange with
AMD for 30 + years cleaned up ..... I fear w/Trump's law those gains will be lost.
this law will not get any coal jobs back but it will let the coal companies and coal
bosses pocket the few cents per ton on coal that is supposed to go to "clean up"
work in the coal fields.
PufPuf23
(8,802 posts)I dread the idea of general weakening and reduced enforcement of environmental laws under Trump.
I also worry about the privatization of public lands and natural resources.
The money grubbers will gladly pocket any margin they can access.
My chemistry education and any practical use is far in the past too.
Cha
(297,425 posts)Wouldn't be the first time toxic waste has killed people/made them sick.