General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOk, so the penalty for not buying insurance is completely unenforcable, by statute.
Notwithstanding any other provision of law
(A) Waiver of criminal penalties
In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
(B) Limitations on liens and levies
The Secretary shall not
(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or
(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111 :./temp/~c1118ZCuxe:e406299:
(edit: ok that link has unclickable smilie faces. Try this one:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5000A )
1) So healthy people who don't have insurance don't have to buy it, and don't have to pay a penalty.
2) If they get sick, or pregnant, they can go buy insurance since insurance companies can't discriminate against pre-existing conditions.
3) When they get better they can drop their insurance and carry on as before.
This is the exact *opposite* of a mandate. Someone should start a PSA ad campaign urging people to drop their insurance since they can always pick it up later. More disposable income for lots of middle class healthy families. Hell it's an automatic stimulus package!
Cool.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)and plenty of other ways. The IRS has been working on enforcement mechanisms for this for the past two years and is hiring hundreds (and soon thousands) of extra personnel to enforce this.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)Oh, really? Must be nice to be able to make that kind of assumption.
ETA: And when these folks just go out and buy insurance, I guess you also have a plan for how they cover their deductible and co-pays.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)from any income tax refund that you are receiving.
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)of a few hundred dollars. So long as a majority of the withholding is paid timely, you have, iirc, 10% leeway. So if at M & 2 you get a refund of $2000, perhaps change your W4 for the new year to M&4 and you should owe about $200 (better yet, check the tables and figure out the best place to be where you'll owe very little), then pay that on or before April 15th and viola! no refund to attach.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)frazzled
(18,402 posts)of taxes?
Do you enjoy living on the brink of destiny, going without any insurance ... so you can save $395? (while the rest of us may have to pick up a $30,000 tab for you when a bus hits you as you cross the street?).
I feel like we are on Free Republic here today. Me, me, me --- my money, the gubmint can't tell me what to do, let everyone fend for themselves. Jeezus.
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)People do not have money. We are in what Krugman calls a depression. Our wages have been declining for decades. Technocratic solutions that attempt to squeeze blood out of turnips so that government spreadsheets look marginally better while the .01% is allowed to extract ever more rents on the middle class can only fail. People are rightly rebelling against this corrupted system.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Lionessa
(3,894 posts)it can be what ever you want it to be so long as at the end of the year you're within 10% of what will be owed for the year.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)(a) Civil penalty
In addition to any criminal penalty provided by law, if
(1) any individual makes a statement under section 3402 orsection 3406 which results in a decrease in the amounts deducted and withheld under chapter 24, and
(2) as of the time such statement was made, there was no reasonable basis for such statement,
such individual shall pay a penalty of $500 for such statement.
(b) Exception
The Secretary may waive (in whole or in part) the penalty imposed under subsection (a) if the taxes imposed with respect to the individual under subtitle A for the taxable year are equal to or less than the sum of
(1) the credits against such taxes allowed by part IV of subchapter A of chapter 1, and
(2) the payments of estimated tax which are considered payments on account of such taxes.
(c) Deficiency procedures not to apply
Subchapter B of chapter 63 (relating to deficiency procedures for income, estate, gift, and certain excise taxes) shall not apply in respect to the assessment or collection of any penalty imposed by subsection (a).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6682
The statute says that the Secretary "may waive (in whole or in part)" the penalty. You are saying that the Secretary will waive the penalty or that no penalty is applicable.
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)of substantial amount.
Response to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #14)
Lionessa This message was self-deleted by its author.
regnaD kciN
(26,045 posts)If you "raise the number of dependents," you have to provide valid SSNs for those new dependents. If you get caught doing so (and the IRS does cross-check, so you can't simply use other family members), you can be charged with criminal fraud and tax evasion, which most definitely do carry criminal penalties.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)The Tax Code, 26 U.S.C., imposes both (a) civil penalties and (b) criminal penalities.
The civil penalties applicable under 26 USC § 5000A are covered beginning at 5000A(b)
(1) In general
If a taxpayer who is an applicable individual, or an applicable individual for whom the taxpayer is liable under paragraph (3), fails to meet the requirement of subsection (a) for 1 or more months, then, except as provided in subsection (e), there is hereby imposed on the taxpayer a penalty with respect to such failures in the amount determined under subsection (c).
By its own terms, the special rules under 26 USC § 5000A(g)(2)(A) regarding penalties are limited to criminal penalties.
Notwithstanding any other provision of law
(A) Waiver of criminal penalties In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
Also, by its own terms, the special rules under 26 USC § 5000A(g)(2)(B) regarding liens and levies is limited to liens and levies.
(B) Limitations on liens and levies
The Secretary shall not
(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or
(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.
The IRS is not required to rely upon liens and levies to enforce civil penalties.
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)that no criminal penalties may be imposed, hence we cannot be put in jail for failure to pay. Furthermore, since the IRS does not need liens and levies and instead simply demands payment, they can do that in whatever manner is acceptable such as wage garnishment?
Or are you essentially agreeing with the OP in what seems a disagreeable manner?
Truly confused by some of your wording, not being snarky.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)have decided to take.
One approach that could be taken is that the IRS could apply withholding taxes to the penalty instead of a taxpayer's normal tax liability and then go after a taxpayer on the grounds that an amount was still due on the normal tax liability. It is too soon to tell, however.
Am I essentially agreeing with the OP? No. The OP is operating under the impression that the IRS is powerless to collect a penalty when a statute provides that neither the criminal penalty procedures nor the levy and lien procedures are applicable. This is a meme that is causing confusion with some on the web. Congress did not adopt the civil penalty provision and pass the collection responsibility to the IRS without intending for the IRS to collect it.
We can expect the IRS to issue one or more Announcements and one or more Revenue Procedures.
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)the penalty tax. You believe him to be wrong as well?
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)No criminal penalties, and civil penalties require a lien.
All they can do to collect is reduce your tax refunds, or harass you enough so that you pay for them to go away.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)You say, "All they can do to collect is reduce your tax refunds, or harass you ..."
If what you say is true, then all you have to do is never pay more taxes than what you actually owe for your tax liability.
On the other hand, if the IRS has certain powers which have not yet come to your attention, like applying applying withholding taxes to satisfy the penalty while leaving a portion of the regular tax liability unpaid, you'll have an opportunity to discover how toothless the IRS tiger is.
No one from Al Capone to Dan Rostenkowski has ever taken the position that the IRS is powerless to enforce a provision within the Tax Code. If you want to believe that the IRS is powerless in this area, believe what you want. If you want to test them, do that too.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Never mind.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)That late payment incurs a penalty.
They can not use withholding from next year's taxes to pay that penalty. They can deduct from next year's refund, assuming you get one.
ETA: They also have several other civil and criminal means to collect that specific penalty.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)To the earliest unpaid tax, then
To any penalty (other than the penalty for paying late), fees, charges, or other additions to tax assessed prior to the next unpaid tax assessment.
Repeat 1) and 2) for any unused portion of each payment until the payment is used up, or until all tax, penalty (other than the penalty for paying late), fees, charges, or other additions to tax are paid. If all are paid, any unused remainder is applied in accordance with c) below.
Using made up numbers to make this simpler:
You owe $100 in tax.
You pay late. Lets say it's a 1% penalty so $1.
You send them a check for $100. That is applied to the tax. You now owe $0 in tax, but $1 in a penalty for paying late.
You start paying next year's taxes via paycheck deduction. You did not change your W4 so you will owe taxes the next year. You still owe $1 for paying late.
Your new payments are applied to the taxes you owe this year - they are due as you earn the money. At the end of the year, you owe $100 in tax again, and still owe $1 for paying late last year.
You pay late again this year. You now owe $2 in late fees.
If you send in a check for $102, the extra will go to your late fees per section c.
Igel
(35,359 posts)You're kidding, surely.
Combined with fees, penalties, and interest, failing to pay the amount due would be pretty nasty. Bank accounts and wages and Federal/state entitlement payments aren't "property."
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)"shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or (criminal) penalty"
There can be a civil, financial penalty, but the IRS cannot seize property to enforce payment of that particular debt to the government.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)You're so very wrong. The ways you are wrong have already been enumerated above, but you're, like, super wrong.
MADem
(135,425 posts)the Commonwealth.
They'll get it one way or another. It's very affordable, though, in MA. Income driven. It works very well here.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)You make a good case, but I'm no expert...