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Amaryllis

(9,525 posts)
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 08:16 PM Mar 2017

A sincere request to those posting stuff you are watching on TV...

Thread titles such as "XXX just dropped a bombshell", "XXX is on fire", "I can't believe what XXX just said", etc., with no other info are ... frustrating, to say the least, and leave many without a clue.

Not all of us are glued to MSNBC all day. I do not have television. I need to wait till it is online to watch and sometimes there is not enough info posted to make searching easy. Sometimes the post does not even list whose show you are watching.

I know it can be very exciting to see real journalism on such critical topics as we are facing now, but PLEASE put enough context that we know what you are talking about so:
1. we are not totally clueless what you are talking about, are not left out, and can join the discussion, and
2. we have enough info to know if we want to go search for the segment, and to find it easily if we do want to search for it.

Thank you.

91 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A sincere request to those posting stuff you are watching on TV... (Original Post) Amaryllis Mar 2017 OP
where did this come from? is this in response to some specific thread? link please? unblock Mar 2017 #1
this happens all the time. posts without context. sometimes pretty enigmatic.nt. drray23 Mar 2017 #6
Here's an example-and I know you're being rhetorically snarky TexasProgresive Mar 2017 #19
It's a way to start a conversation treestar Mar 2017 #70
This: ANOTHER RACHEL BOMBSHELL TONIGHT. question everything Mar 2017 #86
5 W's and an H. Who, What, When, Where, Why and How. TeamPooka Mar 2017 #87
See my post #3 a few below your response. I have no problem with the post you linked to BECAUSE: Amaryllis Mar 2017 #89
You handle this issue with more finesse and politeness than I do. But, I second your request. NBachers Mar 2017 #2
Thank you. I tried hard to be diplomatic...I think after so much frustration with MSM Amaryllis Mar 2017 #3
I agree. Someone recently posted something about OldHippieChick Mar 2017 #4
Tweety on fire? shadowmayor Mar 2017 #32
Who is this "tweety" and why should I care? hunter Mar 2017 #78
Tweety equals Chris Matthews Fantastic Anarchist Mar 2017 #83
K&R... PoiBoy Mar 2017 #5
This is my #1 pet peeves about DU. AngryAmish Mar 2017 #7
Thank you. It's so fucking annoying! 50 Shades Of Blue Mar 2017 #8
Yes Tree-Hugger Mar 2017 #9
Hear, hear! smirkymonkey Mar 2017 #10
Big hand for the OP Elwood P Dowd Mar 2017 #11
What is OP? See people refer to it but don't know what it means. Amaryllis Mar 2017 #12
Original Post CurtEastPoint Mar 2017 #17
Original post i.e. the start of a discussion. TexasProgresive Mar 2017 #18
IDKWYATA SticksnStones Mar 2017 #23
ROTFLMAOASTC Virtual Burlesque Mar 2017 #65
I LOVE that one leftynyc Mar 2017 #73
K&R thbobby Mar 2017 #22
Kick and recommend SticksnStones Mar 2017 #24
Thank you! thbobby Mar 2017 #26
I thought it was recs that moved it up...rather than replies. It's number of recs on greatest Amaryllis Mar 2017 #46
Replies move it on up SticksnStones Mar 2017 #47
I think that's why they invented Google.. HipChick Mar 2017 #13
Well, that's ridiculous Orrex Mar 2017 #49
Thank you !!! SCantiGOP Mar 2017 #14
It was getting a little carried away elmac Mar 2017 #15
This is the Only malaise rule. She's the only poster allowed to do it. That is all. nt msanthrope Mar 2017 #16
+1 nt SticksnStones Mar 2017 #25
ROFL malaise Mar 2017 #68
Happens all the time. Okay, okay, very often.nt zentrum Mar 2017 #20
That's been one of my pet peeves about this site. George II Mar 2017 #21
I only have basic cable access. I go to YouTube to see excerpts from Mahr, Oliver, etc. YOHABLO Mar 2017 #27
Yes, but... you need enough info in the post to know what to search for. Amaryllis Mar 2017 #29
Smiling...in silent lucidity. slumcamper Mar 2017 #28
Well said SCantiGOP Mar 2017 #39
Damn. I've been outed. slumcamper Mar 2017 #56
Not talking about spoon feeding here. Talking about providing a clue so you even have a lead to Amaryllis Mar 2017 #50
Yeah, I get that. Frustrating, but intriguing; challenging. n/t slumcamper Mar 2017 #55
Not to mention... ChazInAz Mar 2017 #57
That is frustrating but at least they provide the tweet so you have a clue to follow. Clueless Amaryllis Mar 2017 #58
I'm glad you're so enlightened to be able to discern enough information ... Fantastic Anarchist Mar 2017 #84
No ... thank YOU! NurseJackie Mar 2017 #30
Maybe there should be a live thread group specifically for people watching and commenting on TV. Kablooie Mar 2017 #31
Agreed! Pacifist Patriot Mar 2017 #33
I like this idea DesertRat Mar 2017 #40
I'm actually so glad that there ARE some folks here that CAN watch a lot of news and FailureToCommunicate Mar 2017 #34
I also appreciate it when someone posts what is happening in real time, WHEN and IF, Amaryllis Mar 2017 #45
Irritates the daylights out of me, but... Pacifist Patriot Mar 2017 #35
thanks yes and if it is "pay TV" please let us know. Thanks Sunlei Mar 2017 #36
"Turn on Rachel right fuggin' now!" PDittie Mar 2017 #37
Post removed Post removed Mar 2017 #38
. Stinky The Clown Mar 2017 #64
Thank You...very kind way of putting it.......I like the word...PLEASE,, Stuart G Mar 2017 #41
I've been asking for this since I started on DU in late 2003 NewJeffCT Mar 2017 #42
Boils down to convenience for ONE writer vs. convenience of 100s of readers. Assymetric Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2017 #43
Dude, you are a math genius! Amaryllis Mar 2017 #48
This message was self-deleted by its author Hokie Mar 2017 #51
I like it stopwastingmymoney Mar 2017 #62
Oh I do so love the way you think! Pacifist Patriot Mar 2017 #72
And, I Think You're Underestimating The Impact ProfessorGAC Mar 2017 #74
I was told that there would be no math... Jokerman Mar 2017 #77
Gotta get those "post numbers up" !! vkkv Mar 2017 #80
Convenience is indeed, the currency of the lazy mind. LanternWaste Mar 2017 #85
Agree with you op .... LenaBaby61 Mar 2017 #44
5 W's and an H. Who, What, When, Where, Why and How. TeamPooka Mar 2017 #52
I'm bewildered that these OPs get recs that put them on the "Greatest" page ThoughtCriminal Mar 2017 #53
I do have TV and I do often watch MSNBC. drm604 Mar 2017 #54
Back 2 the top. sarcasmo Mar 2017 #59
It can be very disappointing. butdiduvote Mar 2017 #60
I too have felt frustrated Mountain Mule Mar 2017 #61
Plus one, this use of clickbaity post headlines bugs me too. n/t paulkienitz Mar 2017 #63
Yes please. It's like hearing only the punch line of a joke and not getting it ... betsuni Mar 2017 #66
Thank you, Amaryllis! BlueMTexpat Mar 2017 #67
I don't mind it; it's a DU thing. treestar Mar 2017 #69
Yes, please. n/t Orsino Mar 2017 #71
Hear! Hear! Roland99 Mar 2017 #75
Ignore them or don't read them? chelsea0011 Mar 2017 #76
How might one do that, exactly? Orrex Mar 2017 #82
Or, just hear me out, she could ask politely for more context ... Fantastic Anarchist Mar 2017 #91
Agreed !!! Far too many empty BULLSHIT posts that are pretty much CLICK-BAIT to nothing more vkkv Mar 2017 #79
Yes! I never understood why someone would post a tease ... Fantastic Anarchist Mar 2017 #81
preach it dembotoz Mar 2017 #88
Agree - tired of OPs with no context SharonClark Mar 2017 #90

unblock

(52,264 posts)
1. where did this come from? is this in response to some specific thread? link please?
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 08:19 PM
Mar 2017


sorry, i'm addicted to snark. i really should find myself a program....

treestar

(82,383 posts)
70. It's a way to start a conversation
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 07:04 AM
Mar 2017

just say "what did he say that was good?"

I never watch Tweety but find it amusing when he is discussed. He's a sort of comical figure.

Amaryllis

(9,525 posts)
89. See my post #3 a few below your response. I have no problem with the post you linked to BECAUSE:
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 03:39 PM
Mar 2017

"Another Rachel bombshell tonight" is enough of a heading to give me an idea what the thread is about, AND (here is the critical factor):
The person posting did a good job of providing enough context after the subject heading that I knew what it was about, knew I wanted to go find it, and it was easy to find.

It really doesn't need to be a lot of info to accomplish that.

What I object to are the posts that say something like "Rachel dropped a bombshell" and you click on it, and ....nothing. No clue what the person is watching and not enough info that we could find it if we wanted to.

Amaryllis

(9,525 posts)
3. Thank you. I tried hard to be diplomatic...I think after so much frustration with MSM
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 08:30 PM
Mar 2017

not doing much real journalism for so long that people just get excited and want to post quickly to let other others know to turn on their TV if they can...but they could go back and add info later if that is the case, so...what I said in the post. It really doesn't take a lot. Like this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028757647

Poster gave enough info that I had enough context to know what it was about, knew I wanted to go find it, and it was easy to find. It really doesn't need to be a lot of info to accomplish that:

ANOTHER RACHEL BOMBSHELL TONIGHT.

Potentially the biggest bombshell of them all.

Trump financially in cahoots with terrorists. A complicated story. Huge blackmail potential.

WATCH IT as soon as it is posted. Please.

And call/write MSNBC to request that NBC provide Rachel with security.

Update: The New Yorker reporter who investigated this mess? He needs protection too.

OldHippieChick

(2,434 posts)
4. I agree. Someone recently posted something about
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 08:30 PM
Mar 2017

Tweety being on fire, but gave no details on what was said. So, it was a waste of my time to even follow the OP

hunter

(38,321 posts)
78. Who is this "tweety" and why should I care?
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 10:59 AM
Mar 2017

I don't watch television.

Our television plays commercial free movies. That's all it does.

I will look at the occasional YouTube video of John Oliver, Stephen Colbert, etc.., but I'd rather read stuff.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
83. Tweety equals Chris Matthews
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 02:16 PM
Mar 2017

Bombastic blowhards opportunist, who interrupts his guests with machine-gun-like questions, who occasionally gets it right.

He's not a terrible guy, just frustrating.

 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
7. This is my #1 pet peeves about DU.
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 08:36 PM
Mar 2017

If I watch more than 5 minutes of cable news I contemplate suicide. The stupidity of it all.

Yet I understand some people are shut ins and need to spike their emotions...But, please.

(And going on Du serves the same purpose, so I am a hypocrite).

TexasProgresive

(12,157 posts)
18. Original post i.e. the start of a discussion.
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 09:12 PM
Mar 2017

That's another of my pet peeves in online discussions, the use of esoteric acronyms that everyone is suppose to know.

thbobby

(1,474 posts)
22. K&R
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 09:30 PM
Mar 2017

I think this will give a lot of people a chuckle, but hey, I am not very smart. What does K&R mean? I know is has to be well known, but like I said... DUH!

SticksnStones

(2,108 posts)
24. Kick and recommend
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 09:33 PM
Mar 2017

Posting a response kicks the thread to the top of the read list. Recommend well, that's the button on the bottom left in the Orignal Post screen DURec

thbobby

(1,474 posts)
26. Thank you!
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 09:42 PM
Mar 2017

Being an old redneck C programmer, all I could imagine was Kernighan and Richie. Redneck is, of course, somewhat facetious. And somewhat true. I am a bumpkin, not a hater. Still, thanks!

Amaryllis

(9,525 posts)
46. I thought it was recs that moved it up...rather than replies. It's number of recs on greatest
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 10:35 PM
Mar 2017

threads...where do replies move it up?

SticksnStones

(2,108 posts)
47. Replies move it on up
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 10:43 PM
Mar 2017

Recommends just track it's 'popularity' and interest show by other DUers. But the main lists of OPs are sorted by time of last response as the default view. You can change your 'sort by' view by tapping on the column title...or at least that's my understanding.

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
13. I think that's why they invented Google..
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 09:01 PM
Mar 2017

Most of the time,information is on the net...I don't have MSNBC on or CNN all day...

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
49. Well, that's ridiculous
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 10:44 PM
Mar 2017

If the look-at-me OP is so tingly that they just have to share, it's stupid to expect the readers to scour Google on the off chance that they find what the OP is talking about and, further, that they agree that the subject is so amazing that the OP couldn't possibly have bothered to post a link.

It's click-bait, pure and simple, and it's a shitty, inconsiderate tactic.

SCantiGOP

(13,871 posts)
14. Thank you !!!
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 09:04 PM
Mar 2017

I have been blasted for posting this before. Threads that start with something like: "Boom, they just got nailed" are weak attempts to get hits for a post.
Please people, just post the subject in the - what's it called? - oh yeah, the Subject Line.

 

elmac

(4,642 posts)
15. It was getting a little carried away
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 09:08 PM
Mar 2017

I would get excited if Comcast MSNBC would ever talk about net neutrality, and we all know why they don't. Its all still canned corporate propaganda.

George II

(67,782 posts)
21. That's been one of my pet peeves about this site.
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 09:24 PM
Mar 2017

You don't know how many times I see an OP with the subject "OMFG!"

I just ignore them.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
27. I only have basic cable access. I go to YouTube to see excerpts from Mahr, Oliver, etc.
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 09:43 PM
Mar 2017

You can pretty much grab the best of the comments there.

slumcamper

(1,606 posts)
28. Smiling...in silent lucidity.
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 09:47 PM
Mar 2017

It's okay. Although only a 2 year member who largely monitors and learns, I have learned that we need not ALL be simultaneously on the edge of the precipice of late breaking news. I've followed countless cryptic or otherwise enigmatic grains of information posted in excitement and haste. That's my homework. I do not expect to be spoon fed either information, sources, or conclusions, and certainly do not impugn those who might offer scant information that tweaks my own interest. In such cases my interest must motivate and guide me to seek more information.

So post away. I have no problem in using my investigative impulses to follow leads to better inform myself. That's how I roll.


Amaryllis

(9,525 posts)
50. Not talking about spoon feeding here. Talking about providing a clue so you even have a lead to
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 10:54 PM
Mar 2017

follow. I am talking about threads that do not offer enough of a clue to provide a lead to follow. Some don't. A couple examples have been posted on this thread by others.

ChazInAz

(2,571 posts)
57. Not to mention...
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 11:46 PM
Mar 2017

The frequency of "OMFG look at this Tweet!"
Followed with only a link to a tweet, yet no clue as to why I should want to click on it.

Amaryllis

(9,525 posts)
58. That is frustrating but at least they provide the tweet so you have a clue to follow. Clueless
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 11:53 PM
Mar 2017

posts are the ones that I find just incredibly frustrating. But with you ...would far rather have a clue what the tweet is about rather than have to click on it to find out.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
84. I'm glad you're so enlightened to be able to discern enough information ...
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 02:54 PM
Mar 2017

From cryptic posts to know what to search for.

The rest of us mere mortals are busy and/or on mobile, and need a sliver of information to know what to search for, and if it's worth it.

DesertRat

(27,995 posts)
40. I like this idea
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 10:08 PM
Mar 2017

Sometimes I'm watching something by myself and would love to interact with others who are watching, like we sometimes do during debates and speeches.

FailureToCommunicate

(14,014 posts)
34. I'm actually so glad that there ARE some folks here that CAN watch a lot of news and
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 09:58 PM
Mar 2017

post here and give shout outs to the highlights. Otherwise I'd miss loads of interesting, relevant stuff.

Please keep doing it, context or not.

Amaryllis

(9,525 posts)
45. I also appreciate it when someone posts what is happening in real time, WHEN and IF,
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 10:31 PM
Mar 2017

as you say, THEY GIVE SHOUT OUTS TO THE HIGHLIGHTS. I am talking about posts where there ARE no highlights posted; NOTHING to give a clue what the poster is talking about.

See my reply #3 to post #2 above for an example of a post someone did who was watching Rachel and didn't give a lot of info but did a good job of providing enough
info that I:
1. had a general idea what the topic was.
2.Knew I wanted to search to find out more, and
3. could easily find it with an online search

It really doesn't take much to meet those criteria.

Pacifist Patriot

(24,653 posts)
35. Irritates the daylights out of me, but...
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 09:59 PM
Mar 2017

Considering how many times this plea has been made, we will see people follow through on it about the time Trump is actually charged with a crime. In other words, I will believe it when I see it.

Response to Amaryllis (Original post)

Stuart G

(38,436 posts)
41. Thank You...very kind way of putting it.......I like the word...PLEASE,,
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 10:12 PM
Mar 2017
PLEASE put enough context that we know what you are talking about so:
1. we are not totally clueless what you are talking about, are not left out, and can join the discussion, and
2. we have enough info to know if we want to go search for the segment, and to find it easily if we do want to search for it................or...................

in my words............................................................................................................
.............................................................................................................................

LIKE....hay...how about references to what you are talking about...LIKE ......LINKS, TIMES, DATES, and SOURCES..........how about those?????? eh?????

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
42. I've been asking for this since I started on DU in late 2003
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 10:25 PM
Mar 2017

you've gotten way more response than I ever did in asking for it, though. Thanks!

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,013 posts)
43. Boils down to convenience for ONE writer vs. convenience of 100s of readers. Assymetric
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 10:28 PM
Mar 2017

In the General Discussion forum, most threads have at least 300 views. Many have much more, but that would include multiple views as discussions progress. But let's assume 300 readers per Original Post and per most posts at the beginning of a thread as a lower bound on the number.

Dashing off quick OP with an opaque title and a sentence or two saves the writer time. Let's say it takes 30 seconds to do that. For comparison, let's say that a more informative title and several sentences summarizing key points and making a convincing case to view the video (live or YouTube) takes two minutes, 120 seconds for a little more typing and a little more thinking.

On the other side of the equation, a reader reading the better written OP can read it and decide whether to pursue it further within say 20 seconds. But dashed-off OP can easily take 60 seconds to puzzle out what it is referring to and then to glean from sparse clues enough information to decide to whether to pursue it.

However, to dramatize the case, let's suppose the difference in time is only 6 seconds instead of 40 seconds.

If there are 300 readers for every writer, dashing off an OP saves the writer 90 seconds and costs the readers 300 x 6 = 1800 seconds or half an hour.

On the other side of the ledger, if the writer spends an extra 90 seconds she/he saves readers half an hour of time.

Now, isn't it progressive and considerate to invest a mere 90 seconds to save the community a half hour?

Multiply that out by dozens of threads and it becomes easy to see that considerate writers make the community much more efficient.

[font size = "+1"]Who is the writer writing for anyway? Their own ego or the edification and enjoyment of 300 readers?[/font]

Response to Amaryllis (Reply #48)

ProfessorGAC

(65,085 posts)
74. And, I Think You're Underestimating The Impact
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 08:59 AM
Mar 2017

The half hour thing you have here is pretty convincing, but i'm guessing your 90 seconds for the OP is overstated and the number of seconds saved by the readers understated.

So, your case is a most generous example of why people should pay attention to the request in the OP. It saves a lot of other people a lot of time.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
85. Convenience is indeed, the currency of the lazy mind.
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 02:55 PM
Mar 2017

Convenience is indeed, the currency of the lazy mind.

LenaBaby61

(6,976 posts)
44. Agree with you op ....
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 10:29 PM
Mar 2017

I very seldom watch MSNBC or CNN, and I come to this site and see a blaring headline, and I mean blearing, and MOST of the time has very little context and no credible links associated with the story.

A well-meaning poster (I'm sure) posted a headline that scared me to death which appeared like there was something physically wrong with Ruth Bader Ginsburg (She is elderly and has had health issues on and off the last few years), when in reality there wasn't an issue with her health per what RBG was saying. The poster should have set up the headline saying "RBG says she's gonna hang in there as long as she possibly CAN etc...and give some context and credible links to RBG's statement on that day.

It's fine for folks to break stories--especially when they HAVE some context and and solid links to go WITH the story they've "broken."

TeamPooka

(24,232 posts)
52. 5 W's and an H. Who, What, When, Where, Why and How.
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 11:05 PM
Mar 2017

Fill in these blanks and you start a thread with context for fellow DUers.

drm604

(16,230 posts)
54. I do have TV and I do often watch MSNBC.
Tue Mar 7, 2017, 11:24 PM
Mar 2017

But, like you, I am frustrated by cryptic posts lacking context.

butdiduvote

(284 posts)
60. It can be very disappointing.
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 12:16 AM
Mar 2017

Although it has helped me several times by just reminding me that these shows exist. I don't have cable and rely on the internet to get most of my news, so I usually forget CNN, MSNBC, etc. even exist. Once I see a news story referenced on here, I can usually find it uploaded to YouTube pretty quickly, but I don't remember to check for new cable news content usually until someone reminds me of it.

Mountain Mule

(1,002 posts)
61. I too have felt frustrated
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 12:45 AM
Mar 2017

with threads like "OMG! I can't believe what they're saying right now on xyz!" Please, folks, give us a few sentences worth anyhow. I don't have cable or a TV myself. I live in a remote rural area where the cost of getting a network provider to come out and install a hook-up is prohibitive. I make do with streaming the Internet instead. But while Rachel may be excited about getting late breaking news out to everybody else, she's not too concerned about those of us who don't have Comcast for one reason or another. People who post about late breaking news would really help the flow of information get to the rest of us if they'd just give a little additional info. Amaryllis is right on, and I thank in advance everyone who heeds her request!

betsuni

(25,550 posts)
66. Yes please. It's like hearing only the punch line of a joke and not getting it ...
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 02:11 AM
Mar 2017

but reluctant to ask, so you just shrug and turn around and leave.

Also getting tired of bombshells, the other shoe dropping, things on fire, this is IT, and then nothing happens.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
69. I don't mind it; it's a DU thing.
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 07:02 AM
Mar 2017

The first posters usually ask or make jokes about the lack of context. Somebody eventually knows or the OP makes it more clear. It's amusing someone gets so excited about something like "wow Rachel just owned so and so!"

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
82. How might one do that, exactly?
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 02:13 PM
Mar 2017

How can the reader tell from the subject line if the post contains something useful or is simply a worthless call-out to some blip that someone glimpsed on TV?

 

vkkv

(3,384 posts)
79. Agreed !!! Far too many empty BULLSHIT posts that are pretty much CLICK-BAIT to nothing more
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 11:26 AM
Mar 2017

than a report of someone hearing something or feeling something.

Gotta get those "post numbers up" !! Sheesh.

It's a waste of time and it's weak.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
81. Yes! I never understood why someone would post a tease ...
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 02:10 PM
Mar 2017

...and put no information about it. I have TV, but I try to be considerate and post as much information as I can, even though I usually post on my phone.

It's just a courteous thing to do.

SharonClark

(10,014 posts)
90. Agree - tired of OPs with no context
Wed Mar 8, 2017, 03:52 PM
Mar 2017

The OP writer may feel instant gratification but many of us are just annoyed.

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