is what I was thinking of.

trump today than yesterday. And the numbers are growing more against what he stands for everyday.

In the rural conservative area I live in, Trump support it still sky high. They like his Muslim ban, they believe his tweets, etc

Some of them were prevented, to be sure, but the vast majority of them automatically voted for the winner by not giving a shit. That's what made it easy for the Republicans and their Russian bosses.

I've come to the conclusion that this has always been a problem in our country.

I finished binge watching Prohibition on Netflix. Prohibition seemed to be a combination of the south and the Midwest wanting to legislate morality, along with being a anti-immigrant, anti-big city movement. It created allot of chaos and it took the great depressions for people to wake up and vote in politicians that would repeal the amendment.

What the mid-west doesn't want to think about is that in twenty years the Ogallala aquifer will be depleted and their precious farms will be blown over the Atlantic. What really irritates me about their complacency is that, as long as they are their farms are fine, everything else is fine. It doesn't matter if the rest of the country is on fire, they vote repuke because that's just what they do. But when those farms start blowing away, they are going to cry to government to save them.

by nature a pretty heavy R group of people (all VERY socially conscious and good people).

The discussion turned to tax credit programs that had stimulated economic development in our community and state at large, and how it looked as though the "current administration" might change things and they likely won't be available moving forward.

No one even flinched, just nodded matter of factly. Same people who were groaning about "how hard it is to get a mortgage now!" (even though none of them are even remotely buying new homes at this point) after legislation was implemented to prevent bad mortgages after the Great Recession

We had a meeting the day after we got OBL. These are some PROUD AMERICAN types, we sing the national anthem and do the pledge every meeting. We were well into the meeting and it was like someone died, no one even mentioned getting OBL while we were eating and talking. So, at happy dollars, I mentioned OBL. A very short, tepid clap only because they knew they had to, and they HATED it.

I love these people, again really good people, but the R thing runs DEEP.

After some fulminating, one of the old guys burst out, "I don't care! For thirty years, this country has been going downhill, and the Congress knew what needed to be done but wouldn't do it! And we've had thousands of illegal immigrants swarming across the border ruining our country, and lazy people taking all kinds of welfare, and millions of babies killed through abortions, and everybody running around acting crazy doing whatever they felt like with sex and drugs, and now we have gay marriage which makes a mockery of my 55-year marriage with my wife! So now maybe all that can be stopped."

They are lost ... Walking Dead lost.

Cancer did. Death did. People who think that any of that crap he complained about is going to affect a marriage, his wife is looking for an easy way out.

That guy sees his 55-year marriage as an accomplishment, something he's proud of. At the same time, he's actively working to prevent other people from "achieving" the same thing.

I've met my boyfriend for the first time more than 10 years ago. We still can't marry today because Merkel has a feeling it's not right.

We still have a chance to "achieve" the same 55-year marriage thing if Merkel somehow changed her mind today, but it's getting more and more unlikely every day. Of course, it could be more like 65 years if it wasn't for ignorant people like Merkel or that f---ing "55 years married and never smoked weed!" republican.

I bet he has a sexless marriage. The only people that complain about other people having sex are the ones that aren't having any sex. He's jealous.

That way we can impose whatever we want on their kind.

Maybe make it age dependent

18-35 1:1

35-55 2:1

55 and above 3:1

if they keep eating at McDonalds everyday. When I read the article that's what I kept think about, the fact that these 70 year olds are eating at fast food every morning. It's just a question of which they will kill first - the country or themselves.

A better way to approach this is to severe the repuke bond between the old ones and the young ones. I'm not sure how that will happen, but these people need to start thinking outside of their tiny box.

Last edited Wed Mar 8, 2017, 03:55 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm 64, will live and die liberal. And I'm not the only--remember the 60-70's anti-war movement, the birth of environmental awareness on a large scale, and other changes.

How does education contribute to the divide? How about white male elitism? The guys at McDonalds got theirs, and probably don't give a crap about sharing. But if they love their country, then they need to have trump-Russia-Putin drilled into their teeny tiny brains until they get it. Not a single one of the country boys are going to like seeing the farms in Ohio going co-op under Russia rule. As for trump talking like a farm boy, really? Whichever Eb said that is not paying attention.

We all have to keep trying to change minds. I saw a good pair of questions the other day, that I am using when I can: Are you American? Or Republican?

They are dedicated to the idea that farmers drive the nation. It is such a BS sentiment. We'd do just fine without them, just take a little getting used to depending on smaller local farms. This is another reason I'm anti-agricultural subsidies.

The one guy was a barber, doesn't say much about how the others made their living. I should have said country boy, not farm boy, sorry.

That part of Ohio has been super repug for as long as I can remember. Ohio used to have Democratic reps, like Metzenbaum, John Glenn, Kucinich. I don't know what happened that turned Ohio into a red (neck) state.

When she visited, years later, almost nobody had the dialect she had grown up speaking. People kept remarking on her accent and asking her where she was from. She kept telling them, "I am from here. I was born here." They didn't know what to say after that.

I grew up near Cleveland, and now live in Marietta--opposite end of the state. Up north, we are kind of nasal, down south, there is a accent. Not exactly southern, but very different. They say youonz, plural for you are, I guess. And other things. I didn't change my pronunciation, but I'm not nasal any more.

"This is another reason I'm anti-agricultural subsidies..."

A five dollar potato would be fair to everyone.

...as would increasing the need to source increasingly expensive food from outside borders, and the removal of farmer's access to consistent income.

No worries though, food subsidies and parity pricing can be a difficult concept... especially to one who alleges "farmer elitism."

More like a $20 billion potato. That's what we are paying for subsidies.

I know taxes can be a difficult concept for a farmer elitist.

A mile wide TRUMP sign!

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http://www.9news.com/news/local/next/colorado-rancher-plows-mile-wide-trump-sign/413694210

They produce year round and product varied fruit and produce. Look in your supermarket tomato offerings, Canada is the largest tomato producer year round. Produce like basil is grown year round. Soon, ground farming will be extinct, my guess is within the next 20 years for vegetables and ground fruit and 30 years for tree produce, fruits and nuts.

Tomatoes and certain other types of produce lend themselves to Greenhouse production due to indeterminate production and vertical growth habits.

Nothing is cheaper and more efficient than growing cabbage in he ground. Same with most other types of produce. You would need a 1000 acre building to grow the same amount of cabbage as a 1000acre field.

And besides, by far the largest proportion of farmland in this country is devoted to row crops, mainly corn, wheat and soy beans. You are not growing them in greenhouse. And that hitech you mention is already here. My brother in law rides in a tractor. Literally, because the tractor drives itself. It figures out the most efficient route through the field and takes off with minimal input from the driver. Modern irrigation can even irrigated a field based on the soil type of the part of the field being watered.

Most of the people living in these rural areas are not farmers. They may have a few acres, but chances are that they work at the feed store or the Walmart. Their preachers have convinced them the live they live is the model life that their god wants everyone living and they vote for people they think will keep that life going.

They were fooled this time but their preachers will not allow them to think that way.

turnover cycles. Grow towers can be made as tall as the world's tallest building because they don't need sunlight. There are companies already making greens in grow towers, the seedling to harvest time is something like one week. The one limit to grow tower efficiency is cheap energy, as the cost per BTU drops, grow towers become more efficient, without energy factored in, they are now 4x more efficient than a field. The correct technical term is vertical farms. A number of large companies have build skyscrapers for Rev 1 and Rev 2 efficiency evaluations.

I admit that I don't know about cabbage, you pulled up a specific vegetable, but realize that grow towers can use soil as well as nutrient baths. I would assume that cabbage can be grown since Bob lettuce is now grown, the limitation may be on the cost side since Bob lettuce brings more money than cabbage does.

Farmers have very tight margins. The cost of our food if we were to grow it in buildings would be astronomical. At the end of the day, farmland is cheap.

I don't need to look up any of the methods you suggested because I am familiar with them. They work for a few limited types of produts that have very high margins for the grower. But they will never be practical for most types of produce, not even discussing row crops like corn wheat and soy beans.

But back to the subject of this thread, even if your theory were true, they would still be run by reactionary Rural people.

Cover about 60% of vegetable and fruit isles now, and the technology is in it's infancy. The only produce not covered are root vegetables, west and corn, but that's just a matter of current focus. The high turn rates that vertical farms produce reduce the cost per square foot, add in higher yields and more consistent yields and it becomes easy to see the death of most or all field based farming within the next 40 years. An example is that a 4 acre vertical strawberry farm can work out to 1200 acres of producing area, turning over strawberries in that space 3 to 6 times per year, there is no way that a field farmer can compete with turn rates like that once energy costs drop to where they are anticipated to go with new energy technologies. Vegetables like beans, spinach, green of all types, celery, broccoli, sprouts, herbs are ideal for vertical farms and large companies like Birdseye and big grocery chains in Europe already have working facilities.

If we're right, and I believe we are, then we can't let these people stand in our way. Look what they've done...Reagan, Bush 43, and now Trump. Face it some folks shouldn't have the right to vote.

That's not a statement I would ever have thought I'd see on DU.

It won't work for a variety of obvious reasons, but these people live in such a different world. I actually live among them, but I choose to stay aware of what is going on outside of Trumpsville. They don't. They don't care what's going on in L.A. or NYC or Chicago. They just don't care. Those places are a foreign country to them.

A western country and an eastern country, one liberal and the other, other (whatever that is). The country is very divided and the conservative part has shown resiliency in infesting a good portion of their children and grandchildren. The West Coast and near West, except for Utah are becoming more liberal (even if still red), the country should split top to bottom somewhere west of the Mississippi, with the western 25 states becoming the liberal country - people would have five years to move to their country of choice, with financial help for those that need it. Once divided, the two countries can set up their own cultures, with limited engagement with eachother. People that choose to stay in a country do so with the realization that it's politics may not be to their liking. To keep a country politically pure, parties that violate the national charter (i.e., no conservative parties in the liberal country and vise versa for the conservative country).

the planet, so I guess we're even.

They care more about preserving their white, rural, evangelical Christian culture than anything else, and some of them would probably be willing to see the country destroyed by a lunatic as long as he appears to be fighting for their goals.

I'm not religious & don't even have a religion. I'm a democrat. Yes, there are many many Republicans where I live, but I'm still here and voting against them. Just because someone loves living in the country does not mean they are a bigot. Maybe they just don't like living in the city. None of my children grew up to be Republicans. - or Christian.

Why should someone who lives in a town of 1500 get more of a say in politics than someone who lives in a city of 12,000,000? I live in Los Angeles. That's a great city. I go to other large cities like Washington DC, Atlanta, Denver, Chicago, Detroit. Would I visit Plains, Georgia, or Waco, Texas, or Wasilla, Alaska? Not on a bet!

I don't want to live in a theocracy where our most important decisions are made by the clergy. I don't want to live in a country where conservatives think they work harder than liberals do. We have jobs too, damn it! No, we're not paid protesters. I don't want to live in a country run by conspiracy theories and AM hate radio because that's all small towns have to listen to.

Small towns are small for a reason: nobody wants to go there! Big cities are melting pots. We can't let the small towns dictate how large and diverse major metropolitan areas like Los Angeles and San Francisco live their lives. Just because you're miserable don't drag us down with you!

Blanket assumptions and generalizations about all people based on where they live is as insulting as some of the shit right wingers say.

I'm a rural Texan. I live in the country. I've traveled abroad. I've seen the pyramids. I've seen the Nile. I've lived overseas in more than one place. I'm not religious . I have a bisexual daughter. I have a Muslim daughter. I have a daughter who is married to a Jew. My Atheist son married a Latina.

Attacking all people who live in rural areas & stereotyping is obnoxious and toxic. It sounds like something many right wing people say about Chicago. *rolls eyes*

Yes I agree something is wrong with the electoral voting system, but attacking people just based on the fact that you make assumptions about all people based on where they come from is just not productive or helpful at all IMO.

I do realize there are sane, worldly people living in rural areas.

I'm older and have a friend older than me. She is deaf and going blind. She is also rural. I told her to get offline because her eyes are going. She said " I will fight against this Presidency with my last breath." So, yeah some of us are fighting the battle

Move to a small town when they retire. We got tired of traffic and fast pace of life.

Spent 10 yrs in conservative area in mountains, i loved it but hubby wanted to come back closer to kids. Now we live in liberal small town.

Both areas I have worked on campaigns.

The one thing i found the same in small towns is if anything happens, bad storm, you need a ride, people are there for you.

I think many people like a slower pace of living.

Really interesting that they didn't interview anyone from the college, one of the most liberal in the state - hell probably entire region. It's Quaker, so very anti-war, pro-progressive movements, pro-choice, pro-women, VERY pro-LBGT, etc.


Wilmington (all of Clinton County) is Republican redneck county. I was born one county over (as was my husband) and it's even more country:

1) My parents are liberals
2) My inlaws are liberals
3) My husband and I have always been liberals

By and large, the people there are not educated. They just aren't. They do not watch the news, they do not travel to places other than Gatlinburg or Myrtle Beach. They do not have passports. They have a bunch of kids, ride ATVs, build decks and drink beer for fun. That is life there, they like it and can't imagine living "close to other people in a dirty city."

These towns are also poor - small government coffers. Like everywhere else, the rich, "liberal elite" cities pay for everything.

I had a blast at college but I graduated and that was that. I couldn't wait to get out of rural America. Neither my husband or I even like to go back to visit our parents. We love seeing them, but we feel like fish out of water in the town where we grew up. We don't fit it and we know it - we have nothing in common with anyone there anymore.

I just don't believe a Democrat is ever going to win Clinton or Highland or Fayette of Adams county ever again. When the electorate is uninformed and proud of it, there's no fight there.

Now all this said, I went to graduate school at a MUCH larger and very conservative religious university in a city and that was something else too...

I think that was at Wilmington College. The people in that area seemed pretty normal to me. My parents would stop at "Duff's Smorgasbord" later, and about the only unusual spectacle at that place was the HUGE size of some of the patrons.

A few years later, when I could drive, I traveled to Paint Creek Lake to camp and fish. That was in Highland County, I think. It reminded me of Deliverance (without actual violence or rape)! I didn't fear anyone there, but my friend was scared because of the unfriendly glaring we encountered at places like a small gas station and a bait shop. Perhaps some of the locals thought we sounded like "Yankees" or something, but we were from the Dayton area not too far away! Another odd thing... they didn't seem to want to point at anything! I'm aware that pointing at people can be considered rude, but the locals seemed to wave their arms with such a wide sweep (when we asked for directions) that we honestly couldn't tell where they were pointing! Even when I asked them if we should take the left or right fork in a road, they'd do the same sweeping motion that encompassed both sides and say something like, "It's over that way!" (Maybe they didn't know the right answer?)

Then a few years after that, I saw an article in the Dayton Daily News about that area. It was from 1992 because it was about the upcoming Presidential election between Bush Sr. and Clinton. If I remember correctly, there was barely a majority of them who knew that Bush was President and MOST of them hadn't heard of Clinton at all!

I have lived in small towns and believe me, not all their "values" are something to be proud of

but I think that the 'non-voters' is where you should look to educate into voting.... my opinion...much bigger playing field. BIGGY, BIGGY.

and check your assumptions. I live in rural East Texas, the Bible belt. I own a 50 acre ranch. I voted for Bernie and then for Hillary. I'm a Buddhist, as are my neighbors down the road. We have a vibrant Dem party in my county and 5 or 6 more vibrant Dem groups in other parts of east Texas.

Don't assume that all rural people are red neck hayseeds. While many are, not all of us are. Assuming that all rural people are dummies is not much different than white supremacists assuming that all AAs are degenerate criminals. Or all misogynists assuming that women are up to no good and need to be controlled.

Go beyond your assumptions.

I'm appalled and insulted by some of the sentiments I see here. Not all people who choose to live in the country are rethuglican idiots. I've lived in Cincinnati, Minneapolis, and Louisville. Always hated the traffic, noise, and lack of privacy. I couldn't have my big gardens or menagerie of animals. When I'm totally pissed off about the news, I can go out and pull weeds, or play with my dogs. There is a calmness and sanity here at my little cabin in the woods. At least for me. And I still have the internets!

One of my mom's favorite sayings was, "Don't bite off your nose to spite your face." I don't see exclusion, derision, and outright hatred of Trump voters as much different than the Muslim ban. It's not going to win friends and influence enemies. Its certainly not going to win elections.