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Flint knapping - a lost art, why? (Original Post) jpak Mar 2017 OP
And what of lawn off-getting? johnp3907 Mar 2017 #1
Why make them? DURHAM D Mar 2017 #2
They teach it at our local University Greybnk48 Mar 2017 #3
Youve never met my grandchildren. democrank Mar 2017 #4
I treasure that my parents taught me to sew eleny Mar 2017 #13
If your using black powder flintlocks you'll need to still knap.... Historic NY Mar 2017 #5
Black Power Flintlocks? jpak Mar 2017 #6
LOL..... Historic NY Mar 2017 #9
I have to say, I love the photos from that day. yardwork Mar 2017 #11
No it isn't. L. Coyote Mar 2017 #7
I giggle at people in row-boats... LanternWaste Mar 2017 #8
The fletching and hafting unions ruined it for everyone. bluedigger Mar 2017 #10
There are numerous flint-knappers. H2O Man Mar 2017 #12
Them and their protruding chins and no occipital buns. Orsino Mar 2017 #14
No need. Igel Mar 2017 #15
I named my son Cooper n/t Greybnk48 Mar 2017 #16

johnp3907

(3,732 posts)
1. And what of lawn off-getting?
Thu Mar 16, 2017, 10:52 AM
Mar 2017

These kids today are terrible at it, no matter how many times I tell them.

democrank

(11,103 posts)
4. Youve never met my grandchildren.
Thu Mar 16, 2017, 11:17 AM
Mar 2017

As soon as they could hold a hammer, I gave each of my four grandchildren, now ages 6-17, a toolbox filled with mostly antique tools. I`ve taught them the value of a ball of good cotton twine, a whetstone, shims, scrap metal, wood scraps. They know to save scraps of wire, wood, rope, anything that can be used again.

They may kid me about being lo-tech, but I know they treasure what they`ve been given....my late partner`s favorite hammer, a beautiful, cast iron crow bar, a trusty jackknife, a 5-gallon bucket of assorted hardware, even a stubby old carpenter`s pencil from the 40s.

One of the most important things in the world to me was having them learn, from this old grandmother, how to make something out of nothing, how to respect the work people do with their hands, how the simplest thing (a nail, a 3-inch block of wood, a chain link) can sometimes be exactly what you really, really, want.

I think people that know about old crafts and trades and how to utilize them are some of the luckiest people in the world. Also, they`re the ones to call if you`re in a fix-it jam and don`t have a lot of money.

Bet your arrow heads are interesting.



eleny

(46,166 posts)
13. I treasure that my parents taught me to sew
Thu Mar 16, 2017, 01:31 PM
Mar 2017

Lately, it's been one mending job after another around here. And rehemming blue jeans for my husband. In between I do some small favorite things like making zippered pouches for the kids at Halloween. Sometimes you just have to sew something orange.

So much would go to the landfill if they couldn't get mended. It's a delight to sit and concentrate on sewing one stitch after another either by hand or machine.

Nuff said.

Historic NY

(37,453 posts)
5. If your using black powder flintlocks you'll need to still knap....
Thu Mar 16, 2017, 11:26 AM
Mar 2017

if not you can buy (get this) originals knapped back in the 1700s . I used to find arrow head drops around town. We do have a few of the oldest ones ever found in the east, in local collection. I have to knap a couple flints ever so often, usually amber, for one of my foreign smooth bores. I don't have any antler tools only 18th century equivalents.

Along the Hudson River one can still find flint nodules that were used as ships ballast, I have a couple I use for door stops.

yardwork

(61,703 posts)
11. I have to say, I love the photos from that day.
Thu Mar 16, 2017, 12:04 PM
Mar 2017

Yes, I know. People shouldn't wave guns around. It could have ended in tragedy.

But it didn't.

And the faces of the old white guys.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
8. I giggle at people in row-boats...
Thu Mar 16, 2017, 11:42 AM
Mar 2017

I point and giggle at people in row-boats... have they never heard of outboard motors, jet airplanes and Uber?

bluedigger

(17,087 posts)
10. The fletching and hafting unions ruined it for everyone.
Thu Mar 16, 2017, 11:58 AM
Mar 2017

And don't even get me started on those shafters.

H2O Man

(73,605 posts)
12. There are numerous flint-knappers.
Thu Mar 16, 2017, 12:04 PM
Mar 2017

Since it's harder to sell recently made artifacts, fewer people pursue the art.

Igel

(35,356 posts)
15. No need.
Thu Mar 16, 2017, 04:12 PM
Mar 2017

What happens though is that things are declared unnecessary, and then when they are the objection is, "But nobody does that any more!"

Flint knapping isn't a skill that most need to know. Yet some know it. It's not a lost art. And yet the comparison is specious.

I am told to give feedback to students. I write. Fast. Cursive is fast writing. That's why it exists. That's why it's existed for 3500 years.

But my students usually can't read it because they were taught only print. Why? Because it takes time to teach cursive and it's more important to get them ready for a test. It saves time in 3rd grade and then it's a kind of time tax for the rest of their lives and an impediment to reading certain things. It's surely a way to cut them off from older handwritten materials. Then again, we're so much superior to people just 40 years ago in every way. Except for all the things we can't do and less self-discipline that we expect from ourselves and others (except for modish, fashionable things of an ideological bent, but even then we're many teachers and many masters, with all the pro cons that come with that set of attitudes).

It's the same for spelling. They aren't taught to spell. Machines can take over that job. Then when the machines fale, thay half now eyediah hough two spell. Since reading is for the purpose of getting a job, they read only things that interest them at the moment--meaning that things that might interest them are omitted. Perhaps they find them eventually. Perhaps not. If Einstein had never been exposed to things beyond what were necessary, he'd have been a damned good patent clerk, full stop.

"But nobody needs to do that now!" they say, not because it's true but because it means they then can't be held responsible. It's second only to, "When am I ever going to need this?" as a justification for indolence and intellectual sloth. My answer is, "If you don't know it, probably never. I tutored somebody in reading, he was at the 3rd grade level. Never needed it. Got a job working for an electrician. Could read enough. He watched guys his age read the manuals and take the electrician's tests, so they became his boss. He was okay. Then he was 35, his girl in 3rd grade was reading things he couldn't, and he realized that a guy he trained was appointed his boss, and he'd had the same job for over 15 years and had peaked. He needed to take the apprentice test, but couldn't read the manual. He'd never needed to know how to read above a the 2:2 level reading tests put him at. Until he was 35."

"When am I ever going to need to know about acids and bases?" When you're cleaning your pool with muriatic acid, when you get ammonia in your eye, then it's good to know about neutralization reactions. Stoichiometry? It's all ratios. "Hey, I doubled the flour in this recipe and it came out wrong." "Did you double the rest of the ingredients?" "Huh?" Law of conservation of energy? "Don't need that. But look at this pill, you put it in your gas tank and it triples the miles per gallon."

Strictly speaking, the same holds for civics. There are people to handle that for them. They can always look up what they need to know. (Yeah, if they know that it exists and what it's called. It explains why so many people get so many things wrong. Who knew that the alternative minimum tax was a write-off against income to keep the rich from having to pay taxes?)

And thinking.

And actual knowledge. Since what you know is all there is, it makes sense that PhDs in chemistry work at a 12th grade level when it comes to history; and brilliant historians think at a high school level in chemistry. There is no all-purpose "critical thinking" skill set. No knowledge, no thinking.

It's like a lot of other skills. If we had alternate skills that replaced them, it would be different. But the alternate skill for spelling is slacking off and the alternate skill for cursive is getting ready for another test that doesn't show what everything thinks it shows. Now, in a way interdependence has rendered some skills unnecessary. We specialize, and have since 5000 BC. Still, every skill is a way of not being held hostage. If you can grow food, "food deserts" are what your neighbors suffer from. If you can sing in tune, you're not dependent on commercialized singers and following the herd. "Hey, this is cool!" Why? Because somebody else said so, and you outsourced your aesthetics. Until the market is hyperfragmented, but then either prices go up to support the professionals we need to pay to do what everybody used to do, or the professionals have day jobs.

The upside is that a lot of kids learn these skills anyway.

The downside is that they're taught by parents who value these skills or by teachers who know their kids will do well on the standardized tests anyway. Those parents who don't value them or don't know them don't teach them, and at-risk kids disproportionately not taught them. There's a strong ethnic and class skew in this. Often those who learn the skills are those who need them the least.

Which is why the latest take I've heard on why we don't need some of these skills is because they're elitist or classist or evaluating people on the basis of them is racist. Which is just another way of justifying not learning them, but more pernicious because it says they shouldn't be taught. What's elitist isn't not teaching them to the lower SES students, what's elitist is the idea that anybody should know them. Instead, others should make sure that these skills aren't needed. To not be racist and classist, I have to pay the tax for what others haven't learned.

Then again, I also make my own soap (or buy special, hypoallergenic soap). I grow what food I can. And I'm getting a grip on 7th position on violin and working on springing arpeggios so that I can play even more fun stuff. And in so doing, meet with others and have fun without outsourcing everything to somebody else.

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